2A? LOL, no. You no get 2A in new Merica, comrade

[Superman]

Regulations.gov

www.regulations.gov

 

[Djfan]

No cliff notes?

 

[Steelr4evr]

The ATF needs dissolved! Hell,half of the federal government needs to be gone.


If anyone needs disarmed it's them. Give them a flintlock pistol.

 

[Steeltime]

I read a significant part of the proposed amendment and understood the vast majority. That makes me different than 95% of the people in Congress.

The rule change is to restrict the production and sale of key parts of firearms, mainly the frame, barrel, and trigger mechanism, by anybody other than a licensed gun manufacturer and requiring a background check for such parts, with a serial number for each part manufactured and sold. The concern as I understand it is that some very expensive modern 3D printers can make a frame or barrel with an extremely crude single nail or single screw trigger, without any serial number. Politicians call that a "ghost gun" because to them it appears like magic.

So how big a deal are these "ghost guns"? The ATF cites the following instances where a homemade or manufactured gun was used in a serious crime:

• In July 2020, an individual who was prohibited from possessing guns allegedly murdered two people in Pennsylvania using a homemade 9mm handgun.
• In November 2019, a 16-year-old shot five of his classmates at Saugus High School in California—two of them fatally—using a homemade handgun, before fatally shooting himself.
• In August 2019, a shooter used a homemade gun kit to build a .223-caliber firearm that he later used to fire 41 shots in 32 seconds in a bar in Dayton, Ohio, shooting 26 people and killing nine.
• In 2017, in Northern California, a man prohibited from possessing firearms ordered kits to build AR-15-style rifles. On November 13, he initiated a series of shootings that began with fatally shooting his wife at home, followed by a rampage the next day during which he fired at multiple people in several different locations, including an elementary school, killing five people and injuring dozens more.
• In 2013, a shooter opened fire in Santa Monica, California, shooting 100 rounds, killing five people, and injuring several others at a community college using a homemade AR-15 rifle. Reporting indicates the shooter had previously tried to purchase a firearm from a licensed gun dealer and failed a background check, potentially indicating why he opted to order parts to build a gun instead.

So which of these cases actually involved a ghost gun? The first shooting involved a polymer receiver that the defendant purchased from a manufacturer, when he was ineligible to purchase a firearm due to a felony conviction. That qualifies.

The second claim is false. The kid took one of his dad's semi-automatics and did not make a gun or construct a gun. The ghost gun claim is false.

Saugus High School shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The third shooting involved use of an AR-style pistol, where the shooter has a wrist brace for the weapon. The gun was purchased legally and delivered to a licensed FFL dealer in Dayton, where the shooter picked it up. Once again, the "ghost gun" claim is false. Firearm purchases of this type happen thousands of times per day, and happen whenever a weapon is purchased from out-of-state. The buyer has to pass the background check and this guy passed.

2019 Dayton shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The fourth shooting was in California and the police reported that the gunman used a "self-assembled AR-15." At the time, California had serious limitations on AR rifles, including a limit of 10 rounds. Probably qualifies as a "ghost gun." Oh, and California also had laws against shooting people, I think. Have to check on that.

Rancho Tehama Reserve shootings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The fifth and final example involved the shooter putting together parts for an AR-15 though he apparently revised ("milled") some of the parts to make the weapon. The buyer would not have passed a background check and in fact apparently tried to purchase an AR and was turned down, so this qualifies as a "ghost gun," though with modifications.

2013 Santa Monica shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So the legislation is aimed at three shootings over the past eight years, with the terrible result of more than 25 people shot and 12 people murdered.

Or what those in law enforcement term "a long weekend in Chicago."

 

[Steelworth]

No cliff notes?

Yeah, quick little summation por favor, señor?

 

[Steeltime]

Yeah, quick little summation por favor, señor?

It's not a bill, and instead a "rule change" for ATF regulations governing firearms. Previously, "firearms" was defined as "any weapon, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosive and a firearm muffler or firearm silencer, any frame or receiver for such weapon.” While the ATF classifies the lower receiver of the AR-15 rifle as a “frame or receiver,” courts read the regulatory definition to mean that the lower portion of the AR-15 is not a “frame or receiver” because it only provides housing for the hammer and firing mechanism, but not the bolt or breechblock.

The change to the regulations (not the law - Congress delegates massive amounts of authority to regulatory agencies, including the EPA, OSHA, and ATF) would "amend ATF's regulations to clarify the definition of “firearm” and to provide a more comprehensive definition of “frame or receiver” so that those definitions more accurately reflect firearm configurations not explicitly captured under the existing definitions," that is, to include all frames or receivers capable of being converted or used as part of a conversion to a device which will expel a projectile by means of an explosive charge. Again, the simple fact is that this is not a significant issue as my research and the data cited by the ATF in recommending the rule change showed three instances of a ghost gun used in a mass shooting over the past eight years, with 12 fatalities and approximately 25 shooting victims in eight years.

Oops, actually 5 killed and at least 47 wound in shootings in Chicago ... this past weekend.

Weekend Violence

chicago.cbslocal.com

This is a make-believe issue designed to give the ATF much broader subpoena and confiscation power, since now they can get a warrant based on a declaration about a guy saying he has the tools to make a receiver or a barrel together with a search of the guy's browsing history showing any indication he looked at making a receiver or barrel, i.e., a "firearm" according to the new AFT rules.

 

[DBS1970]

Gee I remember there is a document somewhere that requires laws to be made by the legislature and signed by the president prior to being implemented not pronounced by the fiat of a Federal Dalek.

 

[Djfan]

Gee I remember there is a document somewhere that requires laws to be made by the legislature and signed by the president prior to being implemented not pronounced by the fiat of a Federal Dalek.

Sooner or later, this kind of nonsense is going to put an end to our union.

 

[warriors42]

Join your sheriff's posse or reserves. Get sworn in, get a badge. Get qualified with every weapon you own that could be in question and go on with your life. The only weapons you are allowed to carry on duty is the one's you qualify with. We are allowed to qualify with as many different firearms as we want. including AR 15, AK47, AR platform shotguns, Hand guns with large capacity magazines ect.

On top of protecting my guns I truly enjoy working with our sheriff's dept, It's not just doing ride a-longs or working at the county jail, it's being in the parades working ball games and an overall feeling of satisfaction of doing something positive for your community. I put in a few hours a month at my leisure, or If I get a call from a deputy to help go arrest someone. Small sacrifice to protect your 2A and your community.

Also as a perk we don't pay for our concealed carry permits and get to purchase things at LEO only stores.

 

[DBS1970]

Join your sheriff's posse or reserves. Get sworn in, get a badge. Get qualified with every weapon you own that could be in question and go on with your life. The only weapons you are allowed to carry on duty is the one's you qualify with. We are allowed to qualify with as many different firearms as we want. including AR 15, AK47, AR platform shotguns, Hand guns with large capacity magazines ect.

On top of protecting my guns I truly enjoy working with our sheriff's dept, It's not just doing ride a-longs or working at the county jail, it's being in the parades working ball games and an overall feeling of satisfaction of doing something positive for your community. I put in a few hours a month at my leisure, or If I get a call from a deputy to help go arrest someone. Small sacrifice to protect your 2A and your community.

Also as a perk we don't pay for our concealed carry permits and get to purchase things at LEO only stores.

How about no.

How about we the citizens simply tell the government and its bureaucrats that we will except no further infringement upon our rights And if they continue attempting to do so there will be a great deal of violence and bloodshed.

 

[warriors42]

How about no.

How about we the citizens simply tell the government and its bureaucrats that we will except no further infringement upon our rights And if they continue attempting to do so there will be a great deal of violence and bloodshed.

That is a great idea, the only problem is we have become a nation of *****'s as far as the men in this country. I also belong to a group that is nothing but conservative's that want to stand and support our constitution. guess what; the only people that will show up are those of us about to draw or are already drawing SSI. you can't get the younger generation to give up five minutes on their cell phone let alone stand up and fight for our constitution. they are more worried about losing their job, house, car, beer, weed and on and on then they are worried about losing their freedom.

We live in a country where people won't talk in front of their TV or they cover the camera on their laptop. Most conservatives wont say what they think over a cell phone or post it on a message board out of fear of being targeted especially if you are a conservative white male. So who are you gonna get to tell the government what we will or will not accept hell it's just been proven that you can't even vote them out. This government will do what it wants when it wants and they are not shy about coming right out and telling you that. The United States government no longer works for the American people they rule them.

Would I stand next to you and fight? you bet your *** I would, but how long will a 60 year old with a knee replacement actually last in a war against a younger better armed enemy.

 

[Steelworth]

how long will a 60 year old with a knee replacement actually last in a war against a younger better armed enemy.

Better armed enemy? You mean this most recent generation's snowflakes? A soy latte and smartphone is about all I see them being armed with. There's Antifa & BLM of course, but they've shown to be the snowflakes with helmets, masks and nightsticks that can break windows, burn buildings, loot and shriek real loud.

What happened when one armed 17-year-old went up against them?

 

[warriors42]

Better armed enemy? You mean this most recent generation's snowflakes? A soy latte and smartphone is about all I see them being armed with. There's Antifa & BLM of course, but they've shown to be the snowflakes with helmets, masks and nightsticks that can break windows, burn buildings, loot and shriek real loud.

What happened when one armed 17-year-old went up against them?

No I mean the 50 or 60 percent of the military and police agency's that is going to blindly follow this screwed up corrupt thing we call a government

 

[Steelworth]

No I mean the 50 or 60 percent of the military and police agency's that is going to blindly follow this screwed up corrupt thing we call a government

Gotcha. Point taken, my mistake. That's a scary thought. Really hope it doesn't end up being that high of a percent.

 

[Booted]

Gotcha. Point taken, my mistake. That's a scary thought. Really hope it doesn't end up being that high of a percent.

I'd be surprised if it was that low of a %

 

[Djfan]

I'd be surprised if it was that low of a %

I agree. Most military and LE professionals do what they do because they are law abiding patriots. They don't share the idiotic views of the woke globalists.

They are the hope of the rest of us.

 

[DBS1970]

That is a great idea, the only problem is we have become a nation of *****'s as far as the men in this country. I also belong to a group that is nothing but conservative's that want to stand and support our constitution. guess what; the only people that will show up are those of us about to draw or are already drawing SSI. you can't get the younger generation to give up five minutes on their cell phone let alone stand up and fight for our constitution. they are more worried about losing their job, house, car, beer, weed and on and on then they are worried about losing their freedom.

We live in a country where people won't talk in front of their TV or they cover the camera on their laptop. Most conservatives wont say what they think over a cell phone or post it on a message board out of fear of being targeted especially if you are a conservative white male. So who are you gonna get to tell the government what we will or will not accept hell it's just been proven that you can't even vote them out. This government will do what it wants when it wants and they are not shy about coming right out and telling you that. The United States government no longer works for the American people they rule them.

Would I stand next to you and fight? you bet your *** I would, but how long will a 60 year old with a knee replacement actually last in a war against a younger better armed enemy.

Correlation of forces is in our favor. There are way more of us then there are of them. Plus we are the ones that produce everything if we stop feeding the government it has no way to make war against us.

 

[Booted]

I agree. Most military and LE professionals do what they do because they are law abiding patriots. They don't share the idiotic views of the woke globalists.

They are the hope of the rest of us.

You misunderstood what I wrote. Warrior said 50 - 60% of military would blindly follow unconstitutional orders. SW said he hopes it's not that high of a %. I said I'd be surprised if it was that low of a percent. Meaning I think 75 - 90% would blindly follow given orders.

 

[Steeltime]

You misunderstood what I wrote. Warrior said 50 - 60% of military would blindly follow unconstitutional orders. SW said he hopes it's not that high of a %. I'd said I be surprised if it was that low of a percent. Meaning I think 75 - 90% would blindly follow given orders.

Ten years ago, I would have disagreed with your premise. After watching what the NSA and FBI did to Trump, Cohen, Papadopoulos, and the timid to no "punishment" imposed on Kevin Clinesmith (who admitted to forging a document to get a warrant against Trump staff), Lisa Page, Peter Stryzk, Andrew McCabe, James Comey, Brennan, James Clapper, etc., I no longer have such optimism.

 

[Steelworth]

You misunderstood what I wrote. Warrior said 50 - 60% of military would blindly follow unconstitutional orders. SW said he hopes it's not that high of a %. I'd said I be surprised if it was that low of a percent. Meaning I think 75 - 90% would blindly follow given orders.

I knew what you meant, and it's a subject I hate to think about.

It'd be nice to hear from ex-military (or active military) like Ogre or Sarge on this, but I guess if the boots on the ground have it ingrained in them to follow orders, this is a potentially really scary premise. I'd like to believe they'd follow the Constitution of the United States of America and what they know to be right, but you just don't know in this crazy new world.

 

[Djfan]

You misunderstood what I wrote. Warrior said 50 - 60% of military would blindly follow unconstitutional orders. SW said he hopes it's not that high of a %. I'd said I be surprised if it was that low of a percent. Meaning I think 75 - 90% would blindly follow given orders.

I did misunderstand. However, I disagree with you. I hope you are wrong, too.

 

[Booted]

I did misunderstand. However, I disagree with you. I hope you are wrong, too.

Me also.

 

[wig]

they cover the camera on their laptop.

You damn well BETTER! Not even kidding here.