Catholics are not Christians????

[Gareth]

So,

Help a poor heathen out. I was at friends house tonight and my buddy's girl made a statement that Catholicism predates Christianity.

So, me being a little buzzed and hanging with a good Jewish friend stated my knowledge of the History of the world.

I stated:

WTF, Catholicism is a sect of Christianity.

To which she told me of her degrees in religious history and assured me that she had reference books that would confirm her point of view.


I said, ok lets look at history for a moment.

So there were Romans and there were Jews.....the Romans believed in many gods, the Jews believed in one God....the Romans were more powerful but they found ways to co-exist.

Then Jesus Christ was born.

People realized he was special......they started following him.

They became known as Christians.

The Romans considered them a general pain in the *** and started feeding them to teh lions and crucifying them.

The Jews stepped back said "I don't know those crazy crackas"...and placed 20 Denaris on the Lion in round 1.


So, anyhow....the followers of Christ were, as I understand, Christians.


I admit, I am a heathen with limited education and no religious degrees.

How could the Catholics, who believe in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior pre-date Christianity which started while he still lived?

 

[CoolieMan]

***** be crazy

 

[Djfan]

There is so much here, that it would be hard to put on a board. Just understand that the anti-catholic crowd like to point out that many of the practices and many of the "saints" were very, very much like pagan realities. While this doesn't make it wrong, it is that "smoking gun" that could be something other than it is.

I'm an ex Catholic, but not an anti. The situation just wasn't for me. So, I get the pro-catholic push from my family, and the anti from some of my more "informed" church friends. I personally think that the whole issue is a red herring. I know some people who are very close to God in the Catholic church, and some in other churches. I know some people who are not even close to being reconciled to God in the Catholic church, and some who are not close to being reconciled to God in other churches.

Don't let it distract you. It's a non-issue if you ask me.

 

[JupiterBnG]

There's a reason why it's called CHRISTianity. Catholicism didn't emerge until later.

 

[CoolieMan]

I don't understand why other religions seem to focus on what the Catholics do and believe. When I was in Elementary school a buddy used to come in all the time and say **** that his Baptist sunday school teacher told them about Catholics and how wrong we were....my Priest and Sunday school teachers NEVER talked about Baptists or any other religion....

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I don't understand why other religions seem to focus on what the Catholics do and believe. When I was in Elementary school a buddy used to come in all the time and say **** that his Baptist sunday school teacher told them about Catholics and how wrong we were....my Priest and Sunday school teachers NEVER talked about Baptists or any other religion....

When a Baptist needs an exorcism they gotto go get a priest.

 

[EdReed4Prez]

Degrees in religious history... Must be a huge job market there.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

How could the Catholics, who believe in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior pre-date Christianity which started while he still lived?

Your bud's girl is wrong.
I am not Catholic but I am Lutheran which is sort of like Catholic Lite.
Catholics regard the apostle Peter, i.e. St. Peter, as the first Pope. That can't very well come before the time of Christ then, could it?
In laymen's terms, Christianity came from Judaism. Jesus Himself was a Jew. Basically at the time the people who followed Jesus Christ became Christians. The people who followed the Pharisees and Sadducees (leaders of the Jewish religion at the time who did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God because He was encroaching on their deal and making them look bad on a number of fronts) became the modern Jewish religion, who believe in the same God but not that Jesus was the Son of God. They are still waiting for Him to come. /Readers Digest version.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

Your bud's girl is wrong.
I am not Catholic but I am Lutheran which is sort of like Catholic Lite.
Catholics regard the apostle Peter, i.e. St. Peter, as the first Pope. That can't very well come before the time of Christ then, could it?
In laymen's terms, Christianity came from Judaism. Jesus Himself was a Jew. Basically at the time the people who followed Jesus Christ became Christians. The people who followed the Pharisees and Sadducees (leaders of the Jewish religion at the time who did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God because He was encroaching on their deal and making them look bad on a number of fronts) became the modern Jewish religion, who believe in the same God but not that Jesus was the Son of God. They are still waiting for Him to come. /Readers Digest version.

 

[Gareth]

BTW, I live in a town with two colleges....so most people seem to possess some sort of useless degree.

I was hanging at teh time with a 4 year history major who works landscaping and setting up bounce houses, a gentleman with a masters in sports management or something like that who works as a bartender, and the girl who has a 4 year degree in some sort of religious history.....and sells granite.

I was the only person without a degree.....as is quite often in this town, but I generally do well at debating on any variety of topics.

It's a great town altogether....small town chock full of rich young hot chicks being bilked out of their parents money to get worthless pieces of paper.

I love it here.

 

[Confluence]

So,

Help a poor heathen out. I was at friends house tonight and my buddy's girl made a statement that Catholicism predates Christianity.

So, me being a little buzzed and hanging with a good Jewish friend stated my knowledge of the History of the world.

I stated:

WTF, Catholicism is a sect of Christianity.

To which she told me of her degrees in religious history and assured me that she had reference books that would confirm her point of view.


I said, ok lets look at history for a moment.

So there were Romans and there were Jews.....the Romans believed in many gods, the Jews believed in one God....the Romans were more powerful but they found ways to co-exist.

Then Jesus Christ was born.

People realized he was special......they started following him.

They became known as Christians.

The Romans considered them a general pain in the *** and started feeding them to teh lions and crucifying them.

The Jews stepped back said "I don't know those crazy crackas"...and placed 20 Denaris on the Lion in round 1.


So, anyhow....the followers of Christ were, as I understand, Christians.


I admit, I am a heathen with limited education and no religious degrees.

How could the Catholics, who believe in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior pre-date Christianity which started while he still lived?

And yet you ask here? I'm sure you'll get a better answer here than you would find on the google.

 

[Stewey]

"Catholic" simply means universal...the term first used by St. Ignatius in 107 A.D.

Around the year A.D. 107, a bishop, St. Ignatius of Antioch in the Near East, was arrested, brought to Rome by armed guards and eventually martyred there in the arena. In a farewell letter which this early bishop and martyr wrote to his fellow Christians in Smyrna (today Izmir in modern Turkey), he made the first written mention in history of "the Catholic Church." He wrote, "Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" (To the Smyrnaeans 8:2). Thus, the second century of Christianity had scarcely begun when the name of the Catholic Church was already in use.

The name "Catholic" came by default sorta. "Catholic" and "Christian" were synonomous. ..The Great Schism between the east and west, and the various denominations that broke away from the original Christians (Catholics), gave birth to Orthodoxy, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist

If you traced the line of Popes from Francis on back, they would lead to Peter, to whom Christ said "you are Peter and upon this rock you will build my church" ...notice He said CHURCH, not churches...Christ also said that His church would not fail...but all those breakaway denominations said it did fail.

Sure the Catholic Church has made mistakes, but I would still rather belong to a church started by Jesus Christ than a church started by Martin Luther, King Henry, John Wesley or Joe Smith.

Catholic Church is the one true church of Jesus Christ.. and all of you that belong to breakaway denominations are in effect sayin Christs church has failed,,and you are gonna burn in mutha ****** hell!!!
To hell I say!!!

 

[Vader]

Jesus never said he was going to build his Church on Peter. If you read it Jesus is referring to Peter's proclamation that "Jesus was the Christ". Jesus calls Peter Satan in the next chapter. If you read the original Greek it says "You are Petrus (or a small rock) and upon this Petra (large unmoveable rock) I will build my church". Peter was not the first pope. He wasn't even the leader of the Jerusalem Council. James lead the early Church. Paul even calls out Peter to his face because he is trying to play both sides between the Jews and Christians.

The word Catholic means universal and was a descriptive term not a name. The early church didn't have an official name the way we think of it. In the Bible it is called the Church of Christ or the Church of God. And is often used in the plural, Churches of God and Churches of Christ.

Oh just a quick aside: Jesus refers to himself as the Petra many times.

 

[fedderone]

"Catholic" simply means universal...the term first used by St. Ignatius in 107 A.D.

Around the year A.D. 107, a bishop, St. Ignatius of Antioch in the Near East, was arrested, brought to Rome by armed guards and eventually martyred there in the arena. In a farewell letter which this early bishop and martyr wrote to his fellow Christians in Smyrna (today Izmir in modern Turkey), he made the first written mention in history of "the Catholic Church." He wrote, "Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" (To the Smyrnaeans 8:2). Thus, the second century of Christianity had scarcely begun when the name of the Catholic Church was already in use.

The name "Catholic" came by default sorta. "Catholic" and "Christian" were synonomous. ..The Great Schism between the east and west, and the various denominations that broke away from the original Christians (Catholics), gave birth to Orthodoxy, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist

If you traced the line of Popes from Francis on back, they would lead to Peter, to whom Christ said "you are Peter and upon this rock you will build my church" ...notice He said CHURCH, not churches...Christ also said that His church would not fail...but all those breakaway denominations said it did fail.

Sure the Catholic Church has made mistakes, but I would still rather belong to a church started by Jesus Christ than a church started by Martin Luther, King Henry, John Wesley or Joe Smith.

Catholic Church is the one true church of Jesus Christ.. and all of you that belong to breakaway denominations are in effect sayin Christs church has failed,,and you are gonna burn in mutha ****** hell!!!
To hell I say!!!

Um, I would point you to Constantine's unification of the Roman Empire and the Christians around 300 AD.
Specifically, the Edict of Milan.
It made worshipping one God legal and forbid the chastizing/putting to death/ostricizing of those whom believed in only one God.
It is why it is referred to as the roman catholic church. The first pope was an emperor and the first bishops were regional preficts like Pilate.
Peter as the first pope? Hardly. Peter was crucified upside down before there was such a thing.
He was punished for believing in only one God and not the multiple gods the Romans worshipped.

Gareth, to answer you original question, all Catholics are Christians, but all Christians are not necessarily Catholic.
To be a Christian, you must be a follower of Christ.
Nobody could follow Christ until He stepped foot on earth and showed everyone the new way to worship Him, changing from the Old Testament ways to what is current practice.
Catholicism didn't start until Constantine feared losing his vast empire and merged all the customs and rituals together between the various religions.
It's the main reason why the fundamental belief of the catholic is that of three co-existing eternal beings, rather than the one God is that is repeatedly mentioned throughout the bible from start to finish. Constantine made a way for the region/empire to accept Christianity by showing they prayed to multiple gods like them, and it's why some of the pagan rituals found their ways into Chrisitanity.

 

[Steelerfan]

BTW, I live in a town with two colleges....so most people seem to possess some sort of useless degree.

I was hanging at teh time with a 4 year history major who works landscaping and setting up bounce houses, a gentleman with a masters in sports management or something like that who works as a bartender, and the girl who has a 4 year degree in some sort of religious history.....and sells granite.

I was the only person without a degree.....as is quite often in this town, but I generally do well at debating on any variety of topics.

It's a great town altogether....small town chock full of rich young hot chicks being bilked out of their parents money to get worthless pieces of paper.

I love it here.

Prove it. This post is useless without pictures.

 

[khruuton]

How could the Catholics, who believe in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior pre-date Christianity which started while he still lived?

As the others have pointed out Gareth your friend is wrong. Catholics do not predate Jesus.

The name of the early Christian Church was the people of "The Way".

1 Now Saul, still breathing murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, that, if he should find any men or women who belonged to the Way, he might bring them back to Jerusalem in chains.

They did not become known as Christians until here:

Those who had been scattered by the persecution
that arose because of Stephen
went as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch,
preaching the word to no one but Jews.
There were some Cypriots and Cyrenians among them, however,
who came to Antioch and began to speak to the Greeks as well,
proclaiming the Lord Jesus.
The hand of the Lord was with them
and a great number who believed turned to the Lord.
The news about them reached the ears of the Church in Jerusalem,
and they sent Barnabas to go to Antioch.
When he arrived and saw the grace of God,
he rejoiced and encouraged them all
to remain faithful to the Lord in firmness of heart,
for he was a good man, filled with the Holy Spirit and faith.
And a large number of people was added to the Lord.
Then he went to Tarsus to look for Saul,
and when he had found him he brought him to Antioch.
For a whole year they met with the Church
and taught a large number of people,
and it was in Antioch that the disciples
were first called Christians.

Catholicism forms later as pointed out already by others in this post. Catholicism does find it's roots in the early Christian Church, and other protestant factions that are not roman catholic find their roots in the catholic faith. Likewise, Christianity is the natural progression from Judiasm that Christ ushered in.

I'm not sure how your friend came up with Catholicism predating Jesus.

 

[Chuck]

Welcome back Dennis!

 

[khruuton]

Thanks Sir Chuck! I have to bypass my IT guys to get on here now. Always a fun game of cat and mouse. lol

 

[bermudasteel]

Your bud's girl is wrong.
I am not Catholic but I am Lutheran which is sort of like Catholic Lite.
Catholics regard the apostle Peter, i.e. St. Peter, as the first Pope. That can't very well come before the time of Christ then, could it?
In laymen's terms, Christianity came from Judaism. Jesus Himself was a Jew. Basically at the time the people who followed Jesus Christ became Christians. The people who followed the Pharisees and Sadducees (leaders of the Jewish religion at the time who did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God because He was encroaching on their deal and making them look bad on a number of fronts) became the modern Jewish religion, who believe in the same God but not that Jesus was the Son of God. They are still waiting for Him to come. /Readers Digest version.

Nice answer.

"Catholic" simply means universal...the term first used by St. Ignatius in 107 A.D.

Around the year A.D. 107, a bishop, St. Ignatius of Antioch in the Near East, was arrested, brought to Rome by armed guards and eventually martyred there in the arena. In a farewell letter which this early bishop and martyr wrote to his fellow Christians in Smyrna (today Izmir in modern Turkey), he made the first written mention in history of "the Catholic Church." He wrote, "Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" (To the Smyrnaeans 8:2). Thus, the second century of Christianity had scarcely begun when the name of the Catholic Church was already in use.

The name "Catholic" came by default sorta. "Catholic" and "Christian" were synonomous. ..The Great Schism between the east and west, and the various denominations that broke away from the original Christians (Catholics), gave birth to Orthodoxy, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist

If you traced the line of Popes from Francis on back, they would lead to Peter, to whom Christ said "you are Peter and upon this rock you will build my church" ...notice He said CHURCH, not churches...Christ also said that His church would not fail...but all those breakaway denominations said it did fail.

Sure the Catholic Church has made mistakes, but I would still rather belong to a church started by Jesus Christ than a church started by Martin Luther, King Henry, John Wesley or Joe Smith.

Catholic Church is the one true church of Jesus Christ.. and all of you that belong to breakaway denominations are in effect sayin Christs church has failed,,and you are gonna burn in mutha ****** hell!!!
To hell I say!!!

Surely, you jest???

 

[Djfan]

One factor to consider is that the "Catholic" church of 1,000 years ago is very, very different from what you see today. It morphs. So, which "Catholic" church are you talking about?

 

[fedderone]

One factor to consider is that the "Catholic" church of 1,000 years ago is very, very different from what you see today. It morphs. So, which "Catholic" church are you talking about?

No matter which catholic church you choose, none will predate Christianity.
Catholic is a sect of Christianity, it does not predate Christianity.