Covid Vaccine

[Confluence]

Yes, but the problem was the coronavirus was a novel virus and no one knew at the time whether natural immunity would be conferred or how deadly the virus would be. Do I think the release of information as it was acquired was too slow? Absolutely. I just disagree with you on the motives.

My whole family got covid in December 2020 before there were vaccines. We were scared shitless, we are in our 50s and had no idea what would happen to us. My husband and son lost their sense of taste and smell, no one knew at the time if that would be permanent. I think a lot of people forget the uncertainty and fear. The idea that someone would just say "hey let's see if herd immunity works" early on, not knowing if it would kill hundreds of millions of people is a bit absurd.

So you chose to believe untested shots where the manufacturers hid their original data, changed the original phase 1 clinical endpoints repeatedly (lookup your own link in this very thread), stole manufacturing IP (from Allele), and lied repeatedly about preventing transmission, early serious adverse events, and immunity from previous infection.

You chose to believe that these magical shots saved your family because it allowed you to allay your fears. Fine. Works for you.

That does not make your narrative spinning true or real for the rest of the population who had a different physical, mental and emotional experience. You continue to denigrate those who's views are different than yours, even though they bring science and results -- you find sycophants to express your dismissive thoughts -- rather than letting the reality of the many who suffered great injustice and harm be recognized and respected.

That is just sad. Perhaps one day you will open your mind.

 

[oneforthebus]

You are choosing to believe that which you find, rather than providing any response that answers the basic question of "were the Covid shots either safe or efficacious"?

There are mountains of evidence that this is not the case, but you choose to find the words of apologists --- likely funded by the same pharma and governments that approved these sham shots --- to demonstrate your beliefs.

And that is your right. You are entitled to stick your head in the sand and ignore the parts of the Covid scam that you don't want to believe.

That is just sad.

Right. Any scientist who doesn't agree with anti-vax posts is "funded by pharma and big government". Even the author of the study itself who says this study did not even look at deaths in vaxxed vs. unvaxxed. Nothing that disagrees with you folks is ever considered credible, even the authors of the very studies you cite. I think it might be you who has your head in the sand but I know I won't convince you otherwise.

 

[oneforthebus]

So you chose to believe untested shots where the manufacturers hid their original data, changed the original phase 1 clinical endpoints repeatedly (lookup your own link in this very thread), stole manufacturing IP (from Allele), and lied repeatedly about preventing transmission, early serious adverse events, and immunity from previous infection.

You chose to believe that these magical shots saved your family because it allowed you to allay your fears. Fine. Works for you.

That does not make your narrative spinning true or real for the rest of the population who had a different physical, mental and emotional experience. You continue to denigrate those who's views are different than yours, even though they bring science and results -- you find sycophants to express your dismissive thoughts -- rather than letting the reality of the many who suffered great injustice and harm be recognized and respected.

That is just sad. Perhaps one day you will open your mind.

I don't know what you're talking about. I've said numerous times that A) the shots are not very effective and B) My family and I got covid the first time before the vaccines existed. We got covid again after being fully vaccinated. Nowhere did I say the shots saved my family. I said that we were afraid early on (most rational people were) and the idea that anyone would have just let the virus run wild at that point to achieve herd immunity (which by the way isn't possible either because getting covid certainly didn't stop anyone from getting it again) would have been ludicrous at that point.

The Allele lawsuits had zero to do with safety or efficacy of the vaccines, they were patent infringement cases that were settled between the parties. Again, I've seen no credible evidence that data was hidden. The vaccines did initially show reduced transmission, which unfortunately waned quickly. You choose to believe they intentionally lied about it, I don't. I believe they went with the initial promising results because it was an emergent situation, and there wasn't a known alternative. Something was better than nothing.

The only thing I disagree with you folks on is the supposed widespread serious harm and deadliness of the vaccines, the data doesn't support that. I also don't believe it was all some conspiracy to lie to us. You do, that's not gonna change. You're not gonna convince me that the government and pharmaceutical companies conspired to deceive us and harm us with the vaccines. There's no credible evidence of that. Again, my biggest criticism was the very slow walk of information as they learned it, and the unscientific Faucisms like cloth masks and 6 feet apart which had no basis in science. And the mandates of an emergency authorized vaccines which created suspicion and resistance where there once was eagerness. But I chalk most of this up to desperation to try anything to keep millions of people from dying from a novel virus whose effects couldn't be predicted.

Do I think they went overboard? Hell yeah. Do I think some were stubbornly refusing to admit when knowledge and understanding had changed? Hell yeah.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I don't know what you're talking about. I've said numerous times that A) the shots are not very effective and B) My family and I got covid the first time before the vaccines existed. We got covid again after being fully vaccinated. Nowhere did I say the shots saved my family. I said that we were afraid early on (most rational people were) and the idea that anyone would have just let the virus run wild at that point to achieve herd immunity (which by the way isn't possible either because getting covid certainly didn't stop anyone from getting it again) would have been ludicrous at that point.

The Allele lawsuits had zero to do with safety or efficacy of the vaccines, they were patent infringement cases that were settled between the parties. Again, I've seen no credible evidence that data was hidden. The vaccines did initially show reduced transmission, which unfortunately waned quickly. You choose to believe they intentionally lied about it, I don't. I believe they went with the initial promising results because it was an emergent situation, and there wasn't a known alternative. Something was better than nothing.

The only thing I disagree with you folks on is the supposed widespread serious harm and deadliness of the vaccines, the data doesn't support that. I also don't believe it was all some conspiracy to lie to us. You do, that's not gonna change. You're not gonna convince me that the government and pharmaceutical companies conspired to deceive us and harm us with the vaccines. There's no credible evidence of that. Again, my biggest criticism was the very slow walk of information as they learned it, and the unscientific Faucisms like cloth masks and 6 feet apart which had no basis in science. And the mandates of an emergency authorized vaccines which created suspicion and resistance where there once was eagerness. But I chalk most of this up to desperation to try anything to keep millions of people from dying from a novel virus whose effects couldn't be predicted.

Do I think they went overboard? Hell yeah. Do I think some were stubbornly refusing to admit when knowledge and understanding had changed? Hell yeah.

The skepticism is a direct result of the arrogance of those presenting information to us, the CDC, Fauci, the parroting media.
Granted, at first no one was really certain what we were dealing with, safety precaution seemingly being pulled out of thin air as over precaution.

Problem being once more was known, these same people kept up the nonsense, the masks, one way grocery aisles, 6 feet separation, Walmart good the corner bakery bad, getting arrested for going swimming on a deserted beach, and make sure everyone gets their booster. The heavy-handed authority became too much.

And you are correct; they still won't admit that they handled it badly, making it harder to believe anything they now say. Their unrepentant attitude that they know better and should never be questioned. They respond with deflection or gaslighting, all to maintain their perceived flawless self-image.

Authority should always be questioned, even when these blowhards tell us not to.

 

[fedderone]

The skepticism is a direct result of the arrogance of those presenting information to us, the CDC, Fauci, the parroting media.
Granted, at first no one was really certain what we were dealing with, safety precaution seemingly being pulled out of thin air as over precaution.

Problem being once more was known, these same people kept up the nonsense, the masks, one way grocery aisles, 6 feet separation, Walmart good the corner bakery bad, getting arrested for going swimming on a deserted beach, and make sure everyone gets their booster. The heavy-handed authority became too much.

And you are correct; they still won't admit that they handled it badly, making it harder to believe anything they now say. Their unrepentant attitude that they know better and should never be questioned. They respond with deflection or gaslighting, all to maintain their perceived flawless self-image.

Authority should always be questioned, even when these blowhards tell us not to.

100%, Zona!
This is an awesome case study of the old adage that "it's far easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone that they've been fooled."
People seriously have this pride of not wanting to admit they were duped.
Just FN dumb.

 

[Confluence]

Right. Any scientist who doesn't agree with anti-vax posts is "funded by pharma and big government".

Ok, which of the ones you cited was I mistaken about?

Even the author of the study itself who says this study did not even look at deaths in vaxxed vs. unvaxxed.

I didnt cite any study; you did. Which specifically are you referring to?

Nothing that disagrees with you folks is ever considered credible, even the authors of the very studies you cite. I think it might be you who has your head in the sand but I know I won't convince you otherwise.

Uh, what do you mean by "you folks"?
Those that don't want to be spoonfed by the regulatory capture artists running public health and pharma?
Lol, do tell why you are able to divide "you folks"-presumably me included from your group, whatever that is.

Is your group those apologists I referred to above that got almost all of the plandemic, from origins to treatment, horribly wrong in such a belligerent way as invoke such a wide swath of the public, both old and young, to disbelieve government and corporate propaganda for the foreseeable future?

Great job!

 

[oneforthebus]

I

Ok, which of the ones you cited was I mistaken about?


I didnt cite any study; you did. Which specifically are you referring to?

Uh, what do you mean by "you folks"?
Those that don't want to be spoonfed by the regulatory capture artists running public health and pharma?
Lol, do tell why you are able to divide "you folks"-presumably me included from your group, whatever that is.

Is your group those apologists I referred to above that got almost all of the plandemic, from origins to treatment, horribly wrong in such a belligerent way as invoke such a wide swath of the public, both old and young, to disbelieve government and corporate propaganda for the foreseeable future?

Great job!

No, my “group” doesn’t take scientific study, cherry pick it and twist it into something it isn’t. My “group” acknowledges science isn’t perfect, errors happen and data looks different over time in an emergent situation. My “group” looks at real data, acknowledges flaws and doesn’t exaggerate them for effect. My “group” doesn’t allege a vast conspiracy between the government, pharmaceutical companies and scientists to harm people. My “group” doesn’t claim hundreds of thousands of injuries and deaths without evidence, but does recognize proven rare adverse events and deaths. I’m in the group that respects legitimate science and not thoroughly debunked crap.

As to your other questions I’ve already answered them. Supe cited a couple of studies that Surprise! anti-vaxxers omitted highly relevant data and twisted data to say something it didn’t. You can go back and read my posts if you want the answers to your questions.
As for me I’m done for now, every time I come back to this topic it’s a reminder of what a waste of time it is.

You didn’t even address the fact that you claimed I said something I have never once said. You never do address factual information that I present here, you just regurgitate the same lines over and over again.

 

[Troglodyte]

and Google didnt follow yours. note the green text above.

“They weren’t perfect!” Neither are seatbelts and helmets. So the **** what?

 

[oneforthebus]

The skepticism is a direct result of the arrogance of those presenting information to us, the CDC, Fauci, the parroting media.
Granted, at first no one was really certain what we were dealing with, safety precaution seemingly being pulled out of thin air as over precaution.

Problem being once more was known, these same people kept up the nonsense, the masks, one way grocery aisles, 6 feet separation, Walmart good the corner bakery bad, getting arrested for going swimming on a deserted beach, and make sure everyone gets their booster. The heavy-handed authority became too much.

And you are correct; they still won't admit that they handled it badly, making it harder to believe anything they now say. Their unrepentant attitude that they know better and should never be questioned. They respond with deflection or gaslighting, all to maintain their perceived flawless self-image.

Authority should always be questioned, even when these blowhards tell us not to.

I mostly agree with everything you've said here. Unfortunately the skepticism has been seized upon by an anti-vax movement that has no problem blatantly lying to people. Most of whom are soliciting donations, selling books, apps and "natural" alternatives that do little or nothing to prevent or treat disease. We've gone too far in the other direction, and if we keep going that way, people will die. Babies and children will get completely preventable diseases that will maim and kill them.

Yeah I get it, the people who were heavy handed deserve some of the blame for that, that won't stop me from championing medical science that has literally saved millions and millions of lives. It won't stop me from pointing out the blatant lies, half-truths and cherry picking coming out of the anti-vax, anti-medical science movement.

 

[Superman]

“They weren’t perfect!” Neither are seatbelts and helmets. So the **** what?

your seat belt analogy is incorrect.
the "vaccine" should be more compared to a windshield. sure, it might save your life. it may also kill you.

pfuck off with your childish "gotcha" bullsh1t

 

[Confluence]

If we had a flu vaccine that was 99% effective in preventing flu deaths and 94% effective in preventing serious flu illness, don't you think we'd be strongly encouraging people to take it? Would you feel great knowing you put out a bunch of half truths and convinced people not to get it who then died from the flu? (I'm not saying that's what you're doing but many are).

Is this the post you are referring to?

 

[Confluence]

Well I totally agree with you there. I don't want information censored. Misinformation should be called out and publicly proven wrong, not hidden from us because we are assumed to be too stupid to look at all the evidence and figure out the truth on our own. I hate misinformation but censorship is not the way to combat it. Legitimate debate is.

Or this one?

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I mostly agree with everything you've said here. Unfortunately the skepticism has been seized upon by an anti-vax movement that has no problem blatantly lying to people. Most of whom are soliciting donations, selling books, apps and "natural" alternatives that do little or nothing to prevent or treat disease. We've gone too far in the other direction, and if we keep going that way, people will die. Babies and children will get completely preventable diseases that will maim and kill them.

Yeah I get it, the people who were heavy handed deserve some of the blame for that, that won't stop me from championing medical science that has literally saved millions and millions of lives. It won't stop me from pointing out the blatant lies, half-truths and cherry picking coming out of the anti-vax, anti-medical science movement.

I'm on your side here, I know what vaccines can and can't do, knowing their benefits as well as their limitations.
Those that believe that vaccines serve no purpose and are inherently harmful are just a naive as those that are on their 12th booster.

Common sense prevails for the majority; I wouldn't concern myself with the fringe at the end of the spectrum.

 

[oneforthebus]

Or this one?

Is this the post you are referring to?

It appears you're quoting two of my old posts completely out of context, and are trying to say what exactly? I'm not sure what your point is?

 

[Confluence]

“The most damning evidence was a re-analysis of Pfizer and Moderna’s original trials,” he said in his testimony. “It determined the frequency of serious harm from the product was 2-4 times more likely than being hospitalized with severe Covid. In my view, if the system had been more transparent, this prophylactic gene therapy would likely not have been injected into a single human being in the first place.”

Aseem Malhotra, a well-known British cardiologist.

https://open.substack.com/pub/theofficialmahareport/p/top-doctors-testify-that-the-covid?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=60rtli

 

[Confluence]

It appears you're quoting two of my old posts completely out of context, and are trying to say what exactly? I'm not sure what your point is?

Yeah, I wasn't sure what you were talking about a few posts up, so I searched back in this very thread, but stopped at those two; there is lots more, and they are not out of context: just the opposite as they are the context.

Look at some of the testimony in Congress over the past couple days, and then read your words on misinformation.

It is tragic that this long con was pulled on the public, that it changed elections, and that it killed and injured so many people globally.

And some folks are still making like that didn't happen. Shameful.

 

[IndySteel]

There are two groups: Those who see Covid and the poisonous vax for the scam that it was, and those who don't.

Oh, and a 3rd group: those who swallow all the misinformation eagerly like Linda Lovelace / Flog.

 

[oneforthebus]

Yeah, I wasn't sure what you were talking about a few posts up, so I searched back in this very thread, but stopped at those two; there is lots more, and they are not out of context: just the opposite as they are the context.

Look at some of the testimony in Congress over the past couple days, and then read your words on misinformation.

It is tragic that this long con was pulled on the public, that it changed elections, and that it killed and injured so many people globally.

And some folks are still making like that didn't happen. Shameful.

I honestly still don’t get what your point is. That I’m against misinformation? I am. You seem to think all misinformation comes from the government and pharma. I’ve pointed out dozens of instances of anti-vax misinformation that you either ignore or claim is “funded by the government and big phama”. I’m not claiming at all that there were no bad actors. The idea that this whole thing was a “con” to affect elections is ludicrous. It was a global pandemic that millions of people died from all over the world. You seem to forget that in all of your conspiracy theories. The vaccines “killed and injured” tiny fractions of the people who died of covid, and saved many more lives than they harmed. Of course any scientific data to that effect will just be instantly dismissed by you in favor of demonstrably false anti-vax propaganda.

 

[Superman]

IMO, the vaxx was good for some people. not all. and those it was good for had a lot of health issues anyway.
as has been said - every vaccine or medication has some side effects. even aspirin.

but this "vaccine" had side effects that went way off the chart. and, yes, i believe we were not told of all the possible side effects. why were we not told? probably because then the vaxx wouldn't have been administered so widespread.

and even aspirin is prescribed by age/weight. yet we were giving away donuts in parking lots for people to drive through and get jabbed. that just doesn't make sense. hell, even 2 aspirins may not have the same effect on different people, but one holy clot shot was to have the exact same outcome on everyone.

 

[oneforthebus]

“The most damning evidence was a re-analysis of Pfizer and Moderna’s original trials,” he said in his testimony. “It determined the frequency of serious harm from the product was 2-4 times more likely than being hospitalized with severe Covid. In my view, if the system had been more transparent, this prophylactic gene therapy would likely not have been injected into a single human being in the first place.”

Aseem Malhotra, a well-known British cardiologist.

https://open.substack.com/pub/theofficialmahareport/p/top-doctors-testify-that-the-covid?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=60rtli

Has been refuted and condemned by many scientists but why would I waste my time googling and posting here (again, we've gone over the "turbo cancer" fraud here before) when you'll just automatically dismiss it? Gotta go to work now, have a good day.

 

[Badcat]

I honestly still don’t get what your point is. That I’m against misinformation? I am. You seem to think all misinformation comes from the government and pharma. I’ve pointed out dozens of instances of anti-vax misinformation that you either ignore or claim is “funded by the government and big phama”. I’m not claiming at all that there were no bad actors. The idea that this whole thing was a “con” to affect elections is ludicrous. It was a global pandemic that millions of people died from all over the world. You seem to forget that in all of your conspiracy theories. The vaccines “killed and injured” tiny fractions of the people who died of covid, and saved many more lives than they harmed. Of course any scientific data to that effect will just be instantly dismissed by you in favor of demonstrably false anti-vax propaganda.

It wasn't a con to steal an election, but the dems certainly used the crisis to their advantage and ushered in mail in ballots that stole it for them. This was a global human holocaust to relive the strain upon our natural resources. Releasing the unproven vaccine, which MRNA has been in testing for decades without approvals, upon the masses was reckless and irresponsible, criminal even.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

- every vaccine or medication has some side effects. even aspirin.

If you read the package insert for aspirin you probably wouldn't take it.

Risk and benefits, risk and benefits.

 

[Badcat]

If you read the package insert for aspirin you probably wouldn't take it.

Risk and benefits, risk and benefits.

Funny thing, I am a huge fan of the show Alone, and they had one participant on who was an herbalist with a debilitating disease, and she managed her pain relatively well with natural herbs. So, the wifey and I got into it and we make something called Amish Ibuprofen. It shocked me how well it works comparatively to the synthetic version. All it is, is Dandelion plant and roots with Apple Cider vinegar. I take two teaspoons when I start to feel a Migraine coming on and it keeps it from full explosion.