Drafting and Development Problem

[SteelerFan448]

The Steelers have issues outside of head coach and drafting and development is probably at the top. When Kevin Colbert joined Bill Cowher, the Steelers built the foundation to future championships through the drafts. By my count, the only current players drafted by the Steelers on at least a second contract are Cam Heyward, TJ Watt, Alex Highsmith, and Pat Freiermuth (I apologize if I missed anyone). That's bad.

We all know how bad Colbert was at the end and the failure of first-round picks highlighted by Punx in another thread. Edmunds, Bush, (Fitzpatrick), Harris, Pickett, Jones, Fautanu has gotten the Steelers very little return on investment. You figure Harris will walk this year and there's a chance the Steelers trade Pickens during the offseason.

Khan/Weidl appear to be on the right track, but there are still some questions with player development.

2023
Joey Porter Jr. and Keeanu Benton at least look like solid starters with higher upside than they displayed in year 2.
Darnell Washington, Nick Herbig, and Cory Trice have all shown to various degrees impact reserve players.
Broderick Jones is still developing and hopefully year 3 is his breakout year.

2024
The Steelers had lost seasons from Troy Fautanu and Roman Wilson. That's tough for 2 of your top 3 picks to miss the season.
Zach Frazier and Payton Wilson had very good rookie years and should continue into the future.
Mason McCormick faded as the season progressed, but he entered the lineup a year early. He should still be able to develop into a solid starter for years to come.

We can at least see a pattern with the new front office to build the roster with premium positions with the team's premium picks. For the most part, analysts and fans have believed the Steelers got good value out of their last two drafts. That brings development to the forefront. Few second contracts and the lack of development from players (or entire units such as the offensive line) is a concern. It's hard to feel confident with this team building a contender if they can't develop and retain their current talent.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

boz?

 

[SteelerFan448]

boz?

He wasn't drafted by the Steelers.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

The Steelers have issues outside of head coach and drafting and development is probably at the top. When Kevin Colbert joined Bill Cowher, the Steelers built the foundation to future championships through the drafts. By my count, the only current players drafted by the Steelers on at least a second contract are Cam Heyward, TJ Watt, Alex Highsmith, and Pat Freiermuth (I apologize if I missed anyone). That's bad.

We all know how bad Colbert was at the end and the failure of first-round picks highlighted by Punx in another thread. Edmunds, Bush, (Fitzpatrick), Harris, Pickett, Jones, Fautanu has gotten the Steelers very little return on investment. You figure Harris will walk this year and there's a chance the Steelers trade Pickens during the offseason.

Khan/Weidl appear to be on the right track, but there are still some questions with player development.

2023
Joey Porter Jr. and Keeanu Benton at least look like solid starters with higher upside than they displayed in year 2.
Darnell Washington, Nick Herbig, and Cory Trice have all shown to various degrees impact reserve players.
Broderick Jones is still developing and hopefully year 3 is his breakout year.

2024
The Steelers had lost seasons from Troy Fautanu and Roman Wilson. That's tough for 2 of your top 3 picks to miss the season.
Zach Frazier and Payton Wilson had very good rookie years and should continue into the future.
Mason McCormick faded as the season progressed, but he entered the lineup a year early. He should still be able to develop into a solid starter for years to come.

We can at least see a pattern with the new front office to build the roster with premium positions with the team's premium picks. For the most part, analysts and fans have believed the Steelers got good value out of their last two drafts. That brings development to the forefront. Few second contracts and the lack of development from players (or entire units such as the offensive line) is a concern. It's hard to feel confident with this team building a contender if they can't develop and retain their current talent.

Tomlin requires finished products
He’s said as much
Not his job to coach guys up

So development doesn’t matter to Art Deuce…
May as well trade all picks for established veterans like they did way back in the day pre Noll when the Steelers really sucked out loud.

This organization is being run into the ground by an incompetent owner-HC combo

Doesn’t matter who they draft

 

[Drink IRON City]

Great Post ‘448, thanks for all your great ones along the way. I appreciate yaz.

Bozwell was signed by Houston, not through the draft (2014)

Coach Tomlin doesn’t bring in top flight Offensive or Defensive coordinators. For what ever his internal reasoning is, he brings in lower degree brains and the trickle down affect is they in turn bring in lower assistants and on down the ladder.

Eventually the ball boy can do the job of many and works for less pay.

Tomlin has said “ if they don’t know by now, we can’t help them”.

Many here have said that these guys are professionals and shouldn’t need coaching up. I scream out bull-****.

Coaching up is taking and improving what ever the degree of play, to being better. Obviously all world players don’t need nearly as much as the average player but still need the tweek. It’s this attention to detail that Coach Tomlin & his staff don’t seem to notice or put the work into stepping them up.

In season 23’, TJ Watt was running himself right out of the play, consistently. It got to where the opposing tackle just rode him straight on back and the RB could just under-cut and get outside. It happened way too often to be a fluke. On the Pat McAfee show, JJ Watt talked about it openly and also talked to TJ about and worked with him on a technique to combat it. TJ found gratification in the “coaching up”, albeit from outside organization.

The better the Coordinators, the better the hires on down the line……. That all translates into player Developement and coaching up.


Salute the nation

 

[Lloyd]

The Steelers have issues outside of head coach and drafting and development is probably at the top. When Kevin Colbert joined Bill Cowher, the Steelers built the foundation to future championships through the drafts. By my count, the only current players drafted by the Steelers on at least a second contract are Cam Heyward, TJ Watt, Alex Highsmith, and Pat Freiermuth (I apologize if I missed anyone). That's bad.

We all know how bad Colbert was at the end and the failure of first-round picks highlighted by Punx in another thread. Edmunds, Bush, (Fitzpatrick), Harris, Pickett, Jones, Fautanu has gotten the Steelers very little return on investment. You figure Harris will walk this year and there's a chance the Steelers trade Pickens during the offseason.

Khan/Weidl appear to be on the right track, but there are still some questions with player development.

2023
Joey Porter Jr. and Keeanu Benton at least look like solid starters with higher upside than they displayed in year 2.
Darnell Washington, Nick Herbig, and Cory Trice have all shown to various degrees impact reserve players.
Broderick Jones is still developing and hopefully year 3 is his breakout year.

2024
The Steelers had lost seasons from Troy Fautanu and Roman Wilson. That's tough for 2 of your top 3 picks to miss the season.
Zach Frazier and Payton Wilson had very good rookie years and should continue into the future.
Mason McCormick faded as the season progressed, but he entered the lineup a year early. He should still be able to develop into a solid starter for years to come.

We can at least see a pattern with the new front office to build the roster with premium positions with the team's premium picks. For the most part, analysts and fans have believed the Steelers got good value out of their last two drafts. That brings development to the forefront. Few second contracts and the lack of development from players (or entire units such as the offensive line) is a concern. It's hard to feel confident with this team building a contender if they can't develop and retain their current talent.

23 is dependent on how Fraudlin manages Jones, so far he gets a D. It's yet another case of Shades screwing up playing a guy out of his natural position all so he can give one of his "buddies" starting time, even though ratings companies have him rated at the bottom of LTs every year. For 24, Fautanu also has a low grade so far. Good try working on the OL. but it's not working out so far. Analysts may like that we tried to improve the tackles on the OL, but thus far, not seeing any progress. But looking at OLmen development so far, the lack of progress is on Fraudlin and Meyers, considering what guys have done once they escaped from here.

 

[SteelerFan448]

23 is dependent on how Fraudlin manages Jones, so far he gets a D. It's yet another case of Shades screwing up playing a guy out of his natural position all so he can give one of his "buddies" starting time, even though ratings companies have him rated at the bottom of LTs every year. For 24, Fautanu also has a low grade so far. Good try working on the OL. but it's not working out so far. Analysts may like that we tried to improve the tackles on the OL, but thus far, not seeing any progress. But looking at OLmen development so far, the lack of progress is on Fraudlin and Meyers, considering what guys have done once they escaped from here.

The investment does not match the production.

First round: Broderick Jones and Troy Fautanu
Second round: Zach Frazier
Fourth round: Dan Moore and Mason McCormick
UFAs: James Daniels (currently the 11th highest paid RG) and Isaac Seumalo (currently the 11th highest paid LG)

They had some injury issues, but the unit as a whole should've showed some progression from last year to this year as well as growth throughout the year. I don't believe we've seen enough.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

IMO. Ive seen enough that this O line coach needs replaced. Nobody got better. Thank god Frazier is as good as he is. Mccormick shouldnt be as good as he was. Daniels wasnt impressive at all when starting. Seomaulo was meh.

 

[TimesAreChanged]

This is also the Head Coach fault

Fire Tomlin

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Great Post ‘448, thanks for all your great ones along the way. I appreciate yaz.

Bozwell was signed by Houston, not through the draft (2014)

Coach Tomlin doesn’t bring in top flight Offensive or Defensive coordinators. For what ever his internal reasoning is, he brings in lower degree brains and the trickle down affect is they in turn bring in lower assistants and on down the ladder.

Eventually the ball boy can do the job of many and works for less pay.

Tomlin has said “ if they don’t know by now, we can’t help them”.

Many here have said that these guys are professionals and shouldn’t need coaching up. I scream out bull-****.

Coaching up is taking and improving what ever the degree of play, to being better. Obviously all world players don’t need nearly as much as the average player but still need the tweek. It’s this attention to detail that Coach Tomlin & his staff don’t seem to notice or put the work into stepping them up.

In season 23’, TJ Watt was running himself right out of the play, consistently. It got to where the opposing tackle just rode him straight on back and the RB could just under-cut and get outside. It happened way too often to be a fluke. On the Pat McAfee show, JJ Watt talked about it openly and also talked to TJ about and worked with him on a technique to combat it. TJ found gratification in the “coaching up”, albeit from outside organization.

The better the Coordinators, the better the hires on down the line……. That all translates into player Developement and coaching up.


Salute the nation

Exactly look at any of the great college coaches

They can have a program littered with top notch talent stacked with 4-5 star recruits. They don’t assume the talent differential will get them where they want. They actively coach all week/including game days to do what a REAL coach does…COACH

Tomlin thought he could fill a defense with first round draft picks and obviously the pedigree would yield results. Remember what that squad did? Diddly squat. Obviously the talent differential isn’t enough. Even top notch talent needs solid coaching to succeed at the NFL level.

Maybe he doesn’t have any time to coach players cuz he’s too busy Mike-romanaging coordinators? All the time spent controlling them with his vast wealth of knowledge he’s gained in nearly 2 decades of head coaching is do nothing but stifling the growth of the sapling one branch Steelers tree.
Stunted growth on that tree for sure.

Look what a guy 15 years younger Sean McVie has put into the league off his flourishing tree. Several successful coaches as he obviously helps them grow as well as his players.

But if ya wanna know what to do with unboxed pudding or not be told the ingredients of a hot dog…we’re covered there! Good grief pull your head outta your azz Art

 

[Fiji Mariner]

The investment does not match the production.

First round: Broderick Jones and Troy Fautanu
Second round: Zach Frazier
Fourth round: Dan Moore and Mason McCormick
UFAs: James Daniels (currently the 11th highest paid RG) and Isaac Seumalo (currently the 11th highest paid LG)

They had some injury issues, but the unit as a whole should've showed some progression from last year to this year as well as growth throughout the year. I don't believe we've seen enough.

1st round: Jones being played out of position due to poor coaching decision. Coach was reluctant to even put him on the field until Chuks really screwed up and blew himself up. He plays one of his best games when at LT subbing for the injured Turnstile Moore and then is shipped right back to RT to get Turnstile Moore back in there???

This team led by Tomlin has been mismanaging their first round picks for some time. If they don’t hit on a generational talent like TJ the juice won’t be worth the squeeze. Even when they have a generational talent fall into their lap Shades scheme mismanages him too with asinine assignments and predictable rush schemes.

If Frazier weren’t an absolute obvious great prospect I’m sure dummy would screw him up too, heck he may not have even seen the field this year if Herbig doesn’t get hurt. We’ve got some top notch mismanaging morons driving a clown car.

 

[Drink IRON City]

This is also the Head Coach fault

Fire Tomlin

You and I both know that isn’t going to happen to the degree that some would think it’s futile to even bring in better sub-coaching.

I’m always for trying to achieve betterment, regardless of some of the odds. I know Groundhog Day has been evident, but just maybe there is a chance of getting the right surrounding cast. Can’t stop trying.

Ultimately, Coach Tomlin needs major change or to be released. Unfortunately we may not see that until ownership / president of operations is replaced.



Salute the nation

 

[BLITZ]

23 is dependent on how Fraudlin manages Jones, so far he gets a D. It's yet another case of Shades screwing up playing a guy out of his natural position all so he can give one of his "buddies" starting time, even though ratings companies have him rated at the bottom of LTs every year. For 24, Fautanu also has a low grade so far. Good try working on the OL. but it's not working out so far. Analysts may like that we tried to improve the tackles on the OL, but thus far, not seeing any progress. But looking at OLmen development so far, the lack of progress is on Fraudlin and Meyers, considering what guys have done once they escaped from here.

Since most of his "buddies" are gone, can you give us your personal insight on who the current "buddies" are? Most of us do not have the inside scoop like you do.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

This is also the Head Coach fault

Fire Tomlin

Google Ben Rothlisberger says Tomlin makes most decisions in Pittsburgh-there’s an article out today on another site quoting Ben stating Tomlin controls the drafting

Of course we know he controls the assistant coaches hiring so if the players aren’t being developed by crappy coaches that Tomlin hired and refuses to move on from unless 70,000 people in the stadium embarrass him by chanting for his firing-also on Tomlin

You and the other other Tomlin defenders here look dumber and more desperate by the day. At least there are only 4 of you left here simping for him and calling people who want him gone haters now, who knows maybe you’ve got duplicate accounts?

 

[Lloyd]

Tomlin requires finished products
He’s said as much
Not his job to coach guys up

So development doesn’t matter to Art Deuce…
May as well trade all picks for established veterans like they did way back in the day pre Noll when the Steelers really sucked out loud.

This organization is being run into the ground by an incompetent owner-HC combo

Doesn’t matter who they draft

No, I actually believe the current configuration of Art II, Kahn and Fraudin can keep us hovering around .500, just don't expect us to actually win playoff games; that is a bridge too far. I mean, what is the plan for a QB under this administration? More has beens ad never weres? An allotment of Wilsons, Fields and Picketts? Sounds about right. "And behind door #2, a mid 30's QB you get for a deal." I don't think Art II will find a good deal as good as the one he lucked into with Russ anytime soon. So we are "out of luck," so to speak. I guess we'll settle for a "never was" with Fields who can't read a D or tell who is open. That's what "great deals" get you: a QB who they fear allowing to throw down the field limiting your offense to "run, run, pass, punt" for 90% of the game.

 

[bigben]

The Steelers have issues outside of head coach and drafting and development is probably at the top. When Kevin Colbert joined Bill Cowher, the Steelers built the foundation to future championships through the drafts. By my count, the only current players drafted by the Steelers on at least a second contract are Cam Heyward, TJ Watt, Alex Highsmith, and Pat Freiermuth (I apologize if I missed anyone). That's bad.

We all know how bad Colbert was at the end and the failure of first-round picks highlighted by Punx in another thread. Edmunds, Bush, (Fitzpatrick), Harris, Pickett, Jones, Fautanu has gotten the Steelers very little return on investment. You figure Harris will walk this year and there's a chance the Steelers trade Pickens during the offseason.

Khan/Weidl appear to be on the right track, but there are still some questions with player development.

2023
Joey Porter Jr. and Keeanu Benton at least look like solid starters with higher upside than they displayed in year 2.
Darnell Washington, Nick Herbig, and Cory Trice have all shown to various degrees impact reserve players.
Broderick Jones is still developing and hopefully year 3 is his breakout year.

2024
The Steelers had lost seasons from Troy Fautanu and Roman Wilson. That's tough for 2 of your top 3 picks to miss the season.
Zach Frazier and Payton Wilson had very good rookie years and should continue into the future.
Mason McCormick faded as the season progressed, but he entered the lineup a year early. He should still be able to develop into a solid starter for years to come.

We can at least see a pattern with the new front office to build the roster with premium positions with the team's premium picks. For the most part, analysts and fans have believed the Steelers got good value out of their last two drafts. That brings development to the forefront. Few second contracts and the lack of development from players (or entire units such as the offensive line) is a concern. It's hard to feel confident with this team building a contender if they can't develop and retain their current talent.

Payton looks like the steal. Frazier has been a big upgrade. But the OL is far from fixed.
Porter and Jones look like 5th round talent taken in the first round. Both are penalty machines.
If Roman Wilson even makes it on the field we will have Pickens and high school size recievers at WR 2 and 3. No thanks

What don't we need in the draft? Kicker? LB
The recent drafts have destroyed a once great franchise.

 

[Lloyd]

Payton looks like the steal. Frazier has been a big upgrade. But the OL is far from fixed.
Porter and Jones look like 5th round talent taken in the first round. Both are penalty machines.
If Roman Wilson even makes it on the field we will have Pickens and high school size recievers at WR 2 and 3. No thanks

What don't we need in the draft? Kicker? LB
The recent drafts have destroyed a once great franchise.

Look at my post where I only recorded the last dozen of 1st round picks, it's a jaw opener.