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Enough with Defending Europe

Spike

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Donald Trump gets what John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and a bevy of hidebound American elites -- Republicans and Democrats -- refuse to get. America's relationship to, and military involvement in, Europe is long overdue for a big overhaul.

World War II ended in 1945. The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Yet nearly a generation after the USSR went away, the U.S. is still, broadly, non-Russian Europe's principal defender.

Why?

The nations of Western Europe, primarily, affluent for decades, have benefited from American protection at American taxpayers' expense. All this time, Western Europe's progressive leaders enjoyed the luxury of diverting untold treasure into their social welfare systems. Cradle to grave, they call it. Americans provide a disproportionate share of NATO's hardware and soldiers, while the French, for instance, practically give workers every August at the beach. Lose your job? No worries. In Denmark, you can live off the public teat for up to 104 weeks at 90% your previous salary.

NATO is a relic. It shouldn't be transformed into a roving globalist military machine, as seems the intent, in the quest for a new mission. The U.S. needs to sunset its NATO membership. NATO needs to become the "European Union Treaty Organization" or some such. It's high time for Europeans to reorder their priorities. Or not. Europe's fate belongs to Europeans. No more free rides compliments of the U.S.

Not only should President-elect Trump serve notice that the U.S. will transition out of NATO, but he needs to discard the Wilsonian notion that America's role is to make the world safe for democracy.

America's role is to make the world safe for itself. America isn't the world’s nanny-cop.

American interests take precedent. Trump shouldn’t let NATO get in the way of a smart deal with Putin.

This isn’t the 1980s. No longer is the world bipolar, split roughly between U.S. and Soviet spheres. The PRC is the coming military power in Asia. Its desire is to supplant the U.S. as the world’s preeminent power. Militant Islam is a ideological-religious and practical threat to nations and worldviews across the globe. Refugee crises are burgeoning in the Old and New Worlds.

NATO members (sans the U.S.) have the wealth to attend their own collective security. What Europeans may lack is the will to contain the Russians, relying on the U.S. to furnish that as well. We don’t need any more American military cemeteries in Europe.

What Trump needs to say to McCain and Europe: “Enough done. No more.”

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/01/enough_with_defending_europe.html

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YES, YES, YES!
 
Wait till a Trump building is hit in Europe and our military will double down defending any country with a Trump business interest.
 
Wait till a Trump building is hit in Europe and our military will double down defending any country with a Trump business interest.

Wow, do you mean like US troops guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan?
 
Either pull out or they can pay us to be there. That's partly why the Eurotrash has all their Socialist bullshit, because they don't spend the full amount on defense since they have us.
 
Either pull out or they can pay us to be there. That's partly why the Eurotrash has all their Socialist bullshit, because they don't spend the full amount on defense since they have us.
I partially agree with this. I think NATO could and should continue to be an important military organization, basically the only thing the West has currently to offset whatever international situations that may arise. I agree all NATO members should be forced to pay in their full contribution, which I believe is X% of GDP. Many nations, including Hungary and others nag, whine and scratch their ***** and delay or offset their monetary contribution.

In my view, the NATO campaign in Kosovo was as close to ideal as can be, with the US providing logistics and central coordination, technology (AWACS) and a multi-national (mainly European) force on the ground. Money is a consideration, but so is putting soldiers lives at risk on the front lines. The NATO partner countries have been fairly solid on that end, though many countries - again, Hungary as an example - mainly sends medical and logistics support.

The bottom line is the US has the strongest, most advanced, most highly funded armed forces on the planet. It is the gold standard, and if NATO countries want US participation, they need to come up with a way to offset the costs. Within the EU there are wide discreptencies of cost allottment, as the western, more advanced countries finance basically everything for the newer, former soviet bloc nations, such as Poland and Hungary. 90% of all infrastructure projects in Hungary have been financed by Brussels over the past 10-15 years. It's easy 'playing' with other people's money, as Hungary and other Central European countries have done for the past decade.

Same goes for NATO, these countries enjoy full rights and protections offered by the alliance, but have cold feet - and significantly less capital - to pitch in. So I agree with Trump, this can go on for only so much longer. Why should US taxpayers be expected to foot the bill?

As far as the the EU, in 2020 Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic et al will no longer be 'new' member states and will lose all their extra funding, the likes of which have kept people in power, winning elections et al. Come 2020, these countries will have to pay into the central fund, as opposed to getting billions of EUR's in subsidies. Many are forecasting a dire financial situation in the region, as the EU bubble will have burst, and there isn't much left on the table.

The big picture is, both the EU and NATO in some regard have always been financed by the stronger Western nations, be it Germany, France, the Scandanavian countries and the US as a compromised solution to provide some semblence of stability and peace in the region.

It is a fairy tale to think all these countries can suddenly start 'paying in' their fair share. The whole lot of Central Europe will fall to the wayside, as their economies cannot sustain that type of military spending.
 
Tibs, you poor mindless ****, it's not the responsibility of American tax payers. Period.
 
So Indy---I guess you didn't read this part of Tibs response:

Same goes for NATO, these countries enjoy full rights and protections offered by the alliance, but have cold feet - and significantly less capital - to pitch in. So I agree with Trump, this can go on for only so much longer. Why should US taxpayers be expected to foot the bill?

NATO needs to develop a plan for the EU nations in jeopardy...And it should not necessarily mean more money thrown at them...

Maybe our new "comrades" can pitch in?
 
Tibs, you poor mindless ****, it's not the responsibility of American tax payers. Period.
You are literally the most pathetic being I've ever encountered, on or off-line. Your posts speak for themselves and are a clear indication of the type of person you are. I'm sure you are comfortable with that, playing in a pile of your own ****, rubbing it on your face, washing your armpits with your feces like a ******* monkey. Every time I read one of your sorry *** posts, I think to myself, will IndySteel ever, and I mean ever, have anything constructive to add to a conversation on this board? The answer, clearly, is no ******* way. Your soul is in a dark, dark place. Maybe with Trump in office you'll finally take a deep breath, pull your finger out of your ******* and join the rest of the adults on this board in conversation, for possibly the first time in your life. I know, that's asking a lot. In the meantime, go sit at the kiddie table where you belong, with a party hat on your head and cake on your face. ******* jackass.
 
So Indy---I guess you didn't read this part of Tibs response:

Same goes for NATO, these countries enjoy full rights and protections offered by the alliance, but have cold feet - and significantly less capital - to pitch in. So I agree with Trump, this can go on for only so much longer. Why should US taxpayers be expected to foot the bill?

NATO needs to develop a plan for the EU nations in jeopardy...And it should not necessarily mean more money thrown at them...

Maybe our new "comrades" can pitch in?

Wholly in agreement on taxing US taxpayers for this. It's no longer our responsibility. It's been our mistaken responsibility for too long. As Tibs said, you come up with a plan that is X% of GDP and roll with it. But we (the USA) have got to stop getting suckered into paying for the countries that cannot. A new plan needs to be put into place and I for one hope Trump gets us out of this mess.
 
Wholly in agreement on taxing US taxpayers for this. It's no longer our responsibility. It's been our mistaken responsibility for too long. As Tibs said, you come up with a plan that is X% of GDP and roll with it. But we (the USA) have got to stop getting suckered into paying for the countries that cannot. A new plan needs to be put into place and I for one hope Trump gets us out of this mess.

I think the answer resides - from Europe's end - in creating the type of subsidies they have for the EU as a model to work for financing NATO. If you're Germany, Austria, France, Norway, Sweden, England, et al, the question is, would you rather pay a bit more (into the NATO fund) to offset lower payments from Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia and keep most of Europe within the Western alliance, or face the situation where Central Europe is left out of NATO, and hand them back to the geopolitical sphere of Putin and Mother Russia. We know how that went during 40+ years of the Soviet Union, the Iron Curtain et al.

Whatever the case, I strongly agree with the notion it should NOT be US taxpayers that foot the bill for Europe's problems. The economies of western Europe are strong enough that they should share the extra burden of these poorer Central European countries not being able to cough up the cash. And that's a whole other story, as far as the blatant corruption and nepotism that resides in these so-called poorer countries. The ruling classes in Hungary and elsewhere are living high on the hog, building mansions, vacationing in Ibiza on yachts, stealing millions - hundreds of millions of EUR - for family and friends while crying to the West how poor they are. It's pathetic, really.

Btw the most fascinating member state of NATO is Turkey. A mostly Muslim country on the edge of Iran, Iraq, Syria et al. According to current provisions, if anyone attacked Turkey, the whole of NATO - including the US - would be obligated to come to her defense. Turkey is by far the most critical nation on the edge of Europe, one foot in Islam, one foot in the West.
 
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So Indy---I guess you didn't read this part of Tibs response:

Same goes for NATO, these countries enjoy full rights and protections offered by the alliance, but have cold feet - and significantly less capital - to pitch in. So I agree with Trump, this can go on for only so much longer. Why should US taxpayers be expected to foot the bill?

NATO needs to develop a plan for the EU nations in jeopardy...And it should not necessarily mean more money thrown at them...

Maybe our new "comrades" can pitch in?

Ah, you're right. I missed that in my eagerness to **** with Tibtard. Finally he had a rational statement. Oh well, I still got the reaction that I wanted, heh heh.
 
You are literally the most pathetic being I've ever encountered, on or off-line.

Ha ha, atta boy! Thanks for that. Getting your approval on anything would make me pause to question my values. And I'm not into scat play but thanks for letting us know where your head is. Yeesh! I don't even want to see your safe place anymore, you sick ****.
 
You are literally the most pathetic being I've ever encountered, on or off-line. Your posts speak for themselves and are a clear indication of the type of person you are. I'm sure you are comfortable with that, playing in a pile of your own ****, rubbing it on your face, washing your armpits with your feces like a ******* monkey. Every time I read one of your sorry *** posts, I think to myself, will IndySteel ever, and I mean ever, have anything constructive to add to a conversation on this board? The answer, clearly, is no ******* way. Your soul is in a dark, dark place. Maybe with Trump in office you'll finally take a deep breath, pull your finger out of your ******* and join the rest of the adults on this board in conversation, for possibly the first time in your life. I know, that's asking a lot. In the meantime, go sit at the kiddie table where you belong, with a party hat on your head and cake on your face. ******* jackass.
That's nit picking.
 
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