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Hahaha, Tomlin asked why the same problems persist or haven't been fixed.

Gildong Sack said:
Marty Ball is not a narrative, It was a thing. And sure the football was passed back then, when did the West Coast offense first appear? Yeah, in the 1970s.
So, some teams leaned more on the pass in that era, but the majority did not. The status quo was: run the ball, good defense. This was not a Steelers thing as Tomlin said when he was hired..it was a league wide thing.

West Coast replaces a lot of runs with short passes, of course.

I don't disagree with you completely. Like I said in my other post: the thing Cowher had over Tomlin is he could draft/find great players, and he let his coaches coach....he was also stubborn.
I believe he would have won another Bowl or two in the few years after his retirement, but I can also see him not getting anywhere just like Tomlin if he had to coach in this day and age.

We'll never know.
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All I'm saying is that everyone looked at the 2005 playoff run and said, oh Cowher changed his approach and came out throwing, they did come out throwing, but that wasn't new, like I said 1994 AFCCG, we threw the ball all over the lot even though we were a very good running team that season, same in 2001, we were a very good running team, but we threw the ball a ton in the AFCCG because NE was very good vs the run, we threw alot in Ben's rookie year early in games, then killed the game with the running game. That's why I say everyone just throws the Martyball narrative around without actually looking into games, mainly because he coached under Marty. No matter the era though, non franchise QB's win playoff games, so that's a piss poor excuse for Tomlin, saying he shouldn't be expected to win a playoff game because his QB. If you're a HOF Head Coach, you should be able to win a game here or there without a franchise guy, he's not even competitive.
 
Coryea said:
The Tomlin era Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson all won Super Bowls. Martyball is just a narrative that everyone likes to throw around. We threw the ball 52 times in the 1994 AFCCG and didn't trail until 10 minutes to go, 2001 AFFCG we threw the ball 28 times to 8 carries in the 1st half. Cowher absolutely would do better than Tomlin, also that Era the QB's didn't throw as much, but that meant there was more pressure on them, Aikmanx3, Young, Favre, Elwayx2, all were the winning QB's Cowher's first 7 seasons. QB's were extremely important still. We've seen Tannehill, Bortles, Jones, Mayfield, Jimmy G, Jared Goff, Watson, Luck, all win playoff games since Tomlin last won one, and some of those guys won more than once, and at least 4 of those guys won a playoff game on the road.
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Aikman= Emmitt Smith...big run blocking O-line

Steve Young= Ricky Watters( Young running the West Coast offense UNDER the creator of it. This is the leader of "passing offenses" of that era> 1991= 2,500 yards |1992 3,400 yards| 1993 4,000 yards(this is the average now for today's 17 game season) | 1994 3,900 yards(Super Bowl win)| 1995 3,200 yards | 1996 2,400 yards | 1997 3,000

Favre= Ahman Green Packers' all-time leading rusher... four-time Pro Bowler

Elway= Terrell Davis...enough said.

And all those teams had great defenses. And again stats don't tell the whole story, but they give you an idea of what the trends were.
 
Gildong Sack said:
Aikman= Emmitt Smith...big run blocking O-line

Steve Young= Ricky Watters( Young running the West Coast offense UNDER the creator of it. This is the leader of "passing offenses" of that era> 1991= 2,500 yards |1992 3,400 yards| 1993 4,000 yards(this is the average now for today's 17 game season) | 1994 3,900 yards(Super Bowl win)| 1995 3,200 yards | 1996 2,400 yards | 1997 3,000

Favre= Ahman Green Packers' all-time leading rusher... four-time Pro Bowler

Elway= Terrell Davis...enough said.

And all those teams had great defenses.
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And all those QB's made plays with their arm during their playoff run, no matter what it doesn't change the fact that a HOF QB won the Super Bowl in Cowher's first 7 or 8 seasons, you still needed a QB.

It's easier to throw ball in the NFL now more than ever, the rules are all skewed toward the offense, so it should be easier to find a serviceable QB to win a playoff game or be competitive in one.
 
Coryea said:
All I'm saying is that everyone looked at the 2005 playoff run and said, oh Cowher changed his approach and came out throwing, they did come out throwing, but that wasn't new, like I said 1994 AFCCG, we threw the ball all over the lot even though we were a very good running team that season, same in 2001, we were a very good running team, but we threw the ball a ton in the AFCCG because NE was very good vs the run, we threw alot in Ben's rookie year early in games, then killed the game with the running game. That's why I say everyone just throws the Martyball narrative around without actually looking into games, mainly because he coached under Marty. No matter the era though, non franchise QB's win playoff games, so that's a piss poor excuse for Tomlin, saying he shouldn't be expected to win a playoff game because his QB. If you're a HOF Head Coach, you should be able to win a game here or there without a franchise guy, he's not even competitive.
Click to expand...
Yeah, except the Colts were laser focused on the run with Bettis or Parker(can't remember who was in on opening drive) and that left Heath wide open...because that was our identity and what everyone expected to happen.

You are still not comprehending that outliers are not the norm.
 
Gildong Sack said:
Marty Ball is not a narrative, It was a thing. And sure the football was passed back then, when did the West Coast offense first appear? Yeah, in the 1970s.
So, some teams leaned more on the pass in that era, but the majority did not. The status quo was: run the ball, good defense. This was not a Steelers thing as Tomlin said when he was hired..it was a league wide thing.

West Coast replaces a lot of runs with short passes, of course.

I don't disagree with you completely. Like I said in my other post: the thing Cowher had over Tomlin is he could draft/find great players, and he let his coaches coach....he was also stubborn.
I believe he would have won another Bowl or two in the few years after his retirement, but I can also see him not getting anywhere just like Tomlin if he had to coach in this day and age.

We'll never know.
Click to expand...

He unfortunately only had a few years with Big Ben. Rookie year 15-1 AFCCG, year two Superbowl XL champion, year 3 Ben decides to bounce his mellon off of a car and his wife gets sick.

I think they would have done some great things for a long time. We will certainly never know for sure.


We're in uncharted territory of wtf at the moment.
 
Gildong Sack said:
Yeah, except the Colts were laser focused on the run with Bettis or Parker(can't remember who was in on opening drive) and that left Heath wide open...because that was our identity and what everyone expected to happen.

You are still not comprehending that outliers are not the norm.
Click to expand...
Exactly, Cowher took advantage of what the Colts were or weren't doing, that's what good Head Coaches do. Like in the playoffs last year, Watt was told to his Henry every play fake, Baltimore took advantage of that big time.
You are still not comprehending that the outliers occurred a lot more often than most remember.
No matter what your opinion is on Martyball or what my opinion is on Martyball, that doesn't excuse Tomlin from not winning a playoff game without a franchise QB, not only not win, but not even be competitive, especially if you're considered a HOF Head Coach.
 
Coryea said:
Exactly, Cowher took advantage of what the Colts were or weren't doing, that's what good Head Coaches do. Like in the playoffs last year, Watt was told to his Henry every play fake, Baltimore took advantage of that big time.
You are still not comprehending that the outliers occurred a lot more often than most remember.
No matter what your opinion is on Martyball or what my opinion is on Martyball, that doesn't excuse Tomlin from not winning a playoff game without a franchise QB, not only not win, but not even be competitive, especially if you're considered a HOF Head Coach.
Click to expand...
Agreed. On the not even being competitive part.
 
Steelr4evr said:
He unfortunately only had a few years with Big Ben. Rookie year 15-1 AFCCG, year two Superbowl XL champion, year 3 Ben decides to bounce his mellon off of a car and his wife gets sick.

I think they would have done some great things for a long time. We will certainly never know for sure.


We're in uncharted territory of wtf at the moment.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
 
diver said:
Cowher was great. But Chuck Noll is still the man in many ways, but one of those ways is with how they handled cheating. The Steelers had to go out to Oakland and deal with the crap the Raiders would do, but instead of whining about it or ignoring it, in the '75 AFCC game, the tarp just happened to rip, causing the areas out toward the sidelines of the field, where the Raiders made their living, to have a coating of ice. Al Davis was forever salty about it. That's how you deal with cheating.
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Or the post-game handshake with Jerry Glanville when Noll didn't let go and pulled him a little closer and told him a thing or two.
At that time Glanville's Falcons were known for dirty play.

 
Ron Burgundy said:
Or the post-game handshake with Jerry Glanville when Noll didn't let go and pulled him a little closer and told him a thing or two.
At that time Glanville's Falcons were known for dirty play.

Click to expand...

Oilers. Remember that satisfied look on Noll's face and he kinda just tossed away his headset when they beat them in the '89 playoffs on Gary Anderson's 50 yard field goal? Glanville was fired soon after. So great.
 
Ono
Coryea said:
His answer was because those same ingredients produced 6 wins too, depends how we cook. 3 of those 6 wins came from 13 turnovers in two games and another win was because the Jets Db's couldn't catch and Boz hit a 60 yarder to win it.
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Only 3 solid wins that I recall. The Colts, Clowns and Bengals.
Man I’m not sure if I buy into Bill Parcells statement that you are what your record says you are.

This has the feeling of a 3-9 team.
 
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steelersfootball4life said:
Noll built a Dynasty from scratch...
Cowher built two SuperBowl Champions, almost 3....I'd say 4.
Tomlin has built non losing seasons.
Click to expand...
Noll with a lot of help from Bill Nunn. Overlooked by other teams Nunn was the first to seriously look at players from small black colleges.
John Stallworth , Mel Blount, LC Greenwood, Donnie Shell all went to small black colleges. Although not a black college he drafted Jack Lambert from a small college. He also drafted Mean Joe and Dwight White. He then later drafted small black college player Greg Lloyd.
Thank you Bill Nunn.
 
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Coryea said:
His answer was because those same ingredients produced 6 wins too, depends how we cook. 3 of those 6 wins came from 13 turnovers in two games and another win was because the Jets Db's couldn't catch and Boz hit a 60 yarder to win it.
Click to expand...
I promise he's gone home knowing he stinks for many years and wondered how long he could stretch it out. The guy is a lazy POS.
 
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