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Mayday, mayday, OLINE needs help!

Atlsteelers

Atlsteelers

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I keep wondering what Tomlin or anyone sees in this line at this point? Green is not the answer at Center and at this point I don’t even know if he would be the answer at guard. I was a big supporter of Moore during training camp and preseason but it’s not translating to regular season. Chucks is who we all know and hate. Too slow and can’t run or pass block. Turner is not it. Dotson is the only one that looks to me as a starting lineman in the NFL.

Then to put the cherry on top after today was to hear Tomlin back this line and say he still believes in them. Don’t get me wrong I understand most of them are young and you don’t want to throw them under the bus but nobody cares. They should be called out just like anyone else.

It doesn’t matter about play calling, HOF QB, or dynamic RB if your line can’t block. Yea Ben is on his last leg. It’s obvious he’s not the same Ben as in a couple years ago but he’s trying to be a good teammate but I think he’s playing scared and has no faith in this guys up front. Which we have seen before he tries to over compensate and throws bad passes and tries to create something out of nothing and makes bad decisions which in turns hurts him and the team. Najee has nowhere to run and guys can’t get open fast enough. Unless the guys upfront change it doesn’t matter who’s calling plays or what great skill players you have on offense.
 
Atlsteelers said:
I keep wondering what Tomlin or anyone sees in this line at this point? Green is not the answer at Center and at this point I don’t even know if he would be the answer at guard. I was a big supporter of Moore during training camp and preseason but it’s not translating to regular season. Chucks is who we all know and hate. Too slow and can’t run or pass block. Turner is not it. Dotson is the only one that looks to me as a starting lineman in the NFL.

Then to put the cherry on top after today was to hear Tomlin back this line and say he still believes in them. Don’t get me wrong I understand most of them are young and you don’t want to throw them under the bus but nobody cares. They should be called out just like anyone else.

It doesn’t matter about play calling, HOF QB, or dynamic RB if your line can’t block. Yea Ben is on his last leg. It’s obvious he’s not the same Ben as in a couple years ago but he’s trying to be a good teammate but I think he’s playing scared and has no faith in this guys up front. Which we have seen before he tries to over compensate and throws bad passes and tries to create something out of nothing and makes bad decisions which in turns hurts him and the team. Najee has nowhere to run and guys can’t get open fast enough. Unless the guys upfront change it doesn’t matter who’s calling plays or what great skill players you have on offense.
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Young line. Seems there is no clear definitive leader on the Oline at the moment. This is a group who will have to figure it out. It’s just football. Rookies, growing pains, even the guys who were here last year are still maturing.


It is what it is.
 
MTC said:
Young line. Seems there is no clear definitive leader on the Oline at the moment. This is a group who will have to figure it out. It’s just football. Rookies, growing pains, even the guys who were here last year are still maturing.


It is what it is.
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Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Like you said it's just football.
 
Atlsteelers said:
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Like you said it's just football.
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I wouldn’t say excuses. I’d venture to say more like still learning. In all honesty, watching this team. They look flat out lost. That’s a lack of understanding.

I’m optimistic in that they’ll get it together. My theory is all this Canada pre motion stuff is messing with their learning curve. The only thing is will they get it together in time to compete for a playoff spot?
 
MTC said:
I wouldn’t say excuses. I’d venture to say more like still learning. In all honesty, watching this team. They look flat out lost. That’s a lack of understanding.

I’m optimistic in that they’ll get it together. My theory is all this Canada pre motion stuff is messing with their learning curve. The only thing is will they get it together in time to compete for a playoff spot?
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I honestly don't see anything much different this year compared to the last as far as play calling. I just don’t think the guys upfront are starting material in the NFL. They haven’t even put together even a quarter of football to show anything that resembles potential. I do agree that it would have helped to have them lean on some veterans but at the end of the day it’s football which most of these guys have been playing for a long time now and at some of the highest level. Green especially should not be starting and is getting physically beat and looks lost. He spending most of his time literally being knocked down and sitting on the ground.
 
Atlsteelers said:
I honestly don't see anything much different this year compared to the last as far as play calling. I just don’t think the guys upfront are starting material in the NFL. They haven’t even put together even a quarter of football to show anything that resembles potential. I do agree that it would have helped to have them lean on some veterans but at the end of the day it’s football which most of these guys have been playing for a long time now and at some of the highest level. Green especially should not be starting and is getting physically beat and looks lost. He spending most of his time literally being knocked down and sitting on the ground.
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You very well could be right. They may not be starting material. Even a casual observing fan could see how hard these guys are trying to grasp. They all look lost in picking up assignments.


Najee has no holes to run to, has a defender or 3 in his face as soon as he gets a handoff, Ben is limited on time and when he does have time, he’s looking giddy. This Oline has a lot of question marks at the moment
 
MTC said:
I wouldn’t say excuses. I’d venture to say more like still learning. In all honesty, watching this team. They look flat out lost. That’s a lack of understanding.

I’m optimistic in that they’ll get it together. My theory is all this Canada pre motion stuff is messing with their learning curve. The only thing is will they get it together in time to compete for a playoff spot?
Click to expand...
Playoffs? You want to talk about playoffs?...
(Cue meme)

Losing at home against the bungles guarantees we are not even smelling the playoffs.
 
MTC said:
I wouldn’t say excuses. I’d venture to say more like still learning. In all honesty, watching this team. They look flat out lost. That’s a lack of understanding.

I’m optimistic in that they’ll get it together. My theory is all this Canada pre motion stuff is messing with their learning curve. The only thing is will they get it together in time to compete for a playoff spot?
Click to expand...
Offensive linemen always have a big learning curve as rookies and first year starters… especially tackles and centers… many times you see guys start out as guards for a year or two and then move over…

And any time there is a totally rebuilt line you don’t see cohesive blocking for a third or even half a season… it takes time to gel

I get that the train of thought is that if we take our lumps now the back end of the season will be way better,
But the rule of building a line is you need one stud lineman, one above average guy and two regular guys to excel even if the last guy is below the line… though the lt and C better not be that guy..

You can fix one leak… not five

Assuming Turner is one anchor point we need to get somebody else

The issue is the guys available out there aren’t exactly great options either…
 
I think Greene has the potential to one day be a pro bowler the way he moves, but he isn’t strong enough yet and he is clearly overthinking things often.. and he gets out of control…

Moore still has technical things to shore up… Dotson is going to be a good guard but its his second season and im not sure he is the best option experience wise to be between two rookies

Turner is still learning the O and Chuks is a second year starter who wasn’t drafted as a physical mauler for an aggressive blocking plan…

Both “starting” TEs are not consistent blockers and the RB is a rookie trying to learn holes and nfl speed.. of the four top wrs, exactly one has played in a non randy Fitchner offense


And that is my other point… an nfl playbook for a team has hundres of plays… it’s impossible to overhaul an entire playbook in one season or even most of it… it takes multiple years to convert an offense.

Think about how many practice reps it takes for a team to get one play down… then think about how many total practices you have and how each week you need 80 to 100 plays available… of course you are using old plays… again every single oc under tomlin has had tge majority of their first season look exactly like the previous year’s offense… Fitchner looked semi competent running a lot of haleys stuff, haley looked like a deep pass addicted buffoon, arians looked like a run first Whiz…

Judging a revamped offense on the first three games is akin to quitting on Troy after his early struggles..
this Onhas some potentially great pieces in place now… they just have to get up to real nfl speed mentally and in a couple cases physically
 
Litos said:
Playoffs? You want to talk about playoffs?...
(Cue meme)

Losing at home against the bungles guarantees we are not even smelling the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Well it is certainly leaning in that direction. I think think as a fan you have to expect little to nothing and see if the **** sandwich can improve to at least a P&J. Bottom of the division sure sucks.
 
IMO, we'd be doing ourselves a favor to dip into that cash we've managed to make available by signing:

Rick Wagner - OT. Chucks is who he is. Moore, as a rookie, is better at LT than Chucks. We're ****** if Moore is hurt. Sign Wagner. Move Moore to the bench or to RG. Turner is awful and Chucks is serviceable, at best, at RT.

Mitchell Schwartz - OG. If we don't move Moore to RG and bench Turner, then sign Schwartz and bench both. We need some kind of protection for Ben's last leg.

Some of - MOST of - what ails us can be corrected by fixing the weakest links on the OL.
 
What Superman says! If this indeed is Ben’s last shot then give him some protection. He’s old, slow, and does not have the escape ability he once had so you have to provide him with the best OL possible and this ain’t it.
The people making the decisions to think this combination of OL could be the answer has to be concerning.
 
Litos said:
Playoffs? You want to talk about playoffs?...
(Cue meme)

Losing at home against the bungles guarantees we are not even smelling the playoffs.
Click to expand...
It’s a young season. Weird stuff can happen. Glass half empty/full here ;)
 
Allow me to posit my "Three-Fifths of NSync" theory...

The Steelers, as do most successful teams, usually will have 3/5 of their line comprised by 1 or 2 pro-bowlers, an average veteran, and/or a journeyman or two. Consider past Steeler OLs.... below-average guys like Beachum, Colon, Hubbard, Feiler almost always had a Pro Bowler (Faneca, DeCastro, Pouncey) "cover" for their inadequacies. Shoot, the former list of guys all did well enough to get a FA contract with other teams. This version of the Steelers OL has none of that. Turner is the only legit "veteran" and it's his first year here. Does this OL suck right now? An unequivocal "yes" is the right answer. Will it suck as much - barring injury - in week 10 and on? I'd have to say "no". They can't help but trend upwards. Time working together will do that.

</optimist post of the week>
 
My thoughts as an old decrepit center. Greene has the tools physically aside from needing to get a bit stronger base. What he is lacking and hopefully will develop is the knowledge to "run the line". That is what we really lost in losing Pouncey is the QB of the line. The center sets everything and right now Greene is lucky to know what he is doing let alone make all the calls and get everyone on the same page. He is the most important man on the line particularly with a whole new group. When he feels more comfortable as a communicator everything will change and they will start to be more cohesive. RIght now he is having to basically "fake it". My first year starting at center I was lucky to know if the play was going right or left. By the time I was a vet I was calling the protections and even pulling for traps from center. It takes awhile to get comfortable there and no one else will feel that way until he does.
 
From villy, foster pouncey, decastro as savvy bets to only turner? Of course this would be a **** sandwich , I was hoping for week 4 they might be playing like a unit but truth is that they couldn't practice together or play preseason either.

The ahitty part is of course that this is Ben's swan song, else it wouldn't matter that much with a temporary starter or a true starter with younger legs to escape pressure. Reminds me of that last Payton manning season, he had a whole O that was taylor made for him to do just enough with whatever physical skills he had left to make it to the SB.

What does Ben have? Losing pouncey and decastro was just too big of a hit for the Oline and the last one was just too late to get a decent replacement in time
 
Dotson was so busy this offseason having a chip on his shoulder about working out that he forgot he still needs to play on Sundays. He has been very underwhelming to even flat out bad at times. It's not just playing between two rookies either. Mental errors with the penalties and physically losing his one-on-one battles.
 
The offensive line is a mess. It doesn't matter if the play calling helps them or not, mostly not. YES pre-season snaps do matter, coaches had these guys (including Dan Moore) experimenting up till the end of pre-season. NOT even a chance to learn their respective spots and responsibilities.

A 3rd and a 4rth is NOT a heavy investment in the OL. I'm NOT saying they are wasted picks but I am saying the FO needed to invest heavier, whether higher draft or FA aqusition, something needed to be better. The FO and Coach expected to much for their scant basket of OL. 2 of the first three picks should have been OL or two high profile OL should have been brought in. Turner would be marginal to be one of the two but seviceable had the other one been HIGH profile.

Both Green and Moore have done well as can be expected considering their draft and rookie status. I pimped for Moore to be a starter and he is but also our best LT on the roster which gives us an indication of where this OL is. Can they (rookies) do better, hell yes but time will tell.

AS for the rest of the offense,....... it all starts in the trenches but an idiot can see that. It is also seen that they are slightly improving along the way what the real question should be is how long will it take................ I say more than this year as they will be bottom 1/3rd at best by end of year unless drastic changes are made and play calling is geared towards an identity of some kind.





Salute the nation
 
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Evidently Feiler is PFFs highest graded guard. But at least we got T Turner the spitter lol:

 
Fielier was crap last year bring in mitchell and cant hurt with Wagner, hopefully we get the big banner back and he can push the pile fwd unlike chukes finesse ***
 
F83 said:
Fielier was crap last year bring in mitchell and cant hurt with Wagner, hopefully we get the big banner back and he can push the pile fwd unlike chukes finesse ***
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The Steelers played Feiler at the wrong position last year and the overall line would've been better with him at RT. I also think playing between a very good center and a talented rookie LT has helped elevate his game. Sarrett is also in his comfort zone as assistant OL coach with LAC, clearly a difference maker for them.
 
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