October 23, 1956-2016

[Tibs]

Today marks the 60th anniversary of the '56 Hungarian Revolution. This day and the events of late October, early November impacted our entire family. My father and uncle fought in the streets of Budapest against the Soviet oppressors. Their father, my grandfather, lost his life when a Soviet tank shell hit the building he was sleeping in. After the Soviets sent in reinforcements, my father and uncle fled to Austria, where they were shot at crossing the border. As refugees, they were taken in by the Red Cross and eventually made their way to NY, then to Columbus OH. My mom came over a few years after them, and also seeked and received refugee status. They eventually moved to SF and LA, where my brother, sister and I were born.

To me, this date represents the underlying reason I became an American. I am extremely proud of the path my parents took. Their fight for freedom and democracy in their homeland, then forced to flee for their lives facing persecution, only to be welcomed in and sheltered in their new home, the true land of the free, America. My dad washed dishes, took on odd jobs, then entered university, recieved two masters then a doctorate degree. My mom worked cleaning homes, then taught piano & voice and received a masters degree in music. My father became an ordained minister, my mom the church organist and choir director. Their lives, through their bravery, persistence, hard work and strong faith represents to me the very core of American values. Our family will forever be proud and honored by both the fight for freedom by the brave Hungarians in 1956, and also for the new life and sense of hope America has provided us.

Just wanted to commemorate this day here on the board. Cheers, Tibs

 

[Tibs]

Part 2

 

[Stewey]

Its a ****** shame how the decedents of those immigrants from Eastern Europe who escaped communism are fundamentally transforming this country into what their ancestors escaped from.

You know who you are.

 

[deljzc]

It wasn't called the Greatest Generation just because of Americans.

Western/European values matter and if we don't stand up and fight for them and stop apologizing for them and start being proud of our morals and tenets the world will be a much worse place.

I can understand why you don't trust the Russians now Tibs....

 

[hamster]

The world is grateful that those Hungarian patriots were not micro-aggressed and sent scurrying to their safe spaces.

 

[DBS1970]

I salute your family Tibs. I find it odd though you seek to turn our government into what your family fought against and was forced to flee.

 

[Tibs]

I salute your family Tibs. I find it odd though you seek to turn our government into what your family fought against and was forced to flee.

Supporting progressive, liberal ideas concerning how a democracy & free-market economy should work has nothing to do with a repressive, communist system, like which my family "fought against and was forced to flee." But you know that, don't you.

 

[DBS1970]

Supporting progressive, liberal ideas concerning how a democracy & free-market economy should work has nothing to do with a repressive, communist system, like which my family "fought against and was forced to flee." But you know that, don't you.

I know just the opposite. There is nothing liberal or progressive about socialism. Socialism is soft communism waiting to turn hard. In both cases the state usurps the liberty of the individual and tightly controls the economy. The states only legitimate roll in a free market economy is to provide courts and enforce contract law that's it. The Neo-Socialist lefts Idea of how our REPUBLIC sould work is for us plebs to shut up and be told what to do by government Daleks.

The over reaching state is what your family fought against yet you are embracing it and seeking to build another one in the USA.

 

[Tibs]

The over reaching state is what your family fought against yet you are embracing it and seeking to build another one in the USA.

Complete bullshit, sorry.

 

[DBS1970]

Complete bullshit, sorry.

How is it complete bullshit? Are you going to come out with the same old tired "well the right people weren't in charge" excuse that the left always trots out? The state always turns tyrannical if it gets to big and powerful. Embrace the individual not the state man.

 

[Tibs]

How is it complete bullshit?

The fact is, the Democratic Party of the United States is the oldest voter-based political party in the world, tracing its heritage back to the 1820s. It is part of the underlying fabric of the United States. Democratic values are a core, substantive, fundamental part of what makes the United States what it is.

This weak attempt to discredit and marginalize 'liberal, progessive ideals' is an old, tired and completely useless endeveor. But guys like yourself never give up, for whatever reason.

Go ahead and try to erase these socialists from American history. According to you, they too 'turned the state tyrannical' through supporting a government that is 'too big and powerful.' Go ahead and call them anti-American. You guys on the right have lost your God damn minds.

Presidents during the 19th century

Thomas Jefferson (1801- 1809)
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Andrew Jackson (1829 – 1837)
Martin Van Buren (1837 – 1841)
James K. Polk (1845 – 1849)
Franklin Pierce (1853 – 1857)
James Buchanan (1857 – 1861)
Andrew Johnson (1865 – 1869)
Grover Cleveland ( 1885 – 1889)

Presidents during the 20th century

Woodrow Wilson ( 1913 – 1921)
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933 – 1945)
Harry S. Truman (1945 – 1953)
John F. Kennedy (1961 – 1963)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963 – 1969)
Jimmy Carter (1977 – 1981)
Bill Clinton (1993 – 2001)

Presidents during the 21st century

Barack Obama (2009 - present)

 

[deljzc]

If it only goes back to 1820's don't try to lump in our founding fathers like Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Adams into that awful group after it.

Wilson is pretty much looked at as the worst president ever. Roosevelt turned us into a socialist state that we will never escape and promoted failed Keynesian economic principles that some still erroneously hang onto. Kennedy was overrated but still a HUGE moderate.

If you want to hang your hat on Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Obama, I would argue that's EXACTLY what this country doesn't need, in any way, shape or form.

The democratic party blows.

 

[DBS1970]

The fact is, the Democratic Party of the United States is the oldest voter-based political party in the world, tracing its heritage back to the 1820s. It is part of the underlying fabric of the United States. Democratic values are a core, substantive, fundamental part of what makes the United States what it is.

This weak attempt to discredit and marginalize 'liberal, progessive ideals' is an old, tired and completely useless endeveor. But guys like yourself never give up, for whatever reason.

Go ahead and try to erase these socialists from American history. According to you, they too 'turned the state tyrannical' through supporting a government that is 'too big and powerful.' Go ahead and call them anti-American. You guys on the right have lost your God damn minds.

Presidents during the 19th century

Thomas Jefferson (1801- 1809)
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Andrew Jackson (1829 – 1837)
Martin Van Buren (1837 – 1841)
James K. Polk (1845 – 1849)
Franklin Pierce (1853 – 1857)
James Buchanan (1857 – 1861)
Andrew Johnson (1865 – 1869)
Grover Cleveland ( 1885 – 1889)

Presidents during the 20th century

Woodrow Wilson ( 1913 – 1921)
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933 – 1945)
Harry S. Truman (1945 – 1953)
John F. Kennedy (1961 – 1963)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963 – 1969)
Jimmy Carter (1977 – 1981)
Bill Clinton (1993 – 2001)

Presidents during the 21st century

Barack Obama (2009 - present)

Well for a start the the policies and platform of today's DNC is a far cry from the Jeffersonian Ideals. Grover Cleveland if memory serves is the president that vetoed the most bills in history precisely because they were unconstitutional power grabs by congress.

 

[Tibs]

The democratic party blows.

Lol, nice retort, respect for that. The basic premise still stands. Love it or hate it, liberal and progressive ideals have always been a part of American politics and governance, and that's the way it shall remain. Much to your chagrin, I know.

 

[DBS1970]

Lol, nice retort, respect for that. The basic premise still stands. Love it or hate it, liberal and progressive ideals have always been a part of American politics and governance, and that's the way it shall remain. Much to your chagrin, I know.

Yep.

There will always be a certain percentage of the population that is afraid to be free and is willing to trade liberty for subsistence.

 

[Tibs]

Yep. There will always be a certain percentage of the population that is afraid to be free and is willing to trade liberty for subsistence.

I see. So anyone who doesn't vote Republican (or isn't a far-right, tea party nutcase...or isn't an alt-right slobbering fool...or isn't supporting the total clusterfuck called the Trump campaign) can be categorically labelled as being 'afraid to be free' and 'willing to trade liberty for subsistence.' I do a lot of 'laughing out loud' when reading this board, this is one of those times.

 

[Elfiero]

If it only goes back to 1820's don't try to lump in our founding fathers like Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Adams into that awful group after it.

Wilson is pretty much looked at as the worst president ever. Roosevelt turned us into a socialist state that we will never escape and promoted failed Keynesian economic principles that some still erroneously hang onto. Kennedy was overrated but still a HUGE moderate.

If you want to hang your hat on Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Obama, I would argue that's EXACTLY what this country doesn't need, in any way, shape or form.

The democratic party blows.

But Donald Trump channeling the ghosts of Ronald Reagan and Milton Friedman is the key to freedom....................lol

 

[Tibs]

But Donald Trump channeling the ghosts of Ronald Reagan and Milton Friedman is the key to freedom....................lol

Donald Trump doesn't channel either one of them, not in his wildest dreams. Trump channels Mark Fuhrman, Alex Jones and....Mr. Burns.

****, this is turning into a Trump thread. Why stink the place up? How bout we get back to the Hungarian freedom fighters, shall we.

 

[DBS1970]

I see. So anyone who doesn't vote Republican (or isn't a far-right, tea party nutcase...or isn't an alt-right slobbering fool...or isn't supporting the total clusterfuck called the Trump campaign) can be categorically labelled as being 'afraid to be free' and 'willing to trade liberty for subsistence.' I do a lot of 'laughing out loud' when reading this board, this is one of those times.

No people calling for more government control of their daily lives, more regulation of the markets by the government and more laws that allow the government to grow more powerful are the problem. The GOP has a fair number of those as well.

 

[Elfiero]

Donald Trump doesn't channel either one of them, not in his wildest dreams. Trump channels Mark Fuhrman, Alex Jones and....Mr. Burns.

****, this is turning into a Trump thread. Why stink the place up? How bout we get back to the Hungarian freedom fighters, shall we.

I stand corrected. You are right, when Trump does mention something along the lines of what Friedman would say it has more to do with him stumbling onto it or it being whispered in his ear. Nothing to do with his knowledge of business and economics since as the record shows, he's a terrible businessman in anything that doesn't involve selling the Trump name.

I digress.

 

[Tibs]

DBS, I get your drift. But you realize there are shades of grey regarding most issues.

- people calling for more government control of their daily lives - agreed, hence why I'm pro-choice and support gay marriage.
- more regulation of the markets by the government - that depends, think of the banking, financial crisis or corrupt money in political campaigns. I'm for more regulation to protect citizens from things like that.
- more laws that allow the government to grow more powerful. - I agree, I'm against the Patriot Act, government access to private info. I also support all forms of government oversight, more public access to records, spending bills, going after corruption at all levels of government.

 

[Sarge]

, going after corruption at all levels of government.

And yet you support Hillary Clinton. Talk about laugh out loud moments.

 

[Tibs]

And yet you support Hillary Clinton. Talk about laugh out loud moments.

That's a stretch that I support Hillary Clinton. When faced with a Trump vs. Clinton ticket, any patriot would make the logical choice. It is a 'lesser-of-two-evils' situation if there ever was one.

 

[oneforthebus]

DBS, I get your drift. But you realize there are shades of grey regarding most issues.

- people calling for more government control of their daily lives - agreed, hence why I'm pro-choice and support gay marriage.
- more regulation of the markets by the government - that depends, think of the banking, financial crisis or corrupt money in political campaigns. I'm for more regulation to protect citizens from things like that.
- more laws that allow the government to grow more powerful. - I agree, I'm against the Patriot Act, government access to private info. I also support all forms of government oversight, more public access to records, spending bills, going after corruption at all levels of government.

Hillary wants the federal government to be in control of education from daycare through college and in control of the entire healthcare system. She wants the federal government controlling banks (well that's her public position anyway) and deciding how much and who can contribute to political campaigns. Control of our private retirement accounts comes next.

So she's all for abortion and gay marriage and that's what you consider freedom...very clever of them to throw you these crumbs while they control every single other aspect of your life.

 

[DBS1970]

That's a stretch that I support Hillary Clinton. When faced with a Trump vs. Clinton ticket, any patriot would make the logical choice. It is a 'lesser-of-two-evils' situation if there ever was one.

First of all let me make this disclaimer: I voted for Gary Johnson last time and I will again this time to avoid voting for the "lesser of two evils."

Donald Trump has never held public office so don't see where the comparison of Trumps alleged corruption compares to The Hildebeasts proven corruption. I understand you want to support a left wing candidate because thats how you lean. That being the case I would suggest Green Party candidate Jill Stein. If you are truly serious about picking the better candidate pick the better left candidate not the less evil major party candidate that isn't a Republican.