possible 4-3 packages

[F83]

with the talk that we will run some 4-3 and might be moving back to the 4-3 for the first time since 1992, I was just thinking of what players they can play where. Some early ideas

a hybrid tampa 2
LE Tuitt
NG Mclendon
DT Heyward
RE Jones
ROLB Timmons
MLB Shazier
LOLB Worlids

A power former 07 Bears type DL
LE Heyward
DT Mclendon
DT Mccullers
RE Tuitt
LOLB Worlids
MLB Timmons
ROLB Shazier

if Spence is 100% AND IN 2012 FORM
DE Heyward
DT Tuitt
NG Thomas
DE Worlids
LOLB Spence
MLB Shazier
Rolb Timmons


just some brainstorming you put worlids in a 2 pt stance next to thomas or mccullers and he will get free.

At the moment i only expect to see if the 4-3 is used 25% and when give mclendon some breathers and perhaps ease Mcullers in.

 

[antdrewjosh]

What talk is this????

 

[F83]

What talk is this????

Steelers might switch away from their 3-4 defense in coming years

Chaz Palla | Tribune-Review
Steelers second-round pick Stephon Tuitt works out during rookie minicamp Saturday, May 17, 2014, on the South Side.
Details
In order

Ranking the NFL's defenses in 2013:

3-4 DEFENSES

Overall Team YPG TAs

4 Saints 305.7 19

5 49ers 316.9 30

6 Cardinals 317.4 30

7 Texans 317.6 11

9 Browns 332.4 21

11 Jets 334.9 15

12 Ravens 335.5 24

13 Steelers 337.6 20

18 Redskins 354.1 26

20 Colts 357.1 27

23 Chargers 366.5 17

24 Chiefs 367.8 36

25 Packers 372.3 22

27t Falcons 379.4 21

29 Eagles 394.0 31

Average 345.9 23.3

4-3 DEFENSES

Overall Team YPG TAs

1 Seahawks 273.6 39

2 Panthers 301.3 30

3 Bengals 305.5 31

8 Giants 332.3 29

10 Bills 333.4 30

14 Titans 337.9 25

15 Rams 345.0 29

16 Lions 346.6 22

17 Bucs 348.0 31

19 Broncos 356.0 26

21 Dolphins 359.4 24

22 Raiders 363.7 22

26 Patriots 373.1 29

27t Jaguars 379.4 21

30 Bears 394.6 28

31 Vikings 397.6 20

32 Cowboys 415.3 28

Average 350.7 27.3

TAs—Takeways

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By Alan Robinson
Monday, June 16, 2014, 9:51 p.m.

The Steelers and the 3-4 defense form as indelible a partnership as there is in the NFL, a marriage of scheme and structure that's lasted through three head coaches and every trend NFL offenses could throw at it for 32 years.

The run and shoot? The read option? The spread? The wildcat? Never mattered to the Steelers — they stayed loyal to the 3-4 regardless of the NFL flavor of the day, even as offenses sped up and their own personnel slowed down.

But as the Steelers replenish a defense that was one of the NFL's best for a decade but recently isn't generating sacks or takeaways, might they be ready for a defensive cultural change?

“Mike (Tomlin), his strength is a 4-3 team,” NFL Network analyst Jamie Dukes said. “They haven't been able to find the personnel that fit the style of defense that Dick (LeBeau) likes to play.”

Some recent Steelers personnel acquisitions — mobile linebacker Ryan Shazier, 330-pounds-plus linemen Cam Thomas and Daniel McCullers, playmaking defensive end Stephon Tuitt, safety Mike Mitchell — all seem just as suited for a 4-3 as they are a 3-4.

Defensive end Cam Heyward said the Steelers already incorporate some 4-3 looks.

“I think our nickel package is more of a four-man line,” Heyward said. “If we have to beef it up, we have some different fronts where we can add another defensive lineman, take a corner or a linebacker out. It all depends on the situation.”

Such a change likely wouldn't occur until LeBeau retires as defensive coordinator, but it would be a natural fit for Tomlin — who worked with 4-3 defenses in Minnesota and Tampa Bay — and linebackers coach Keith Butler, who also has a 4-3 background.

Playing a 4-3 would allow the Steelers to drop their linebackers, including the speedy Shazier, into coverage more often to counter fast-tempo spread offenses. The primary pass-rush responsibilities would shift away from their outside linebackers, whose production has dropped off, and to their interior linemen.

Another argument for the change: Over the past two seasons, the Steelers are only 22nd in sacks and 28th in takeaways.

So are the Steelers silently gearing up to shift away from the 3-4 — the defense that is so intrinsically linked to them that, in 2001, they were the only NFL team playing it?

“The NFL is a right-now league. I don't know that you draft today, running one system, then to draft for tomorrow and project that,” said NFL Network analyst Solomon Wilcots, who once played defensive back in LeBeau's defense. “When you're going grocery shopping in the draft, you don't look for groceries in July to cook for Thanksgiving dinner.”

Despite Tomlin's strong background in the 4-3, Wilcots wonders if he would go back to it given how hyperactive offenses are becoming.

“He believes the college game gives you players that are better suited for a 3-4 defense — like he said, it's hard to find a (Hall of Fame defensive lineman) Warren Sapp,” Wilcots said. “You do find a lot of outside linebackers who can put pressure on the quarterback. The way offenses play with the spread, the defensive guys come in ready to plug and play into a 3-4.”

Statistically, there's not much difference; the NFL's 15 3-4 defenses allowed an average of 345.9 yards per game in 2013, and the 17 4-3 teams allowed 350.7. And while the top three defenses all played the 4-3, so did the bottom three.

But here's the surprise: Analytics show that neither the 3-4 nor the 4-3 is the Steelers' base defense. And neither is the base defense for any of the other 31 NFL franchises.

Welcome to the era of sub-package football, which the Steelers played more than 60 percent of the time last season — and that was lower than many teams.

“About 70 percent of the games are played in nickel and dime defense because of the way the league is,” Texans coach Bill O'Brien said.

It's also becoming the Steelers' way.

A dominating nose tackle who can control the run and occupy interior linemen to create rush lanes for the linebackers is considered a key element of the 3-4, as five-time Pro Bowl lineman Casey Hampton was for a dozen Steelers seasons. Yet his replacement, Steve McLendon, played only one-third of the Steelers' 1,093 defensive snaps last season.

“I think in today's NFL, it's about situational football and what offenses do, and how many receivers they have on the field,” Tomlin said. “Oftentimes we spend a lot of time in sub-package football, whether you are in a 3-4 or a 4-3.”

With teams passing more than ever (the pass-run balance was 57 percent-43 percent in 2013), another defensive staple, the Tampa 2 defense that Tomlin ran as the Buccaneers' secondary coach, also is emerging on the NFL's endangered species list.

Passing offenses are becoming so sophisticated that a relatively basic scheme that relies on two safeties playing back-end zone coverage to control the deep pass can't fully contain all that's thrown at it.

Last season, NFL teams threw the ball 4,265 times more than they ran it.

“Obviously, I am a fundamentalist,” Tomlin said. “And that's a very fundamental defense, so I would never say it has run its course. But I really think the emphasis in today's NFL is about sub-package football because of the number of multiple-receiver sets you see.”

As a result, the traditional base defense is fast becoming an anomaly.

“In today's NFL, most times you have five or six defensive backs on the field,” Tomlin said. “And I really think that is the discussion, as opposed to whether you are a 3-4 or a 4-3, to be honest with you.”

Alan Robinson is a staff writer for Trib Total Media. Reach him at arobinson@tribweb.com or via Twitter @arobinson_Trib.







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[insaniti]

one article quoting Jamie ******* Dukes is your "all the talk"?

 

[steelc1ty]

Every year since Tomlin became the coach lazy sports writers have been writing this type of article at this time of year because they still have deadlines and there is nothing better to write about.

 

[F83]

one article quoting Jamie ******* Dukes is your "all the talk"?

There is more articles but they can be be just heresay

 

[Litos]

nickel, heavy nickel and dime is where this discussion should go,
with shazier and timmons playing LBs in the dime we could see the front line of Tuitt, Mclendon, Heyward and Worilds, that should bring some disruption in the passing game while keeping the defense honest Vs the run. The backfield would have Ike, Gay/Shamarko, Mitchell, Polamalu and Cortez

 

[SteelerFan448]

The Steelers have been drafting guys that aren't a pure fit for the 3-4 ever since Tomlin got here (Timmons, Hood, etc.). Let's not pretend that when LeBeau retires that Tomlin is all of a sudden going to turn into Sean Peyton for the defensive side of the ball. The defensive coordinator will run the show.

 

[F83]

I Agree a man front in dime sets and some nickel sets should lead to a good pass rush, shazier can play the derrick brookes mlb role while timmons either blitzes or acts as a spy, and you could even put heyward as the 1T and tuitt as the 3T with Jones and Worlids on the edges and run some cover 2 plays.
The versatility of both shazier and tuitt make anything possible and perhaps when Lebeau retires Tomlin will take more command of the D until he feels butler can run everything as smooth as DL runs things.

Given the age of Ike and his recent moaning about his paycut, April we should see 2 CB drafted for sure and I think they are not going to be hung up on height as much as speed if the 4-3 is returning.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Given the age of Ike and his recent moaning about his paycut, April we should see 2 CB drafted for sure and I think they are not going to be hung up on height as much as speed if the 4-3 is returning.

There are many reasons that the Steelers will need to add cornerbacks next offseason, but Ike's moaning will not be one of them.

 

[FordFairLane]

I wish we would play some 3-3-5 with TP being a hybrid S/LB. Put Tuitt/Arnfelt/Thomas at LDE, McLendon at DT, and Heyward at RDE with Worilds and Jones at OLB and Shazier and Timmons at ILB and let TP read the offense. If he thinks it's a run play up at the line if he thinks it a pass try to jump a route.

 

[Steelers1356]

If they were planning a 4-3 switch anytime soon they wouldn't have drafted Jones. They also likely wouldn't have let Hood walk who would've been a better fit inside in a 4/3. If Worilds/Jones can be effective on the outside then you won't see a switch for a long time if ever.

 

[insaniti]

I wish we would play some 3-3-5 with TP being a hybrid S/LB. Put Tuitt/Arnfelt/Thomas at LDE, McLendon at DT, and Heyward at RDE with Worilds and Jones at OLB and Shazier and Timmons at ILB and let TP read the offense. If he thinks it's a run play up at the line if he thinks it a pass try to jump a route.

how is that a 3-3-5? There's four LBers there. Sounds a lot like our base defense...

 

[F83]

If they were planning a 4-3 switch anytime soon they wouldn't have drafted Jones. They also likely wouldn't have let Hood walk who would've been a better fit inside in a 4/3. .

would you have offered and gave hood the money he got, he is not worth what he got.

 

[Vader]

People have been talking about this since Tomlin was hired. The fact is that switching to a 4-3 makes no sense. They don't have 3 proven DEs let alone 4.

 

[F83]

People have been talking about this since Tomlin was hired. The fact is that switching to a 4-3 makes no sense. They don't have 3 proven DEs let alone 4.

Worlids and jones can both slide to de, both were college de's, assumption is just talking maybe 15% of the D reps at max 4-3 cover 2.

 

[Vader]

Worlids and jones can both slide to de, both were college de's, assumption is just talking maybe 15% of the D reps at max 4-3 cover 2.

Sorry but you're on crack if you think Jones can play with his hand in the grass. Jones was a 3-4 Lb in college not a DE. Worilds was a tweener and was never project to be a DE in a 4-3.

 

[F83]

this is just all heresay, there is no confirmation but just speculation we could be moving to a 4-3, i have just seen articles like the one posted and on facebook and on bleacher report. tought just get some ideas, 1 thing for sure lebeau needs to really bring the 3-3-5

 

[Wingman]

They now have several large linemen. Worilds may not be here next year. Jones rookie year did not seem to be that much of an oh look what we have in this guy endorsement of his abilities. Timmons is still consistent and reliable. Shazier looks promising. The rest of the guys are either guys or unknowns. The team has been after speed and smaller size in linebackers than we have taken in a while. It appears they have more possible players at this point in linemen than linebackers, a trend I do not remember seeing for a long time.

It seems with the amount of holding that offensive linemen are allowed to do at this time power more than speed may be what is needed to get to the passer. The defensive line of the seventies was able to rush the passer with just 4 and very seldom an additional blitzer, that would allow 7 in coverage.

It is at this point all conjecture as to what they might do or might not do but it is unusual to see so many linemen on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[slashsteel]

People have been talking about this since Tomlin was hired. The fact is that switching to a 4-3 makes no sense. They don't have 3 proven DEs let alone 4.

Agree, as the DE position is paper thin, little to no depth. Besides corner the most problematic area of the team arguably. Switch to a 4/3, no thanks !

 

[steelerscotty]

Jones in a 3 pt stance is laughable. First talk of moving him to ILB and now this? He was a OLB in college and he is an OLB now. He will either be make it as one or be a bust.

 

[jdell]

Mid-July boredom.

 

[Vader]

They now have several large linemen. Worilds may not be here next year. Jones rookie year did not seem to be that much of an oh look what we have in this guy endorsement of his abilities. Timmons is still consistent and reliable. Shazier looks promising. The rest of the guys are either guys or unknowns. The team has been after speed and smaller size in linebackers than we have taken in a while. It appears they have more possible players at this point in linemen than linebackers, a trend I do not remember seeing for a long time.

It seems with the amount of holding that offensive linemen are allowed to do at this time power more than speed may be what is needed to get to the passer. The defensive line of the seventies was able to rush the passer with just 4 and very seldom an additional blitzer, that would allow 7 in coverage.

It is at this point all conjecture as to what they might do or might not do but it is unusual to see so many linemen on the defensive side of the ball.

The same issue you have with the LBs (either guys and unknown) describes the DL to a tee. McClendon is just a guy. Tuitt is a rookie (unknown). McCullers is a 6th round pick (rookie unknown). Nobody has any idea what the DL will look like this year.

I just don't believe changing defensive philosophy is logical any time soon. Yes, they have drafted smaller LBs but that maybe due to the change in the league to more passing rather than a change in philosophy.

 

[slashsteel]

The same issue you have with the LBs (either guys and unknown) describes the DL to a tee. McClendon is just a guy. Tuitt is a rookie (unknown). McCullers is a 6th round pick (rookie unknown). Nobody has any idea what the DL will look like this year.

I just don't believe changing defensive philosophy is logical any time soon. Yes, they have drafted smaller LBs but that maybe due to the change in the league to more passing rather than a change in philosophy.

exactly someone has to counteract the pass happy schemes, that benefited from the rule changes.

Teams are forced to tweak what was to the now.....................

 

[SteelerFan448]

exactly someone has to counteract the pass happy schemes, that benefited from the rule changes.

Teams are forced to tweak what was to the now.....................

With how they played last year, the Steelers' "base package" may not truly exist anymore. You need to show so many different looks, particularly with extra defensive backs.