Sadaam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi

[6Rings]

Oh how peaceful the world would be if they were still around...

 

[Sarge]

I wonder if the families of the people they murdered feel that way.

 

[6Rings]

I know what you are saying Sarge, but it seems to me that the people in those areas have very little fight in them. It seems to me that they like being ruled with a heavy hand. The Iraqi people dropped their weapons and ran, in the face of Isis. The rest of the Muslim world have been half-assed at doing anything about Muslim extremists. Everyone is waiting for the U.S to send it's troops to be killed. The Muslims are united in condemning anyone who they feel has insulted their religion, but that unity is nowhere to be found in confronting extremists.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Muslims are united in condemning anyone who they feel has insulted their religion, but that unity is nowhere to be found in confronting extremists.

Excellent point.

 

[Rod Farva]

Yes it is. I am becoming an isolationist.

 

[Coach]

Oh how peaceful the world would be if they were still around...

The world is better off without them. But that was pre ISIS. Now it seems the best way to prevent the spread of the virus is to make sure the regional dictator type is just strong enough to keep these types of groups out.

 

[Confluence]

The world is better off without them. But that was pre ISIS. Now it seems the best way to prevent the spread of the virus is to make sure the regional dictator type is just strong enough to keep these types of groups out.

To those engaged and watching for the past couple generations, it was clear that the existence of both despots, and many more in other crappy parts of the world, was precisely because their local iron fist kept the religious fundamentalists at bay.

But then some of the sins of the past foreign policy idiocy got smart people thinking --- what if there was a better way to uplift these folks?

It might have been a great plan, but the execution has been beyond ******.

 

[21STEELERS21]

What would have happened if decades ago we invaded Ireland to depose a Protestant leader
and put the Catholics in charge? The results would be similar to Iraq.

Iraqi's identify themselves as Sunni or Shia and are different. They don't identify themselves under the broad term muslim.
If you ask an Irish person, they identify themselves as Protestant or Catholic and not by the broad term Christian.

What we did in Iraq was depose the minority Sunni leader and destroy the good lives the Sunni population was living. Taking away
their livelihoods and ability to support themselves and putting their enemy in charge of them. What did we expect, everyone to sing
Cumbia and live happily ever after.

All we did is create a bigger and messier Ireland. Denominations fighting amongst themselves. What would have happened in Apartheid times
if we invaded South Africa and deposed the white leader and put the blacks in charge. Would the white South Africans been in Love with Americans?.

 

[hamster]

There is no separation of church and state in Islam. Islam is a political ideology, and will always be in competition with any other secular form of government. Having said that, there is a sizable percentage of muslims that would prefer democracy over what ISIS provides.....which is pure Sharia. Until Islam reforms itself, and ditches it's world domination, political ambitions, there will always be an ISIS to fight. World supremacy is fundamental to Islam, so I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[MT~Forged]

I know I am in the minority here, but who ******* cares what others do in THEIR COUNTRY. I believe that if you bring that **** here, we will smoke you there. I do not care what country it is, if they allow **** to overflow into our country, we will destroy you. I do not believe that we need your permission, nor will we pay to repair or upgrade your **** hole that was just smoked. I believe we need to have the best DEFENSIVE military, and all of them should be stationed HERE IN THE US. Other countries are free to contract with PRIVATE Security companies to help them out.

The problem is our Govt wants to help political donors take advantage of those messes for PRIVATE profits.

 

[Confluence]

I know I am in the minority here, but who ******* cares what others do in THEIR COUNTRY. I believe that if you bring that **** here, we will smoke you there. I do not care what country it is, if they allow **** to overflow into our country, we will destroy you. I do not believe that we need your permission, nor will we pay to repair or upgrade your **** hole that was just smoked. I believe we need to have the best DEFENSIVE military, and all of them should be stationed HERE IN THE US. Other countries are free to contract with PRIVATE Security companies to help them out.

The problem is our Govt wants to help political donors take advantage of those messes for PRIVATE profits.

Or, you could do the like the US did during the cold war.....knowing that Canada was between the evil Soviets and the US mainland, America was happy to take part in a broader defense such that any aggression might likely occur in/over the foreign land of Canada. NORAD still exists so that Russian ICBMs can be shot down over Canada. Most Canadians have no problem with this arrangement because it is mutually beneficial, like most other foreign defense operations are supposed to be. Defining whose mutual benefit exists is the tricky thing in those other messy parts of the world.

 

[Confluence]

What would have happened if decades ago we invaded Ireland to depose a Protestant leader
and put the Catholics in charge? The results would be similar to Iraq.

Iraqi's identify themselves as Sunni or Shia and are different. They don't identify themselves under the broad term muslim.
If you ask an Irish person, they identify themselves as Protestant or Catholic and not by the broad term Christian.

What we did in Iraq was depose the minority Sunni leader and destroy the good lives the Sunni population was living. Taking away
their livelihoods and ability to support themselves and putting their enemy in charge of them. What did we expect, everyone to sing
Cumbia and live happily ever after.

All we did is create a bigger and messier Ireland. Denominations fighting amongst themselves. What would have happened in Apartheid times
if we invaded South Africa and deposed the white leader and put the blacks in charge. Would the white South Africans been in Love with Americans?.

That is horseshit. In the 70s, the US supported the oppressive despot called the Shah of Iran, because of the belief that Iran was the regional "peacekeeper" (and the Soviets were next door ******* up Afghanistan). The vast majority of the people, not on the Shah's payroll, began to stir and were easy targets for the religious leaders, especially the exiled Ayatollah Khomeni. The Americans tried power plays before and after the Shah was deposed. This included running arms to the Afghans and the Iraqis, on each flank of Iran, to keep the new government on its toes. As Charlie Wilson put it "We ****** it all up". The crazy Afghanis used their arms not on the Iranians, but to fight the Soviets, leaving the Iranians and the Iraqis to gas each others' border for years. One leader in particular in Iraq emerged, and the US supported him against the Iranians. Unfortunately, Saddam ran out of his oil money a couple times fighting the Iranians, and felt betrayed by the Americans who supported him before they ignored him. Saddam turned to the most likely source to replenish both his coffers and his oil: Kuwait. This pissed off the Saudis, who got the US to quickly eject the Iraqis from Kuwait. Too bad GHW Bush didn't have the stones to get his former friend and now enemy in Baghdad, but he sent everyone home before Wolf Blitzer could even think of embedding his ***. The entire region seemed to stabilize, but had really become much less stable because of the US's hands off policy. Religious fervor mounted, and guerilla groups found themselves with hiding places, arms and willing supporters in several countries. Because of the ****** human intelligence available, and the fact that the Germans had taught the Iranians how to build their uranium upgraders a mile underground, when 911 happened, there was only one big dog in the area. So Dubya, with the broad support of the politicians and the people in the US, went to finish his father's war. He did, and seemed likely to leave an American base in Iraq for a long time (like Japan, Korea, Germany), but then Hope and Change came along and removed the police force from the entire region. And ****** it all up, again.

 

[Coach]

To those engaged and watching for the past couple generations, it was clear that the existence of both despots, and many more in other crappy parts of the world, was precisely because their local iron fist kept the religious fundamentalists at bay.

But then some of the sins of the past foreign policy idiocy got smart people thinking --- what if there was a better way to uplift these folks?

It might have been a great plan, but the execution has been beyond ******.

At this point in time, troops on the ground are needed to help out the Arab Nations under attack by jihad types. Jordan showed a spine. Can Obama? It would not be an occupation type of war. It would be a seek and destroy. Stop the ISIS virus now.

 

[Rod Farva]

Only if the handcuffs are removed. In addition to my signature line, Col. Peters also said "Never, never, ever send American troops into a war you don't intend to win."

 

[21STEELERS21]

Confluence, what does Iran have to do with the topic. Iran is helping us fight ISIS. ISIS, Al Queda and the Taliban are all made up of fundamentalist Sunnis.
They call them Wahhabi's. All the 9/11 hijackers were Sunni's. Bin Laden was a fundamentalist Sunni. Iran is a Shia nation. ISIS, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are enemies
of Iran.

The problem here is oil. Our big friends in the Middle East are suppose to be Egypt and Saudi Arabia, but those are the two biggest Sunni nations. Saudi Arabia has Wahhabi public
schools teaching fundamentalism. Most of the terrorism is coming from these schools and nobody calls Saudi Arabia out because we want their oil on good terms. Saudi Arabia has made this mess and they should be forced to clean it up. If we had balls, we would boycott their oil. ISIS is mainly made up of Sadams Sunni military and Al Qaeda Sunnis from Saudi Arabia that came to Iraq to fight the US military.

 

[Vader]

Confluence, what does Iran have to do with the topic. Iran is helping us fight ISIS. ISIS, Al Queda and the Taliban are all made up of fundamentalist Sunnis.
They call them Wahhabi's. All the 9/11 hijackers were Sunni's. Bin Laden was a fundamentalist Sunni. Iran is a Shia nation. ISIS, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are enemies
of Iran.

The problem here is oil. Our big friends in the Middle East are suppose to be Egypt and Saudi Arabia, but those are the two biggest Sunni nations. Saudi Arabia has Wahhabi public
schools teaching fundamentalism. Most of the terrorism is coming from these schools and nobody calls Saudi Arabia out because we want their oil on good terms. Saudi Arabia has made this mess and they should be forced to clean it up. If we had balls, we would boycott their oil. ISIS is mainly made up of Sadams Sunni military and Al Qaeda Sunnis from Saudi Arabia that came to Iraq to fight the US military.

Seriously, can you think of any reason why boycotting won't work? Any at all?

 

[21STEELERS21]

I know why boycotting won't work, it's called dependency.

There is a major offensive against ISIS planned for April/May. We are training 25K of Iraq forces to team with the Kurds to
move ISIS out of Mosul. They don't want to move forward with it until we are confident the Iraq ground force is ready.

I think this is the start of the strategy to push ISIS out of Iraq and completely in Syria.

 

[ark steel]

The only time I would EVER announce a major military offensive will start in 2-3 months is if I was really starting next week. Why on earth do you tell people when you are going to attack?

 

[Vader]

I know why boycotting won't work, it's called dependency.

There is a major offensive against ISIS planned for April/May. We are training 25K of Iraq forces to team with the Kurds to
move ISIS out of Mosul. They don't want to move forward with it until we are confident the Iraq ground force is ready.

I think this is the start of the strategy to push ISIS out of Iraq and completely in Syria.

No, it won't work because oil is a world commodity. I'll try to explain this so even you can understand it. Since oil is traded all over the world it doesn't matter where the oil comes from. It's like trying to boycott the rain from Canada. Lets say you didn't buy oil from the guys you don't like... ok so China buys it and you buy your oil from another country... guess what? It doesn't matter because all you've done is shift who is buying from whom which won't change ANYTHING. Won't effect the price and won't effect the countries you are trying to punish.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Mo had an awesome fashion sense and hot bodyguards though.

 

[Sarge]

I know why boycotting won't work, it's called dependency.

There is a major offensive against ISIS planned for April/May. We are training 25K of Iraq forces to team with the Kurds to
move ISIS out of Mosul. They don't want to move forward with it until we are confident the Iraq ground force is ready.

I think this is the start of the strategy to push ISIS out of Iraq and completely in Syria.

That is if the Iraqi's stand and fight. I wouldn't bet on that.

 

[Sarge]

The only time I would EVER announce a major military offensive will start in 2-3 months is if I was really starting next week. Why on earth do you tell people when you are going to attack?

Perhaps you want it to fail. Maybe you don't really want ISIS out of Iraq, but you have to give the appearance of doing something.

Either that, or you are arrogant and incompetent.