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Something I'm getting tired of hearing

Coryea

Coryea

Nothing left to do but win the whole ******* thing
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People saying or asking if Crosby is a better player than Mario, I'm assuming these are all people that didn't see Mario in his prime, because imo there is still a decent gap between the two, Mario was just on another level.

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Mario and Sid are different style players.
Mario was more finesse and had the size to carry opposing players on his back.

Crosby is more grit imo. The guy can rush up the ice, he can control the puck along the boards etc.

The way I see it is Pittsburgh and the Pens are lucky to have these guys play for them. Both generational talents and HoFers.
 
The only player on Mario's level is Gretzky. The only thing wrong with him was his body betrayed him. This wouldn't even be a topic otherwise. Mario was the reason I even became interested in hockey.
 
Steelr4evr said:
The only player on Mario's level is Gretzky. The only thing wrong with him was his body betrayed him. This wouldn't even be a topic otherwise. Mario was the reason I even became interested in hockey.
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I kinda hate this as well. If Sid, Geno, Crovechkin, etc had the time and space Mario and Gretzky had, I think a lot of records would be in danger. The NHL has allowed and still allows its best players to be raped on the ice. ****** teams are allowed to play tackle hockey more or less. I don't think Mario and Gretzky are so much better as much as the eras they played in are completely different.
 
I remember seeing Mario get tackled a lot about halfway through his career. The playoffs it went up 3 notches. It drove him nuts. That stuff has been going on since the middle 90's. Now Gretzky I'd agree on and I'd also agree on records being broken all over if it was the way it used to be. We will never know how high the bar would have been set had Mario not gotten sick. If he had the years Jagr has had then I'd say it would be very very high

One thing is for sure. The pens have been blessed with hall of fame offensive talent over the years.
 
Steelr4evr said:
I remember seeing Mario get tackled a lot about halfway through his career. The playoffs it went up 3 notches. It drove him nuts. That stuff has been going on since the middle 90's. Now Gretzky I'd agree on and I'd also agree on records being broken all over if it was the way it used to be. We will never know how high the bar would have been set had Mario not gotten sick. If he had the years Jagr has had then I'd say it would be very very high

One thing is for sure. The pens have been blessed with hall of fame offensive talent over the years.
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The thing that amazes me is that if you watch those tapes from the 80's, Gretzky has so much room. He comes to the net and it is like the defensemen are unwilling to lay a finger on the guy. You come to the net these days, and you are getting slashed, cross checked hooked, tripped and held. I think it is harder to score 80 these days than it was to get 150 in the 80's. If the NHL would just call the penalties that are penalties, the product would improve. A guy like Connor McDavid could re-write the record book if he had the space Gretzky had.
 
The NHL protected Gretzky, you weren't allowed to touch him, and Samenko had something to do with that. Just think what Mario could do without the two line offsides which they had then, or what he could do with the sticks they use. Mario never had space, just watch a few videos on YouTube he had guys hanging off him all the time, the only space he ever had was when he created his own by embarrassed someone.
Paul Coffey says Mario would still score 160-170 points in the current NHL

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Coryea said:
The NHL protected Gretzky, you weren't allowed to touch him, and Samenko had something to do with that. Just think what Mario could do without the two line offsides which they had then, or what he could do with the sticks they use. Mario never had space, just watch a few videos on YouTube he had guys hanging off him all the time, the only space he ever had was when he created his own by embarrassed someone.
Paul Coffey says Mario would still score 160-170 points in the current NHL

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Click to expand...

No he wouldn't, and Coffee knows that is a ridiculous statement. It is ridiculous, because there is no way it can be proven.

Since 2000, the most points scored in a NHL Regular Season is 125. in seven of those seasons, the scoring leader for the year wasn't over 100 points. In fairness, none of those guys are Mario, but Mario isn't playing in a league that allows and actually promotes obstruction as something that makes the game exciting. Turn McDavid loose under 80's/90's rules. He would put up 225.
 
Since you brought up 2000, after 3 years off, Mario averaged almost 2ppg that season when he returned, that puts him at 150 points for an entire season at the age of 35, so I'd say in his prime Coffey was right on the money.

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Coryea said:
The NHL protected Gretzky, you weren't allowed to touch him, and Samenko had something to do with that. Just think what Mario could do without the two line offsides which they had then, or what he could do with the sticks they use. Mario never had space, just watch a few videos on YouTube he had guys hanging off him all the time, the only space he ever had was when he created his own by embarrassed someone.
Paul Coffey says Mario would still score 160-170 points in the current NHL

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Click to expand...

That's what stands out about Mario's highlights. The guy was skating full speed with a couple of guys trying to tackle him. If his health didn't deter him, there's no telling
 
One other point is the goalies are so much better across the league now. Back when Mario and Gretzky played, you had a couple goalies that were superstars, but the rest of the goalies were absolute trash. Now you might only have 3 or 4 teams with terrible goalies as opposed to 20. The goalies now a days aren't falling for Mario's forehand backhand move.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not discrediting the Great One or Sey Magnifique. No one saw those moves at the time, at that speed with that size and control. Now you have 3rd liners who can dangle the puck, because they learned their moves watching the best of the 80s/90s. They were absolute game changers.
 
Steelr4evr said:
The only player on Mario's level is Gretzky. The only thing wrong with him was his body betrayed him. This wouldn't even be a topic otherwise. Mario was the reason I even became interested in hockey.
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Gretzky was above all.

Bobby Orr
Gordie Howe
Mario Lemieux*, **
Rocket Richard

* Because of Lemiux's history post playing career, he is clearly the greatest player to move into ownership. Not even close.
** Lemieux's career best goal was in the Canada Cup winning goal in '87, on a feed from Gretzky.
 
When Mario retired in 1997 he averaged 2ppg, higher than even Gretzky, Mario was the most talented player ever, he couldn't tie his own skates in the 90's.
So I guess we can say Mel Blounts wasn't that good because qb's then weren't as good as today?
Mario did alot more than dangle, he was the greatest goal scorer ever. Wayne played on a damn all star team.
Also it's just not the goalies, but teams play far more defensive now, but the year Mario had a huge season those pens avg .8 goals a game more than this year's Pens, every one makes it sound like those team were scoring 6 or 7 goals a game.

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Coryea said:
When Mario retired in 1997 he averaged 2ppg, higher than even Gretzky, Mario was the most talented player ever, he couldn't tie his own skates in the 90's.
So I guess we can say Mel Blounts wasn't that good because qb's then weren't as good as today?
Mario did alot more than dangle, he was the greatest goal scorer ever. Wayne played on a damn all star team.
Also it's just not the goalies, but teams play far more defensive now, but the year Mario had a huge season those pens avg .8 goals a game more than this year's Pens, every one makes it sound like those team were scoring 6 or 7 goals a game.

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ummm..... check the NHL goalscoring record for most in a season. And fastest to 50.

Next?
 
Ok so Emmitt Smith is the best RB ever? So Kareem, Malone, Bryant are all better than Jordan?

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Coryea said:
So you're saying McDavid is better than Mario?

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Hard to say. Different eras. But what I do know is that McDavid has the size, skill and Speed. Speed that Mario couldn't touch. His hands are just as good, and if he could go up and down the ice without getting mugged, I would think he would be more productive. You should watch him play. The guy is that good. I think in the 80's, MCDavid is on par with Lemieux and Gretzky at least.

Look, I agree that Mario and Gretzky are two of the greatest ever to play the game. I also acknowledge that Lemieux and Gretzky also benefited from a wide open era of hockey where superstars could (mostly) skate with impunity through (mostly) mediocre defensemen and score on (mostly) mediocre goalies. The game has changed. Most teams have at least a star goalie anymore and at least a good top defensive pairing whose sole job is to clutch, grab and obstruct the other team's superstar forwards. Could you imagine Gretzky playing today? He'd get killed.
 
Coryea said:
Since you brought up 2000, after 3 years off, Mario averaged almost 2ppg that season when he returned, that puts him at 150 points for an entire season at the age of 35, so I'd say in his prime Coffey was right on the money.

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Click to expand...

Paul Coffey says Mario would still score 160-170 points in the current NHL
Click to expand...

You said current NHL. 2000 is not current. Not even close. As bad as it was in 2000, the level of obstruction today is far worse. Mario would still be a great player in today's NHL, no doubt. But 160-170 points? LOL.
 
McDavids hands don't touch Mario's, his skating is amazing, did you see Mario pre back disease? Honestly? He was one of the fastest guys on the ice.

Space? You don't think Mario would benefit from no two line offsides or sticks that almost bend in half to get more speed on your shot.

Here are his top 10 from 84-92, he's being hooked, slashed, tripped, held on all but maybe 2.

https://youtu.be/7oZJ5GonG5Y

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Coryea said:
McDavids hands don't touch Mario's, his skating is amazing, did you see Mario pre back disease? Honestly? He was one of the fastest guys on the ice.

Space? You don't think Mario would benefit from no two line offsides or sticks that almost bend in half to get more speed on your shot.

Here are his top 10 from 84-92, he's being hooked, slashed, tripped, held on all but maybe 2.

https://youtu.be/7oZJ5GonG5Y

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Click to expand...

We are obviously not going to agree on this. I would just love to see McDavid, Crosby, Malkin etc get to play in the 80's. GAWD.
 
True, but the game was far more violent then too, on the flip I'd like to see Mario without two line offsides or with these sticks that allow players to really whip a wrister.
I guess you could say that for most sports, like Ben playing QB in the 70's, he'd be the biggest guy on the team, but that's what makes Mario so ridiculous, he was a physical freak then with his size and skill, he'd still be that in today's nhl

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