• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Steelers should be better than Mike Tomlin has made them

Spike

Regular Member
Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
24,914
Reaction score
11,537
Points
113
Arguing about whether the Pittsburgh Steelers should keep Mike Tomlin is more volatile than any political discussion I can fathom.

Sides have been drawn. Heels are dug in. You are pro-Tomlin or anti-Tomlin.

There is no gray area anymore. I tried to live in it for a while.

Frankly, there should be a middle ground. Because Tomlin has a resume worth defending: two Super Bowl trips with one victory, six division titles, 12 years without a losing season.

However, over the last decade, that resume also includes almost as many seasons without the playoffs (four) as with them (six). Only three of those 10 seasons have featured at least one postseason win.

Most disturbingly, those seven seasons without a playoff victory have come during a stretch of time when the Steelers have had the NFL's most coveted possession: a Hall of Fame quarterback. That's not to mention scores of other talented players over the years.

Just look at this failed 2018 season. A team good enough to be 7-2-1 beyond the halfway point blew numerous leads, occasionally against inferior teams. As a result, it's sitting at home, eliminated short of the playoffs.

It's tough to fault the construction of the roster or the individual accomplishments of its players. The team boasts six Pro Bowlers, which doesn't even include:

• The team MVP: JuJu Smith-Schuster

• The 5,000-yard passer: Ben Roethlisberger

• The guy many consider to be the best defensive player on the roster: Joe Haden

• The linebacker with the eighth-best sack total in the league: T.J. Watt

When talent of that caliber fails to win, a lot of the blame should fall on the coach. And none of that is to mention the embarrassment bestowed upon the organization with his failure to manage his ego-driven stars.

Many of those key players generating negative headlines and distractions on a weekly basis — Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown, Martavis Bryant and Le'Veon Bell — received only the slightest of discipline or public admonishment from Tomlin. In fact, he was often their biggest defender.

Why stop at the roster? Extend criticism of off-field behavior to his past and present assistant coaches, such as Todd Haley and Joey Porter.

For all those reasons, I'm now in favor of a change. I think the Steelers should be better.

And I'm phrasing that way for a reason. I truly believe that. The Steelers SHOULD ... BE ... BETTER.

In many ways.

I won't condemn Tomlin's qualities as a person or a coach as many detractors are doing. I refuse to marginalize his accomplishments with that tired and inaccurate "he only did it with Cowher's players" line. I'll recognize that Tomlin has had success, although not enough.

Certainly not enough lately for an organization that expects to be elite.

Unfortunately, though, it's politics now. When people try to sell something political, they often exaggerate to make their point. Tomlin critics are guilty of that.

But so are his defenders. The worst thing I keep hearing from that camp is: "You can't fire him because he's won a championship. You don't know if the next guy is going to do any better. Who are you going to get? Someone who has been fired before?"

Exactly. Kind of like how the Penguins got rid of a guy with a nearly identical resume to Tomlin's in Dan Bylsma. Then — after Mike Johnston — they stumbled onto former Bruins head coach Mike Sullivan.

Too bad that bum didn't work out, huh?

"OK. That's an exception. If you can't get a guy like that, you'll have to hire someone with no prior experience."

Yeah. Precisely. A person with no previous head coaching experience. Such as, well ... Mike Tomlin?

Or maybe a couple of guys named Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll?

We could also be less provincial and more current about that list and add names such as Frank Reich, Sean McVay and Doug Pederson.

What are those people suggesting? The Steelers, a team with more Super Bowl titles than anyone else, should be content with inconsistency and mediocrity because they are afraid of trying to get better?

That's an incredibly cowardly, small-minded, and counterintuitive way of thinking. It's especially shortsighted given the Steelers are pretty good at identifying coaching talent.

In the Super Bowl era, there have been only three Steelers coaches. All three have won titles. By comparison, since Noll was hired in 1969, there has been more change in the Vatican than there has been on the Steelers sideline.

Popes, 5. Steelers head coaches, 3.

Maybe that analogy hits a little too close to home. Because at this point, the Steelers may need some divine intervention if they stick with Tomlin as coach.

Art Rooney II will do just that, though. Because those are his convictions.

Understandable.

If some Steelers fans support that plan because of Tomlin's past success, so be it.

Just don't tell me it's wrong to suggest the Steelers may do better by moving on. Because the track record in this city suggests that could be the case.

https://triblive.com/sports/columni...ould-be-better-than-mike-tomlin-has-made-them

--------------------------------


Civil War!
 
Steelers should be better than Mike Tomlin has made them


I read that and needed no confirmation after it.

Someone get Rooney on the phone he has some splainin to do Lucy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MTC
Tomlin is a defensive guy, was a defensive coach from 2002-2006, yet our defense still sucks.
Everyone likes to bring up Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy only winning one Super Bowl, but their offensive guys, their offenses were always good. They weren't losing because the side of the ball they are known for was bad.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
OK, I get that hiring a new head coach is a crap shoot. So is a first round draft pick but if he doesn't work out he's gone in five years - or four if you don't pick up the option. Why should a head coach be sacred? If you don't want to fire Tomlin, hire a bunch of assistants to do all the work and keep him on as a figure head with no real authority. I hate the idea that Ben will be gone long before Tomlin leaves. The Browns wised up, the Bengals wised up, how long do we want to be the cellar dwellers in the AFC North?
 
This Pgh.media is a total joke when it comes to Tomlin. Constantly make excuses for Tomlin; get him someone to control challenges, get him someone to manage the game clock and game management, come on. He's enabled AB's behavior and I still can't get over last years Jax playoff game where he had hos team looking ahead to the Pats, plus LevBell misses Saturday walk through and comes late on game day with no repercussions. Thats a total lack of respect for your coach but no, the local media other than Madden keep defending him.
 
Tomlin is a defensive guy, was a defensive coach from 2002-2006, yet our defense still sucks.
Everyone likes to bring up Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy only winning one Super Bowl, but their offensive guys, their offenses were always good. They weren't losing because the side of the ball they are known for was bad.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

Yeah, he was a defensive guy alright. His only year as a defensive coordinator with the Vikings they had like the 31'st ranked defense. This guy imo has not grown as a head coach and has actually gotten worse. He is no defensive genius by any means.
 
Yeah, he was a defensive guy alright. His only year as a defensive coordinator with the Vikings they had like the 31'st ranked defense. This guy imo has not grown as a head coach and has actually gotten worse. He is no defensive genius by any means.
I totally agree the defense has gotten worse under him. And we've wasted 4 first round picks on defensive busts

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
I fully expect that we will be having this conversation again a year from now. Hopefully, it will have more relevance then.
 
  • Like
Reactions: xjx
i have been listening to pitt radio the last couple weeks and i cant believe how bad it is. third rate at best the should all be ashamed of themselves and feel bad thats what choices you guys have. i put it on for a little bit my employees and i laugh our ***'s off at them and what a joke it is
 
Tim Benz is awesome. I listen to him every chance I get. He is one of just a few in the Pittsburgh media who are willing to call out Tomlin. Benz has been doing it for years.
 
Arguing about whether the Pittsburgh Steelers should keep Mike Tomlin is more volatile than any political discussion I can fathom.

Sides have been drawn. Heels are dug in. You are pro-Tomlin or anti-Tomlin.

There is no gray area anymore. I tried to live in it for a while.

Frankly, there should be a middle ground. Because Tomlin has a resume worth defending: two Super Bowl trips with one victory, six division titles, 12 years without a losing season.

However, over the last decade, that resume also includes almost as many seasons without the playoffs (four) as with them (six). Only three of those 10 seasons have featured at least one postseason win.

Most disturbingly, those seven seasons without a playoff victory have come during a stretch of time when the Steelers have had the NFL's most coveted possession: a Hall of Fame quarterback. That's not to mention scores of other talented players over the years.

Just look at this failed 2018 season. A team good enough to be 7-2-1 beyond the halfway point blew numerous leads, occasionally against inferior teams. As a result, it's sitting at home, eliminated short of the playoffs.

It's tough to fault the construction of the roster or the individual accomplishments of its players. The team boasts six Pro Bowlers, which doesn't even include:

• The team MVP: JuJu Smith-Schuster

• The 5,000-yard passer: Ben Roethlisberger

• The guy many consider to be the best defensive player on the roster: Joe Haden

• The linebacker with the eighth-best sack total in the league: T.J. Watt

When talent of that caliber fails to win, a lot of the blame should fall on the coach. And none of that is to mention the embarrassment bestowed upon the organization with his failure to manage his ego-driven stars.

Many of those key players generating negative headlines and distractions on a weekly basis — Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown, Martavis Bryant and Le'Veon Bell — received only the slightest of discipline or public admonishment from Tomlin. In fact, he was often their biggest defender.

Why stop at the roster? Extend criticism of off-field behavior to his past and present assistant coaches, such as Todd Haley and Joey Porter.

For all those reasons, I'm now in favor of a change. I think the Steelers should be better.

And I'm phrasing that way for a reason. I truly believe that. The Steelers SHOULD ... BE ... BETTER.

In many ways.

I won't condemn Tomlin's qualities as a person or a coach as many detractors are doing. I refuse to marginalize his accomplishments with that tired and inaccurate "he only did it with Cowher's players" line. I'll recognize that Tomlin has had success, although not enough.

Certainly not enough lately for an organization that expects to be elite.

Unfortunately, though, it's politics now. When people try to sell something political, they often exaggerate to make their point. Tomlin critics are guilty of that.

But so are his defenders. The worst thing I keep hearing from that camp is: "You can't fire him because he's won a championship. You don't know if the next guy is going to do any better. Who are you going to get? Someone who has been fired before?"

Exactly. Kind of like how the Penguins got rid of a guy with a nearly identical resume to Tomlin's in Dan Bylsma. Then — after Mike Johnston — they stumbled onto former Bruins head coach Mike Sullivan.

Too bad that bum didn't work out, huh?

"OK. That's an exception. If you can't get a guy like that, you'll have to hire someone with no prior experience."

Yeah. Precisely. A person with no previous head coaching experience. Such as, well ... Mike Tomlin?

Or maybe a couple of guys named Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll?

We could also be less provincial and more current about that list and add names such as Frank Reich, Sean McVay and Doug Pederson.

What are those people suggesting? The Steelers, a team with more Super Bowl titles than anyone else, should be content with inconsistency and mediocrity because they are afraid of trying to get better?

That's an incredibly cowardly, small-minded, and counterintuitive way of thinking. It's especially shortsighted given the Steelers are pretty good at identifying coaching talent.

In the Super Bowl era, there have been only three Steelers coaches. All three have won titles. By comparison, since Noll was hired in 1969, there has been more change in the Vatican than there has been on the Steelers sideline.

Popes, 5. Steelers head coaches, 3.

Maybe that analogy hits a little too close to home. Because at this point, the Steelers may need some divine intervention if they stick with Tomlin as coach.

Art Rooney II will do just that, though. Because those are his convictions.

Understandable.

If some Steelers fans support that plan because of Tomlin's past success, so be it.

Just don't tell me it's wrong to suggest the Steelers may do better by moving on. Because the track record in this city suggests that could be the case.

https://triblive.com/sports/columni...ould-be-better-than-mike-tomlin-has-made-them

--------------------------------


Civil War!
Obviously

Sent from my SM-G950U using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
Arguing about whether the Pittsburgh Steelers should keep Mike Tomlin is more volatile than any political discussion I can fathom.

Sides have been drawn. Heels are dug in. You are pro-Tomlin or anti-Tomlin.

There is no gray area anymore. I tried to live in it for a while.

Frankly, there should be a middle ground. Because Tomlin has a resume worth defending: two Super Bowl trips with one victory, six division titles, 12 years without a losing season.

However, over the last decade, that resume also includes almost as many seasons without the playoffs (four) as with them (six). Only three of those 10 seasons have featured at least one postseason win.

Most disturbingly, those seven seasons without a playoff victory have come during a stretch of time when the Steelers have had the NFL's most coveted possession: a Hall of Fame quarterback. That's not to mention scores of other talented players over the years.

Just look at this failed 2018 season. A team good enough to be 7-2-1 beyond the halfway point blew numerous leads, occasionally against inferior teams. As a result, it's sitting at home, eliminated short of the playoffs.

It's tough to fault the construction of the roster or the individual accomplishments of its players. The team boasts six Pro Bowlers, which doesn't even include:

• The team MVP: JuJu Smith-Schuster

• The 5,000-yard passer: Ben Roethlisberger

• The guy many consider to be the best defensive player on the roster: Joe Haden

• The linebacker with the eighth-best sack total in the league: T.J. Watt

When talent of that caliber fails to win, a lot of the blame should fall on the coach. And none of that is to mention the embarrassment bestowed upon the organization with his failure to manage his ego-driven stars.

Many of those key players generating negative headlines and distractions on a weekly basis — Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown, Martavis Bryant and Le'Veon Bell — received only the slightest of discipline or public admonishment from Tomlin. In fact, he was often their biggest defender.

Why stop at the roster? Extend criticism of off-field behavior to his past and present assistant coaches, such as Todd Haley and Joey Porter.

For all those reasons, I'm now in favor of a change. I think the Steelers should be better.

And I'm phrasing that way for a reason. I truly believe that. The Steelers SHOULD ... BE ... BETTER.

In many ways.

I won't condemn Tomlin's qualities as a person or a coach as many detractors are doing. I refuse to marginalize his accomplishments with that tired and inaccurate "he only did it with Cowher's players" line. I'll recognize that Tomlin has had success, although not enough.

Certainly not enough lately for an organization that expects to be elite.

Unfortunately, though, it's politics now. When people try to sell something political, they often exaggerate to make their point. Tomlin critics are guilty of that.

But so are his defenders. The worst thing I keep hearing from that camp is: "You can't fire him because he's won a championship. You don't know if the next guy is going to do any better. Who are you going to get? Someone who has been fired before?"

Exactly. Kind of like how the Penguins got rid of a guy with a nearly identical resume to Tomlin's in Dan Bylsma. Then — after Mike Johnston — they stumbled onto former Bruins head coach Mike Sullivan.

Too bad that bum didn't work out, huh?

"OK. That's an exception. If you can't get a guy like that, you'll have to hire someone with no prior experience."

Yeah. Precisely. A person with no previous head coaching experience. Such as, well ... Mike Tomlin?

Or maybe a couple of guys named Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll?

We could also be less provincial and more current about that list and add names such as Frank Reich, Sean McVay and Doug Pederson.

What are those people suggesting? The Steelers, a team with more Super Bowl titles than anyone else, should be content with inconsistency and mediocrity because they are afraid of trying to get better?

That's an incredibly cowardly, small-minded, and counterintuitive way of thinking. It's especially shortsighted given the Steelers are pretty good at identifying coaching talent.

In the Super Bowl era, there have been only three Steelers coaches. All three have won titles. By comparison, since Noll was hired in 1969, there has been more change in the Vatican than there has been on the Steelers sideline.

Popes, 5. Steelers head coaches, 3.

Maybe that analogy hits a little too close to home. Because at this point, the Steelers may need some divine intervention if they stick with Tomlin as coach.

Art Rooney II will do just that, though. Because those are his convictions.

Understandable.

If some Steelers fans support that plan because of Tomlin's past success, so be it.

Just don't tell me it's wrong to suggest the Steelers may do better by moving on. Because the track record in this city suggests that could be the case.

https://triblive.com/sports/columni...ould-be-better-than-mike-tomlin-has-made-them

--------------------------------


Civil War!
Tomlin BLOWS and always has. When the Vikings unloaded their worse coach my friend Eddie was laughing his *** off because we got him. Ever since he's been ****. The team that was already here made him look good bit eventually hos work took over. Since 2010 the Steelers have lost 9 years with really good teams that were held back by the head coach. Who doesn't remember Herm Edwards and his Cancer of a coach still reaking Havok with the Jets. So when Tomlin is finally fired hos stink will e around for years. No really good players want to play for a team who makes really bad choices. Any Tomlin lovers are complete IDIOTS. Save your comments because I don't listen to morons and I don't read comments on anything I write.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
Hit me hard. What would be refreshing if this Rooney would step up with all the stuff with Brown and his twitter mouth, clean house. Get a new coach, get a defensive coach worth a salt and fins some specialty coaches that can actually teach a player how to get better. Tired of Bell talk and now Brown full of himself and his total disrespect to the team, owners coaches and fans. Tomlin may have a good record but just look at how Bell was handled, Brown now and end of last year and don't forget Blount after the Carolina game leaving the team and smarter than Bell on the drug suspension. This team in total collapse as of now, if changes are needed then make them, not OK we fired Porter who now as of team players was pulling a fast one in the locker room. .Tomlin demands and gets no discipline out of the players
 
Maybe we could trade him. LOL
 
I like how people want to get people to make the decisions on things because the HC can’t get it right, but think he should still be the HC.
 
Mike Tomlin established himself in the league as a secondary coach, but the secondary has been a weak spot since the page flipped on the Cowher DBs more than five years ago. That alone SHOULD tell any objective observer all he needs to know about Mike Tomlin as a coach.

Yeah, the guy's never had a losing season. The truth is that he shouldn't have one, given the talent level on the team year after year. The ultimate measure of a coach should be how well he maximizes the talent he has to work with, and Tomlin just isn't getting it done, folks, and he hasn't for nearly a decade now.

More recently, the Steelers have gotten demolished in the AFCC game in 2016, embarrassed at home in the divisional round in 2017, and failed to make the playoffs in 2018 with the team in disarray from a chemistry/morale perspective.

The arrow is clearly pointing down with the QB window closing.

Seriously, one really has to reach for a legitimate reason to keep the guy around at this point.
 
I like how people want to get people to make the decisions on things because the HC can’t get it right, but think he should still be the HC.

It's because of social engineering. Can't even have a cereal commercial these days without meeting the melanin diversity quota
 
Seriously, one really has to reach for a legitimate reason to keep the guy around at this point.

Since we can't name another coach with 100% certainty that he'll be as good as Tomlin then Tomlin must be kept. Hell it takes a special coach to win 3 playoff games in 8 years with a HOF QB and an offense riddled with pro-bowl players.
 
I know hockey is a different animal, but when the Penguins realized Stanley Cup winning Dan Bylsma was at his max with the Pens they made a change (an awful one, but a change). They pretty quickly admitted that mistake and brought in the right fit to get the team back on track and it paid off in a big way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MTC
This Pgh.media is a total joke when it comes to Tomlin. Constantly make excuses for Tomlin; get him someone to control challenges, get him someone to manage the game clock and game management, come on. He's enabled AB's behavior and I still can't get over last years Jax playoff game where he had hos team looking ahead to the Pats, plus LevBell misses Saturday walk through and comes late on game day with no repercussions. Thats a total lack of respect for your coach but no, the local media other than Madden keep defending him.

This.


He's instigating bad behavior by no repercussion whatsoever.
The struggle and under achievment of the team since the last super bowl appearance is enough proof as well
 
Pens n Steelers couldn't be more different.

Pens have no problem going for blockbuster free agent deals every year to improve the team while keeping their core players.
 
I know hockey is a different animal, but when the Penguins realized Stanley Cup winning Dan Bylsma was at his max with the Pens they made a change (an awful one, but a change). They pretty quickly admitted that mistake and brought in the right fit to get the team back on track and it paid off in a big way.

There are strong parallels between Bylsma and Tomlin, but as Spike alluded, the franchises operate completely different.

The Penguins have shown they're not afraid of disrupting the status quo, while the Rooney's are seemingly conservative to a fault.

The fact Tomlin still seems "snug as a bug" comfortable in his job is frustrating the hell out of fans and is building a lot of ire toward ownership.
 
Bump!!

Its disgusting how in the media they have shifted so quickly from why cant Tonlin's Steelers top 5 roster make the playoffs and collapsed after 7-2-1 to focusing on Antonio Browns social media accounts and what a bad leader Ben is

Colts and Texans getting ready to kick off, would any gm in their right mind want either of their rosters over the Steelers??

Tomlin sucks, he is the root of this problem
 
Last edited:
Top