Want to see what Single Payer Healthcare will cost you????

[Turd Ferguson]

The tree-hugging state of Vermont decided today to scrap the single-payer Healthcare model they wanted to implement by 2017. Bottom-line, the state would need to add almost a 22% tax hike on everyone in addition to their State/Federal and SSI contributions. Basically, my bi-weekly health insurance cost would go from $223.00 every other week to $930.00!!!! Who the heck came up with this? Had to be some elected functional retard.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...care-over-ballooning-costs/?intcmp=latestnews

 

[Troglodyte]

$22k a year? You sure about that? I'm not defending it but I would think it would be somewhat comparable to what you pay now if not cheaper. Access should be what changes.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Did you read the article? The State would have to charge and additional 11.5% payroll and 9.5% tax to boot to meet cost.

 

[ark steel]

$22k a year? You sure about that? I'm not defending it but I would think it would be somewhat comparable to what you pay now if not cheaper. Access should be what changes.

When you have to cover everyone, which means including pre-existing conditions, the costs absolutely, undeniably, can in no way go down. Now layer in increased government beauracracy which makes political rather than economics based decisions and the cost will be even higher. Theoretically, you might have savings in other places to offset some of these additional costs. Government is not fond of lowering it's intake, so that money will get spent somewhere else.

 

[Superman]

well, $400k is the median income, so what's $900/week when you're banking that?

 

[21STEELERS21]

Vermont is too small to make single payer work, so looking at their numbers is irrelevant.

Here is a real life example to ponder: There is a single lady with 3 kids in my office who is about 40 years old and makes 38K per year with health insurance.
My company pays $1,350 per month for her insurance or $16,200 annually. US per capita cost of healthcare is nearly double most other advanced countries.
If our costs were similar to other countries, my employer could afford to pay this lady another $8,100 per year. If the employer was not responsible for employee
healthcare as in many other countries, my employer could afford to pay this lady another $16,200 annually.

The problem in the USA is that most employees don't see what the employer is paying on their behalf. Our per capita costs have gone from $1,000 in 1980 to over
$8,700 in 2014. Many employers have absorbed that rapid inflation and cut back on raises. In essence, healthcare inflation has eaten the middle class. If our healthcare
costs were in-line with other countries, each working American could have a lot more money in their paychecks.

You can argue for decades how you get costs down and how you pay for insurance or you can copy the country that does it best currently.

 

[Superman]

so you honestly believe that if a company COULD pay it's workers more that it WOULD pay it's workers more ... just because?

when does your book debut on the NY Times Bestseller list?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Maybe that's the real reason why my ex-wife just moved back to the Pittsburgh area from Vermont.

 

[Superman]

look at Ron trying to get a menage a' trois going with ex-Burgundy and the current-Burgundy

 

[ark steel]

Vermont is too small to make single payer work, so looking at their numbers is irrelevant.

Here is a real life example to ponder: There is a single lady with 3 kids in my office who is about 40 years old and makes 38K per year with health insurance.
My company pays $1,350 per month for her insurance or $16,200 annually. US per capita cost of healthcare is nearly double most other advanced countries.
If our costs were similar to other countries, my employer could afford to pay this lady another $8,100 per year. If the employer was not responsible for employee
healthcare as in many other countries, my employer could afford to pay this lady another $16,200 annually.

The problem in the USA is that most employees don't see what the employer is paying on their behalf. Our per capita costs have gone from $1,000 in 1980 to over
$8,700 in 2014. Many employers have absorbed that rapid inflation and cut back on raises. In essence, healthcare inflation has eaten the middle class. If our healthcare
costs were in-line with other countries, each working American could have a lot more money in their paychecks.

You can argue for decades how you get costs down and how you pay for insurance or you can copy the country that does it best currently.

Or you can learn the difference between the word "cost" and the phrase "price you pay"...

 

[Ron Burgundy]

look at Ron trying to get a menage a' trois going with ex-Burgundy and the current-Burgundy

Not a chance. Even if I liked her, she's gotten way too fat.

 

[Steeltime]

Vermont is too small to make single payer work, so looking at their numbers is irrelevant.

Dude - Vermont currently has health insurance in effect in the state.

Federal regulations make it very difficult for insurance carriers to sell health insurance across state lines, and therefore, basically all health insurance in the United States is sold and run on a state-by-state basis.

Since Vermont already has health insurance in effect, and since that insurance is limited to the state of Vermont, the current medical insurance carriers in Vermont prove you 100% wrong, since those insurers - insuring far less than the entire state population - are currently providing health insurance at market rates.

 

[Hineswardkickedurpanzyass]

VT is LESS than 2x the size of the county I live in VA so yeah I can see 21's point on it not being a good sample....but man is VT WHITE! White alone, percent, 2013 (a) 95.2% <--from wiki.

As for the 21 story about someone in his office....yeah, our healthcare is out of control. Know why? because Mexicans come here and get free healthcare, some cracker in VT has to pay for that. Feel free to discuss.

 

[jitter77]

well, $400k is the median income, so what's $900/week when you're banking that?

Wonder if they count the homeless, people on welfare, and illegal immigrants who make $0.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Typical liberal response. When their ideas don't work, they claim it failed because they didn't do it enough.

These stats that libs love to quote only look at raw numbers with no context. The context being quality of care. By liberal standards, McDonald's is the best restaurant in the world because they feed the most people at lowest cost.

Never forget, that all liberal ideas boil down to one thing. Tearing down, not lifting up. They see a guarantee of ****** service to all people as a superior system to one which offers excellent service to the vast majority and requires help for the small minority that needs it.

There are public defenders for people who can't afford lawyers. They are usually not as good as private attorneys. Libs are bragging that they are going to do away with private lawyers and stick everybody with a public defender. With the ruling class exempted of course.

The other part of their plan is to simply pay Doctors less. **** those rich people exploiting poor folks. Fine, maybe that works for a few years, but what happens when smart people are choosing a major in college? Should I go hundreds of thousands in debt for med school, then work long hours with high stress life and death implications so that i can make as much as a mailman?

 

[Troglodyte]

The other part of their plan is to simply pay Doctors less. **** those rich people exploiting poor folks. Fine, maybe that works for a few years, but what happens when smart people are choosing a major in college? Should I go hundreds of thousands in debt for med school, then work long hours with high stress life and death implications so that i can make as much as a mailman?

I think we're pretty far away from that. The government only has control over Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement. Not many physicians have decided to refuse to see those patients and decline payment.

The median primary care physician compensation is $250k a year. More productive ones make twice that or more. Specialist make considerably more. Good luck finding another profession in demand and as common as a physician that make what they do.

 

[Steelr4evr]

It's all about state control. It is imploding on it's own. Free the markets up over state lines will be a good start when we turn back away from a terrible forced idea.

 

[21STEELERS21]

I wouldn't call single payer healthcare actually liberal when every developed country has it but us.

Our problems aren't that special, a lot of countries have similar problems. When one of these
countries has a solution that works, I don't call them liberal or conservative, I call them smart.

The world is changing rapidly, old solutions don't work, either adapt/change or perish.

 

[hamster]

I think we're pretty far away from that. The government only has control over Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement. Not many physicians have decided to refuse to see those patients and decline payment. .

You are wrong about that. My sister is a pcp in a town of about 30k, and is the only physician taking new medicaid patients. The bureaucratic payout system , and it's limited reimbursements, are not worth it for many.

 

[Steeltime]

The world is changing rapidly, old solutions don't work, either adapt/change or perish.

So Medicare - enacted in 1968 - is the "new" approach you are talking about?

Medicare is bankrupt. Here are the facts for Medicare.

The system pays so little for medical services - something like $15 for a visit - that doctors refuse Medicare patients. Pretty soon, almost no practitioner accepts Medicare patients.

A doctor will then apply for an exemption, because he or she is the only doctor willing to take Medicare patients. The exemption allows the doctor to charge an appropriate rate for medical care, such as $150 for a visit.

I know this happens for a fact because my brother's medical clinic - he is a part owner - has a doctor who did exactly this.

The end result of government-run health care?

Fewer doctors provide the service, patients have much longer waits for medical care due to the lack of doctors willing to take patients at the ridiculous government rates, the patients have to travel farther to get the medical care, and the government winds up paying basically what a private medical insurer would for the same care due to the "exemption" approach.

In short, the worst of all worlds - the rationing and shortage that government control always results in, plus the added benefit of extra costs!!

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Yeah, but so long as the misery is spread evenly then it is fair. That is the way these nut jobs rate health care. Socialized medicine is starting to buckle where It's the law.

Insurance companies are now starting to grow business in countries with socialized medicine. They are selling individual policies to people who want to pay for quality. This is because many of these countries are embracing capitalism more and people have money.


Socialism is a failed experiment.

 

[Steelr4evr]

....and that is why we must fight it tooth&nail.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

You're both being fascists,

 

[Troglodyte]

You are wrong about that. My sister is a pcp in a town of about 30k, and is the only physician taking new medicaid patients. The bureaucratic payout system , and it's limited reimbursements, are not worth it for many.

I'm not wrong, a town of 30k likely has about 5 pcps that are not part of a not for profit health system so it's not a good example.