Was 11.5 ROLB Sacks Bad?

[21STEELERS21]

They did it as a group, Moats 4, Harrison 5.5 and Jones 2, but that is a fairly productive year for ROLB.
Porter never had that many in a year as a Steeler and Harrison only exceeded that total once.

 

[slashsteel]

oh we are piecing sacks together now

hmmmmmm

They had what one sack when it mattered most?

so no not good enough

 

[Litos]

the number as a total is good. The problem is that no one is consistent enough bringing pressure except for Harrison, who came out of retirement and might be going back after the ravens fiasco

 

[Skott]

Justin Houston had 22 sacks this year.... By himself! So 11.5 combined sucks and another reason we need to draft the best OLB available in the draft

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Problem is that the Steelers brought in an old guy off his couch and he was better than their first round pick.


If Jarvis had 5.5 and Harrison 2, then it would be a good point. But the problem is Harrison was the only consistently effective pass rusher and he's too old to count on for next year.

 

[Coryea]

They did it as a group, Moats 4, Harrison 5.5 and Jones 2, but that is a fairly productive year for ROLB.
Porter never had that many in a year as a Steeler and Harrison only exceeded that total once.

teams throw the ball alot more now than they did when Porter played and even when Harrison played, so sack totals should be higher.

 

[insaniti]

teams throw the ball alot more now than they did when Porter played and even when Harrison played, so sack totals should be higher.

they also throw lots of quick passes against us, so unless we are getting INSTANT pressure, the sack numbers are not going to go up.

 

[Coryea]

they also throw lots of quick passes against us, so unless we are getting INSTANT pressure, the sack numbers are not going to go up.

yeah, that's our 10 yard cushion formation.

Can anyone here honeslty say they felt like any of our LB's had a chance to beat their man one on one consistantly? I know I never felt that way, at least with Porter, Harrison, and woodley pre 2011 your felt pretty good that if they were in a battle they had a good chance to at least pressure the qb.

 

[21STEELERS21]

The emphasis on passing also requires linebackers to be in coverage more and the limits on DB contact mean receivers
can get open easier so there is less time for a sack.

The sack difference in the Baltimore game had a lot to do with the difference in the QB's. When anyone gets near Flacco, he dumps the ball.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

yeah, that's our 10 yard cushion formation.

Can anyone here honeslty say they felt like any of our LB's had a chance to beat their man one on one consistantly? I know I never felt that way, at least with Porter, Harrison, and woodley pre 2011 your felt pretty good that if they were in a battle they had a good chance to at least pressure the qb.

This is why I feel DB is more important to us then LB. I don't care who you are give a 10-15 yard cushion and no LB is gonna sack the QB. We have young LB's let's get them some help in the back end so we don't have to play 10-15 yards off and give them a chance to rush the passer. I am not saying Jones is good or is our answer there but right now with no coverage up tight we aren't gonna find out.

 

[Coryea]

if you give a 10 yard cushion, it wont matter what CB you have too, if the qb just stands up and throws it, we can't go wrong with getting help at either position.

 

[21STEELERS21]

I think our sack problem is coverage as well. QB's are getting the ball out quick because someone is open early, for the most part they are
not throwing the ball downfield. Gay and McCain are solid #3 and #4 CB's. We are missing a #1 and #2.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

if you give a 10 yard cushion, it wont matter what CB you have too, if the qb just stands up and throws it, we can't go wrong with getting help at either position.

Seahawks use those same cushions. Its cover 3. In cover 3, the CB is not even supposed to cover those short quick throws to the wr. The CB is responsible for a deep third of the field so he has to play back.


Having said that, the CB is supposed to come up quickly to make that tackle, or a play on the ball if he can get there quick enough. But that is risky. If its a double move and the wr gets by, or a different wr runs into that deep third, then it's a big play.


The difference with Richard Sherman is that he has a good pass rush and great safeties helping him. The pass rush means the ball has to come out quickly, and if he guesses wrong, his safety will save him. This allows Sherman to play much more aggressively than steeler CBs can or should.


Steelers CBs have to play softer. Without a pass rush to force quick throws, or good safety play which can help them if the wr gets past them, steeler CBs have to play soft and try to make a quick tackle on short throws.

 

[obxsteeler]

There were 9 OLB's with 10 sacks last season. None were rookies and none were drafted before or after Jones the year before. Worild's 7.5 were something like 12/13th.

 

[stuntmanmike]

Sacks shamaks... If you don't get consistant pressure on the qb moving him out of his comfort zone you down really have a pass rush I.e We don't have a pass rush. And that's a problem moving ahead cause there is know one on the horizon that will provide that.

 

[POP]

Combining sacks from all players playing ROLB is absurd. Bottom line, we used a mid first round pick on a guy who isn't producing. Two yeas in, Jones is showing nothing. He can't bull rush - he's too small and weak - and he can't beat anyone with speed - he's too slow. And I'm not crazy about Shazier at this point either. Meanwhile, Balt. took CJ Mosely 2 picks after Shazier and all that ILB did was make 133 tackles with two picks and a forced fumble and 3 sacks. Once again, the Steelers tried to be too cute with the draft while the Ravens just took the sure things. I believe their philosophy is superior to our arrogant clods making "surprise" draft picks. I am so sick of their "cute" picks. One other thing: OSU has a history of super freak athletes who fail as NFL players. But our guys don't realize that.

 

[Coryea]

I'll admit, I don't watch every seattle game, but the few I have seen, Sherman seems to be up in the wr's face quite a bit.

How many sacks as a team did we have in 2001
with Scott, Washington, Alexander, Flowers in our secondary, I wouldn't say any of them are good, but we had good pass rushers.
with a good pass rush you don't have to give a cushion as a cb, the qb has to hold the ball a little longer to wait and see if the wr gets by your corner, and your pass rush has time to get there. with the 10 yard cushion, the best pass rusher is useless when the qb throws a quick pass.

 

[F83]

I think had Jones not got hurt he would of had 5 or 6, bringing Deebo back was a great visual aid for him on how next year how to rush, develop a few different pass rush moves, try a bullrush, swim, get lower vs the T.

Had Lebeau used Worlids the same way as he did after Woodley went on IR, I can see Worlids would of had 9-11.
Moats did well for his role, and if Tuitt replaced Cam T earlier add 3.

Actual
Moats 4, Harrison 5.5 and Jones 2 Worlids 7.5 Timmons 2 = 15
should have been Worlids 9 Jones 5 Moats 3 Timmons 3 Shazier 2 = 22

slightly better but as we know what troy @ Lebeau future the FO can start planning whether to promote Butler to DC and Peezy to LB Coach, he with a full summer can turn Jones into a game changer.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

I think had Jones not got hurt he would of had 5 or 6, bringing Deebo back was a great visual aid for him on how next year how to rush, develop a few different pass rush moves, try a bullrush, swim, get lower vs the T.


the FO can start planning whether to promote Butler to DC and Peezy to LB Coach, he with a full summer can turn Jones into a game changer.

No full summer ,, no mentoring, no examples,,, NOTHING will make J.Jones any better without his commitment to the weight room. Same with Shazier imo.

 

[SteelerFan448]

The total sack amount from the ROLB position is solid. The problem is you need a player or two at the position to produce and not your 36-year old (or whatever) veteran who you signed out of retirement to be your best pass rusher. Besides the stats, the OLBs could not generate any pressure. Terrible QBs pick us apart because they have a clean pocket to throw from and that is because of a lack of pressure.

 

[steelerscotty]

Problem is that the Steelers brought in an old guy off his couch and he was better than their first round pick. If Jarvis had 5.5 and Harrison 2, then it would be a good point. But the problem is Harrison was the only consistently effective pass rusher and he's too old to count on for next year.

While im not convinced JJ is the answer, comparing their sack totals is misleading. Jones had 2 sacks but was injured in the third game. 2 sacks every 3 games would = 10 sacks. Next year will tell for JJ. If hes healthy and doesnt produce it makes him a bust, if he's injured again he is injury prone. Jones must produce next year.

 

[F83]

its time peezy gets these 2 young pups into beast mode steeler LB shape, they eithier accept the challange or watch in the case of Shazier Spence/williams take plenty of his reps, and jones, Deebo/Moats @ rookie

 

[Drink IRON City]

To the original poster, when you have to combine the total of THREE players, to get that number, then yes it is bad. I know JJ watt is exceptional, but he is only one guy. Houston, is only ONE guy. Are either of these two equal to double of three??? Evidently so. Why cant we get a guy who is only half as good, 11 sack total?



Salute the nation

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

I'll admit, I don't watch every seattle game, but the few I have seen, Sherman seems to be up in the wr's face quite a bit.

How many sacks as a team did we have in 2001
with Scott, Washington, Alexander, Flowers in our secondary, I wouldn't say any of them are good, but we had good pass rushers.
with a good pass rush you don't have to give a cushion as a cb, the qb has to hold the ball a little longer to wait and see if the wr gets by your corner, and your pass rush has time to get there. with the 10 yard cushion, the best pass rusher is useless when the qb throws a quick pass.

Coryea, I agree but but the same could be said with the other option and that's not give a 10-15 yards cushion. Why are we giving a 10-15 yard cushion anyway.....cause we don't have the guys that can cover and we don't have the safety help. The reason I am saying fix the back end is we already invested in some young talent at LB and have not done much of anything to improve the back end. What we have done (sign Allen and Mitchell) don't seem to be the answer. I just think we get some better talent back there either free agency or draft but we need to make this a high priority and then give the young guys we have drafted another year or two to see if this has helped them. I am not against improving the LB position with a mid range free agent or a mid round pick but I think it is time to address the CB position as our biggest need and maybe the rest will fall back into place.

 

[slashsteel]

Coryea, I agree but but the same could be said with the other option and that's not give a 10-15 yards cushion. Why are we giving a 10-15 yard cushion anyway.....cause we don't have the guys that can cover and we don't have the safety help. The reason I am saying fix the back end is we already invested in some young talent at LB and have not done much of anything to improve the back end. What we have done (sign Allen and Mitchell) don't seem to be the answer. I just think we get some better talent back there either free agency or draft but we need to make this a high priority and then give the young guys we have drafted another year or two to see if this has helped them. I am not against improving the LB position with a mid range free agent or a mid round pick but I think it is time to address the CB position as our biggest need and maybe the rest will fall back into place.

thing is we can not say hey we will go corner in 1 or hey we will draft a LBer mid range. As if a better value OLBer is there over a corner you have to go that route.......

If you have a player high first (unless they have obvious red flags) and they slide to the Steelers you have to go that player. Unless it is a QB or C or ILBer....

But if a OT is the clear value then you upgrade that area of the roster.............. WR etc.....


you use free agency to bring in one above average CB and one above average OLBer

you do not bring in the worst rated player available and think you can make do

as it isn't like the Steelers can put a lot of stock thinking a drafted OLBer and CB will magically fix.

As with the Steelers lately they have drafted poor at OLBer and corner just seems like a extremely hard position to eval... so you free agent a solid choice, and in the process if you decided to draft one on top of it....... you aren't mandating one has to be drafted early......

and as far as cap.its the same ol same ol


you cut / extend to free up needed room

again this is the year they need to target TWO proven track record free agents at the two positions I mentioned

if not?

you can bet unless the Steelers get draft lucky, the season will end no better than last. If that.......