White Light, Black rain.

[Coach]

White Light, Black rain.

I have been on an HBO Documentary kick lately.

If you have a strong stomach to witness the macabre and want see photos, video, and personal stories of the survivors of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuclear attacks
Watch this documentary, but keep children away. The footage and testimonials exceeds any horror movie you’ve ever seen.

Much to my surprise the Japanese people were angry with their own government for starting the war, and failing to help their citizens after the attack. The USA offered all kinds of aid at home and abroad. Japan didn't think logically, but I for one still wonder if a 2nd bomb was necessary.

At the conclusion I thought to myself every leader of nations with nuclear weapons should be required to watch this with the other leaders at least once

 

[Ron Burgundy]

A second bomb was necessary because they didn't surrender after the first one.

 

[DBS1970]

The Jap government was training women and children to use IEDs and ceramic grenades as well as sharpened bamboo pikes to attack our troops. They wanted to go down in a blaze of glory. As Burgundy said they didn't surrender after the first bomb, if we had been forced to invade the cost in lives would have been staggering and the Japanese nation and culture would probably have ceased to exist.

 

[Coach]

A second bomb was necessary because they didn't surrender after the first one.

Perhaps. But with the passage of time the mere threat of another one could have done the job with negations. The damage at Hiroshima was an unearthly thought at the times. And the aftermath, beyond belief. If the USA said Toyko is next, I think that would have lead to the unconditional surrender. We'll never know. Japan did have a window of time to surrender.

In the documentary, the Ambassador of the USA for Japan who lived among them for many years spoke and called them 2,000 years behind in terms of logical thinking.

Japan was very brutal toward other Asian nations, killing over 6 million Chinese and 2 million Koreans. For sport the Japanese would behead the people form the Philippines. There was an Asian Holocaust if you will and its not a large topic in Western History books.

 

[Rod Farva]

In the documentary, the Ambassador of the USA for Japan who lived among them for many years spoke and called them 2,000 years behind in terms of logical thinking.

.

I think you may have just addressed your own concern. The Japanese were the definition of fanatical belief.

 

[wig]

This is a tough topic. The U.S. is the only country who's ever had the balls (or the gall) to actually drop a nuke on another country. Not only did we do it, we did it twice. AND we did it on civilian targets. Arguments can be made to justify the decision but ultimately, our military is the one who chose to execute the drop. The choice was made because there was a well-founded belief that there was no better way to achieve quick and decisive victory.

Now... Just for the sake of fun and logical debate... Let's say you are the despot of a small country without the huge military resources of another huge and well-supplied country. However you DO have access to some nuclear weapon technology. Let's say further that the ONLY way you can see a clear and decisive way to forward your cause in the war or end it outright is to get a nuke into one or more large civilian city(ies) of your enemy. It's already been demonstrated that this is an effective way to quickly force the enemy to capitulate.

What do we say now? Is that still a reasonable way to end an impasse in a long, drawn out war?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

It's about winning, not being nice to your enemy. Kill as many of them as needed to achieve victory while minimizing your own losses. I'm good with it. When do we nuke Mecca?

 

[Coach]

This is a tough topic. The U.S. is the only country who's ever had the balls (or the gall) to actually drop a nuke on another country. Not only did we do it, we did it twice. AND we did it on civilian targets. Arguments can be made to justify the decision but ultimately, our military is the one who chose to execute the drop. The choice was made because there was a well-founded belief that there was no better way to achieve quick and decisive victory.

Now... Just for the sake of fun and logical debate... Let's say you are the despot of a small country without the huge military resources of another huge and well-supplied country. However you DO have access to some nuclear weapon technology. Let's say further that the ONLY way you can see a clear and decisive way to forward your cause in the war or end it outright is to get a nuke into one or more large civilian city(ies) of your enemy. It's already been demonstrated that this is an effective way to quickly force the enemy to capitulate.

What do we say now? Is that still a reasonable way to end an impasse in a long, drawn out war?

The nuclear attacks killed 200,000 + or - 50,000 civilians. To invade Japan would cost how many casualties on both sides? I suppose that is a way to rationalize it.

The survivor accounts, video and photos of the bombing are horror.

High winds and heat knocked out arms, legs, heads, and eyeballs of many. Those near the blast were vaporized instantly. They were the lucky ones. Miles beyond others were burnt’ like a fish left on a grill too long. There were testimonials from survivors of people badly burned but still alive that suddenly turning to ashes while saying good-bye to loves ones. Those even further away were burned badly enough to have no clothes left on and lumps of flesh hanging off their bodies.

The river was full of people trying to cool their burns, many of which were dying or dead. Apparently the heat wave of a nuclear blast can quickly dehydrate people. Small children cried out for water only to drop dead minutes later. Many of those who survived suffered the initial blast suffered a horrible death, and those who lived were in pain for months at a hospital, and in most cases wanted to die as maggots ate away at their burned flesh. Typing this is one thing, watching it another. There are pictures, videos and photo's of the above.

The bombs dropped on Japan were 18-20 kiloton’s. The largest ever tested by the USA was 48,200 kilotons. Nuclear war isn't really war. It's annihilation.

The documentary starts with a quote from Albert Einstein who's theories work as as scientists made the weapon possible

“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” ― Albert Einstein

 

[Steeltime]

The nuclear attacks killed 200,000 + or - 50,000 civilians. To invade Japan would cost how many casualties on both sides? I suppose that is a way to rationalize it.

Dropping the atomic bomb on Japan does not need to be "rationalized,"

First, you made passing reference to the way Japanese soldiers treated the Chinese and Koreans. The fact is that the Japanese viewed every other population as inferior to them. On an island called Chichi Jima, the Japanese officers literally ate American POW's. Yes, they viewed American POW's as lower than dogs.

Second, the simple fact of the matter is that Japan was not France. When the allies landed on Normandy, they landed on allied soil, with the population fervently supporting the troops. A landing in Japan would have been 100% different, and would have involved endless suicide attacks on our troops.

Third, the Japanese did not surrender after we napalmed Tokyo; they did not surrender after we re-took the Philippines and took Iwo Jima; they did not surrender after we dropped the first atomic bomb, and demanded surrender.

Fourth, I certainly understand the moral imperative and self-analysis, but let me ask this ... if the Japanese had an atomic bomb, would they have hesitated one millisecond in using it on America? You cannot win a war playing by a set of rules the other side does not @#$%ing care about.

Fifth, and finally, the degree to which the Japanese were willing to go is evident in the simple fact that during the last 12 months of conflict in the Pacific, their primary weapon was suicide bombers, i.e., kamikazes. Do you believe that the Japanese would suddenly be less homicidal and suicidal with American troops landing on their shores??

Finally, how many American lives would you be willing to sacrifice to avoid using the second atomic bomb? The answer for me is zero. Japan started the ******* fight - we finished it.

 

[coupon]

Dropping the atomic bomb on Japan does not need to be "rationalized,"

First, you made passing reference to the way Japanese soldiers treated the Chinese and Koreans. The fact is that the Japanese viewed every other population as inferior to them. On an island called Chichi Jima, the Japanese officers literally ate American POW's. Yes, they viewed American POW's as lower than dogs.

Second, the simple fact of the matter is that Japan was not France. When the allies landed on Normandy, they landed on allied soil, with the population fervently supporting the troops. A landing in Japan would have been 100% different, and would have involved endless suicide attacks on our troops.

Third, the Japanese did not surrender after we napalmed Tokyo; they did not surrender after we re-took the Philippines and took Iwo Jima; they did not surrender after we dropped the first atomic bomb, and demanded surrender.

Fourth, I certainly understand the moral imperative and self-analysis, but let me ask this ... if the Japanese had an atomic bomb, would they have hesitated one millisecond in using it on America? You cannot win a war playing by a set of rules the other side does not @#$%ing care about.

Fifth, and finally, the degree to which the Japanese were willing to go is evident in the simple fact that during the last 12 months of conflict in the Pacific, their primary weapon was suicide bombers, i.e., kamikazes. Do you believe that the Japanese would suddenly be less homicidal and suicidal with American troops landing on their shores??

Finally, how many American lives would you be willing to sacrifice to avoid using the second atomic bomb? The answer for me is zero. Japan started the ******* fight - we finished it.

Finally, finally.

 

[MT~Forged]

Now substitute the word Japanese with Muslim. The Muslim are no different than the Japanese were at that time, some good some bad, with those in power looking to spread their brand of evil. We are at the same crossroads today, EXCEPT, we will NEVER do what it takes to end the threat. Those morons that represent this country do not have the backbone, nor will to do what is needed. The American people's lives in their opinion are worth so much less than our enemies. It is past time that these elected officials are held accountable for their treasonous actions.

I have said it before, we have wasted trillions of dollars on nuclear weapons we as a country do not have the willingness to use, and NEVER will.

 

[jitter77]

Now substitute the word Japanese with Muslim. The Muslim are no different than the Japanese were at that time, some good some bad, with those in power looking to spread their brand of evil. We are at the same crossroads today, EXCEPT, we will NEVER do what it takes to end the threat. Those morons that represent this country do not have the backbone, nor will to do what is needed. The American people's lives in their opinion are worth so much less than our enemies. It is past time that these elected officials are held accountable for their treasonous actions.

I have said it before, we have wasted trillions of dollars on nuclear weapons we as a country do not have the willingness to use, and NEVER will.

ISIS / Terrorists in general are spread out. You would have to destroy many countries to even make a dent. Even if that is acceptable you are looking at irreversible damage to the planet. You would be looking at killing millions of people / animals just to attempt to eliminate a few terrorists. ISIS and the likes can not be reasoned with and we should stop trying. Most other countries do basically nothing to help us / remove them so I say its time to pull out and let the other countries fend for themselves. We give iraqis weapons who surrender and guess who takes their weapons ISIS....So we are indirectly supplying them our weapons. I think the whole thing is ridiculous......

 

[Vader]

People think that the A-bomb is some mystical weapon. The fact is that more people were killed in the night bombing of Dresden than in Nagasaki. And almost as many as in Hiroshima. So what difference does it make if people die because of conventional incendiary carpet bombing or dropping the A-bomb? It doesn't.

Second, Japan killed millions of Chinese... They estimate 6 million but the truth is that it is probably much more than that. There is no way to really know. There were no concentration camps where records were held. They killed everybody and many of those that were killed were famers and nobody knew they existed anyway.

Bombing Japan was absolutely the right thing to do. It saved millions of American lives and probably million of Japanese lives.

 

[Bill s55]

I'm sure HBO wanted you to forget about that place called Pearl Harbor.

 

[Omar10213245]

This is a tough topic. The U.S. is the only country who's ever had the balls (or the gall) to actually drop a nuke on another country. Not only did we do it, we did it twice. AND we did it on civilian targets. Arguments can be made to justify the decision but ultimately, our military is the one who chose to execute the drop. The choice was made because there was a well-founded belief that there was no better way to achieve quick and decisive victory.

Now... Just for the sake of fun and logical debate... Let's say you are the despot of a small country without the huge military resources of another huge and well-supplied country. However you DO have access to some nuclear weapon technology. Let's say further that the ONLY way you can see a clear and decisive way to forward your cause in the war or end it outright is to get a nuke into one or more large civilian city(ies) of your enemy. It's already been demonstrated that this is an effective way to quickly force the enemy to capitulate.

What do we say now? Is that still a reasonable way to end an impasse in a long, drawn out war?

What may have worked in 1945 might noy work so well today. What works today might not have worked so well in 1945. Context is so very important

 

[Rod Farva]

ISIS / Terrorists in general are spread out. You would have to destroy many countries to even make a dent. Even if that is acceptable you are looking at irreversible damage to the planet. You would be looking at killing millions of people / animals just to attempt to eliminate a few terrorists. ISIS and the likes can not be reasoned with and we should stop trying. Most other countries do basically nothing to help us / remove them so I say its time to pull out and let the other countries fend for themselves. We give iraqis weapons who surrender and guess who takes their weapons ISIS....So we are indirectly supplying them our weapons. I think the whole thing is ridiculous......

We have tactical nukes......it's not an all or nothing game anymore.

 

[Coach]

I'm sure HBO wanted you to forget about that place called Pearl Harbor.

It was mentioned early with footage.

 

[Shane Falco]

Sometimes, you just need a finishing move. Then give the old Nature Boy WOOOOOOO!

 

[hamster]

The Japanese had a fanatical belief that their Emperor was divine, and could never do wrong. They were willing to fight to the death in support of him. This fanatical devotion was evidenced on the battlefield countless times. The alternative to the atomic bomb was a ground invasion of Japan. The cost would be too great in the loss of human life, The bomb prevented that. And yes, it took two to get the Emperor to address his people, and surrender.

 

[Vader]

The Japanese had a fanatical belief that their Emperor was divine, and could never do wrong. They were willing to fight to the death in support of him. This fanatical devotion was evidenced on the battlefield countless times. The alternative to the atomic bomb was a ground invasion of Japan. The cost would be too great in the loss of human life, The bomb prevented that. And yes, it took two to get the Emperor to address his people, and surrender.

The strange thing is that they allowed him to live. Hitler would have been executed along with his top guys.... which did happen to many of them at Nuremburg. The Emperor should have been right along with them.

 

[hamster]

The strange thing is that they allowed him to live. Hitler would have been executed along with his top guys.... which did happen to many of them at Nuremburg. The Emperor should have been right along with them.

Good point. Allied officials felt that the Emperor could be a useful, unifying voice during the post war reconstruction. His political powers, however, were stripped.

 

[jitter77]

We have tactical nukes......it's not an all or nothing game anymore.

We also have drones and much improved surveillance now. I dont see what a tactical nuke would accomplish that we cant do with other smart bombs. However my main point is that the whole thing is a waste of time, money, and lives. These people have been fighting since their existence and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. We can kill one guy and there are 100 others waiting to get in line. It is just a never ending cycle of hate and ignorance. I do not think it will ever end no matter what we do.

 

[Vader]

Good point. Allied officials felt that the Emperor could be a useful, unifying voice during the post war reconstruction. His political powers, however, were stripped.

I'm aware of that. However Hitler wouldn't have been allowed to "unify" anything. The allies should have done the same with the Emperor. Why does he get to commit more war crimes and not even leave his house?

 

[Rod Farva]

We also have drones and much improved surveillance now. I dont see what a tactical nuke would accomplish that we cant do with other smart bombs. However my main point is that the whole thing is a waste of time, money, and lives. These people have been fighting since their existence and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. We can kill one guy and there are 100 others waiting to get in line. It is just a never ending cycle of hate and ignorance. I do not think it will ever end no matter what we do.

I agree mostly....I know they won't stop and also know I don't care. My point was that perhaps a couple of TN's and their horrific aftermath would convince the sand apes that WE are done ******* with them.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

To paraphrase Democrat Sen. Harry Reid, "They didn't win, did they?"