Tariffs

[Troglodyte]

He didn’t “come to his senses”, other countries saw how bad it would be for them in the long run. There is an old adage that says “its better to get some of of all, then to get all of none”. The list of countries that understand this are looking to reduce barriers to trade to save their countries economies. More will come around every day.

No. Trump postponed the tariffs 90 days. Other countries didn’t do anything.

 

[Superman]

No. Trump postponed the tariffs 90 days. Other countries didn’t do anything.

oh. ok. they just did nothing. gotcha.

i'd post links, but ... link tariff and all...

 

[Steeltime]

Trump is using the threat of tariffs to improve the United States ability to compete in manufacturing and raw material processing jobs, most notably production of raw materials such as steel, aluminum, oil, and natural gas, and products such as semiconductors, cars, major appliances, lumber, and medicines.

Why? Because he realizes that these raw materials are under our feet and their production lowers costs for Americans while generating very high-paying jobs. Working in oil fields is not easy but those jobs pay $50/hour. The manufacturing jobs are necessary for a nation to survive. Globalists believe that interdependence reduces the desire and profit for war but they have been proven wrong time after time. Also, China has no desire to be a member of the globalist community - their very long-term plan is to subjugate Western nations.

Trump is using the threat of tariffs to improve our status. He did the same thing his first term. The mere threat has caused a massive response and highlighted what is happening with China, Vietnam, etc. abusing the tariff game to benefit themselves at the cost of the United States and her citizens.

Finally, anybody screeching and moaning about Trump's tariff approach is to be completely ignored unless the same individuals voiced their concerns about the loss of millions of jobs in the manufacturing heart of America in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, and North Carolina. Why do we think Fentanyl deaths are happening so frequently in a lot of those areas? Because of the booming economies and optimism?

 

[Steeltime]

Went over this thread and let me guess - Floggy is mocking Trump for sO maNy BaNKrUpCeEs!

Meanwhile, he thinks Barry Drone King is a genius for ... getting paid a ****-ton of money for teaching at Harvard? Huh? Dude could not make a living as a lawyer but he's a genius.

Okaaaaaaay ... I guess that means I am a genuis x 1000.

 

[Confluence]

He didn’t “come to his senses”, other countries saw how bad it would be for them in the long run. There is an old adage that says “its better to get some of of all, then to get all of none”. The list of countries that understand this are looking to reduce barriers to trade to save their countries economies. More will come around every day.

Do you mean like how Putin has come around since Trump promised to end the Ukraine war in his first week, or how Hamas has freed all the hostages because Trump was going to level the rest of Gaza a couple months ago?

He gets loud, he threatens, he backs off. In this week's version, the US got a good result on the first of several really big bond auctions to refinance debt -- mostly hidden in the middle of histrionics. That was important; several more to come. Japan was made happy just in time.

The good news is that 10% tariffs won't be noticed by most consumers and China has needed a stern hand for years.

Watch the automatmaker complaints start to get louder and louder as the tariff talks morph into resource accessibility, and supply fears over medications become more real.

 

[oneforthebus]

He didn’t “come to his senses”, other countries saw how bad it would be for them in the long run. There is an old adage that says “its better to get some of of all, then to get all of none”. The list of countries that understand this are looking to reduce barriers to trade to save their countries economies. More will come around every day.

Uh huh. That's why he paused the tariffs before signing a single new trade deal.

But yeah, it was just his brilliant strategy. Not the fact that the market was crashing and US bonds were being dumped all over the world. Keep telling yourself that.

 

[oneforthebus]

More anti-Trumpers who disagree, big shock there.

They also only want to talk about one aspect IN A VACUUM. They can’t talk snout the whole picture because their Bullshyte falls apart every time.

Ok, first you mock me for having an opinion without having attended Penn Business School, then you claim Penn Business School is just a bunch of anti-Trumpers who are full of bullshit.

Which is it? And where is your economic policy education from btw?

 

[oneforthebus]

You are an anti-Trumper, no matter how hard you try to explain yourself.

Every thing you want to see done, he tried the first time and Anti-Trumpers like you fought him every step of the way.

Now your group can sit down and shut up because he DGAF what you think this time.

1st term he tried the carrot, this time he is using the stick. It’s a really phuqn big stick too.

I'm pro what he's doing on the borders, pro what DOGE is doing, pro what he's done with the trans madness...I'm not an anti-Trumper, I'm anti-stupidity. Sorry I'm not a cult follower who believes he's the Messiah who can do no wrong.

I'm not part of any "group", I just have critical thinking skills. I know that drives some of you insane.

 

[Superman]

Trump is using the threat of tariffs to improve the United States ability to compete in manufacturing and raw material processing jobs, most notably production of raw materials such as steel, aluminum, oil, and natural gas, and products such as semiconductors, cars, major appliances, lumber, and medicines.

Why? Because he realizes that these raw materials are under our feet and their production lowers costs for Americans while generating very high-paying jobs. Working in oil fields is not easy but those jobs pay $50/hour. The manufacturing jobs are necessary for a nation to survive. Globalists believe that interdependence reduces the desire and profit for war but they have been proven wrong time after time. Also, China has no desire to be a member of the globalist community - their very long-term plan is to subjugate Western nations.

Trump is using the threat of tariffs to improve our status. He did the same thing his first term. The mere threat has caused a massive response and highlighted what is happening with China, Vietnam, etc. abusing the tariff game to benefit themselves at the cost of the United States and her citizens.

Finally, anybody screeching and moaning about Trump's tariff approach is to be completely ignored unless the same individuals voiced their concerns about the loss of millions of jobs in the manufacturing heart of America in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, and North Carolina. Why do we think Fentanyl deaths are happening so frequently in a lot of those areas? Because of the booming economies and optimism?

wasn't there a politician at some point who said something along the lines of "speak softly when you wield a big dick"? or was it "speak softly and carry a big stick"?

 

[oneforthebus]

Trump is using the threat of tariffs to improve the United States ability to compete in manufacturing and raw material processing jobs, most notably production of raw materials such as steel, aluminum, oil, and natural gas, and products such as semiconductors, cars, major appliances, lumber, and medicines.

Why? Because he realizes that these raw materials are under our feet and their production lowers costs for Americans while generating very high-paying jobs. Working in oil fields is not easy but those jobs pay $50/hour. The manufacturing jobs are necessary for a nation to survive. Globalists believe that interdependence reduces the desire and profit for war but they have been proven wrong time after time. Also, China has no desire to be a member of the globalist community - their very long-term plan is to subjugate Western nations.

Trump is using the threat of tariffs to improve our status. He did the same thing his first term. The mere threat has caused a massive response and highlighted what is happening with China, Vietnam, etc. abusing the tariff game to benefit themselves at the cost of the United States and her citizens.

Finally, anybody screeching and moaning about Trump's tariff approach is to be completely ignored unless the same individuals voiced their concerns about the loss of millions of jobs in the manufacturing heart of America in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, and North Carolina. Why do we think Fentanyl deaths are happening so frequently in a lot of those areas? Because of the booming economies and optimism?

It's a problem that needs to be solved but there's a more sensible, surgical way to do it. Lumping steel, oil, and gas in with coffee and avocados doesn't make sense. The US is not capable of producing every product in the world as efficiently or in the same quantities (or at all) as some other countries. Nor does lumping our allies and countries with which we have previously negotiated trade agreements (one of which negotiated by Trump's previous administration itself) with bad actors. Fix the problems but do it intelligently and without instantly driving up costs on everything and tanking the economy, is that too much to ask?

Again, glad he finally listened to someone and came to his senses.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

While I will admit to not being an economist, I do believe that my opinion is as relevant as almost any other person here.

Politicians make all kinds of promises in order to be elected, (their major objective) and then proceed to do nothing about it once elected.
Trump is following through on his promises and those that didn't vote for him and even those that did while holding their nose are now screaming because he is following through.

Nothing changes instantaneously and yet his distractors have criticized his every action since day one and its only intensified now on day 81 of his term.

If only half of his efforts see fruition, he will have accomplished more than any other President in decades. Whether its weeding fraud and waste being spent by the US Treasury,
a fair-trade agreement with the rest of the world, better paying jobs and increased employment, secure borders, deportations for those that deserve it, repealing taxes on tips, overtime and Social Security, the list goes on and would secure his legacy as a great President, while realizing that the left would never acknowledge that and will continue to demean him.

I for one will give him more than 81 days to get it done. At the end of his term if the country in shambles, (it won't be), I will admit to being wrong.
If things improve dramatically will the left do the same?

 

[Steelersreign]

It's a problem that needs to be solved but there's a more sensible, surgical way to do it. Lumping steel, oil, and gas in with coffee and avocados doesn't make sense. The US is not capable of producing every product in the world as efficiently or in the same quantities (or at all) as some other countries. Nor does lumping our allies and countries with which we have previously negotiated trade agreements (one of which negotiated by Trump's previous administration itself) with bad actors. Fix the problems but do it intelligently and without instantly driving up costs on everything and tanking the economy, is that too much to ask?

Again, glad he finally listened to someone and came to his senses.

He is listening to everything. This is a negotiation.

 

[Steeltime]

It's a problem that needs to be solved but there's a more sensible, surgical way to do it.

Sure. But the surgical method takes a looooong time and unfortunately, the nattering nobodies in the Tesla-burning crowd are not patient. Also, the media will scream and cry and shriek and we will be warned - ORDERED! - to admit these terrible policies are killing babies!! Not the abortion kind, the other kind.

He doesn't have time for that. He is using massive brush strokes because the problem is that big and has been ignored for 35 years. No time for patience.

Lumping steel, oil, and gas in with coffee and avocados doesn't make sense.

See above. You want the delicate handling of a crystal engraver to treat a lumbering, dying moose. That choice is probably better for several issues but just not possible given this nation's current status.

And just keep in mind - the same people whining about the tariffs are burning Teslas and screeching about cutting funding for lesbian Sesame Street in Uzbekistan.

The US is not capable of producing every product in the world as efficiently or in the same quantities (or at all) as some other countries.

See above.

Nor does lumping our allies and countries with which we have previously negotiated trade agreements (one of which negotiated by Trump's previous administration itself) with bad actors. Fix the problems but do it intelligently and without instantly driving up costs on everything and tanking the economy, is that too much to ask?

First, the claim that tariffs will "increase costs" is conflating a small price increase in some but not even remotely all products with inflation, which is a price increase for ALL products caused by profligate spending and printing of money. Tariffs don't cause inflation. Only government causes inflation.

The price increases are not going to be that much and not on many products. Believe it or not, a lot of what we buy is not subject to the tariffs or will have only a very small tariff imposed.

Again, glad he finally listened to someone and came to his senses.

Again, you presume that the threat of tariffs was never meant as a method to get attention on the subject and to get trading partners to negotiate a more reasoned deal instead of ripping off American consumers. It was and it is.

China is a different case entirely. Their astonishing theft of intellectual property, patents, etc., cheap labor, and ridiculous tariff practices deserve an overt campaign against that nation's economy. By the way - we really don't need their cheap, stolen ****. Their economy dies TODAY without hundreds of billions of dollars of American purchases.

 

[Superman]

 

[Superman]

**** these tariffs. this **** is going too far.

 

[MT~Forged]

Uh huh. That's why he paused the tariffs before signing a single new trade deal.

But yeah, it was just his brilliant strategy. Not the fact that the market was crashing and US bonds were being dumped all over the world. Keep telling yourself that.

I didn’t think you could be that dense, but I was wrong. You should just give up because you are approaching Coach level of ridiculousness.
1. He told the world he was going to put America first while he campaigned.
2. He slapped tariffs immediately on Canada and Mexico to get them to start stepping up.
3. As soon as Mexico made a good faith effort and quit running their mouth he paused the tariffs, as a show of good faith.
4. He slapped tariffs on many other countries to get them to come to the table. A good number of countries Claim they are willing to talk, so as a show of good faith he paused their tariffs.

These actions show that he is serious about not continuing the “Take advantage of America” policies of the previous many administrations. All he wants is an equal opportunity for export of American goods, He is being fair with those that seem willing to talk. I’m sure there are some that won’t truly want to get onboard and are going to play games. When this happens, I hope Trump slaps even higher tariffs on them and then relegates them to a “now you get to wait a year or two” group. The minute he does that, the others will definitely recognize that is not a good idea.

What YOU and your group want to ignore is that this is not his first term. He learned from his previous mistakes and is doing things differently. Some countries will learn the hard way and others will get a bigger share of the American market.

 

[MT~Forged]

Do you mean like how Putin has come around since Trump promised to end the Ukraine war in his first week, or how Hamas has freed all the hostages because Trump was going to level the rest of Gaza a couple months ago?

He gets loud, he threatens, he backs off. In this week's version, the US got a good result on the first of several really big bond auctions to refinance debt -- mostly hidden in the middle of histrionics. That was important; several more to come. Japan was made happy just in time.

The good news is that 10% tariffs won't be noticed by most consumers and China has needed a stern hand for years.

Watch the automatmaker complaints start to get louder and louder as the tariff talks morph into resource accessibility, and supply fears over medications become more real.

You are right, he does talk a lot of shyte. He also does it very loudly and doesn’t care if he offends. He also does as he says he will, this is extremely difficult for politicians to deal with because they are used to just talking and accomplishing nothing. They are now being forced to actually do something. Some will make choices that won’t really be in their best interests because they want to be seen as resisting. This will blow up in their faces as their countries will suffer and they will be out of a job.

 

[MT~Forged]

Ok, first you mock me for having an opinion without having attended Penn Business School, then you claim Penn Business School is just a bunch of anti-Trumpers who are full of bullshit.

Which is it? And where is your economic policy education I am not mock

Ok, first you mock me for having an opinion without having attended Penn Business School, then you claim Penn Business School is just a bunch of anti-Trumpers who are full of bullshit.

Which is it? And where is your economic policy education from btw?

I am not mocking your opinion because you may or may not have attended any college. I am simply saying that you are FIXATED on a SINGLE aspect of a multi aspect situation and ignoring the rest.

I am not an economist nor an expert on all economic issues, but I did attend the University of California and graduate from Montana State University. I also have decades of real experience in a number of business positions. I will concede that the way they seem to “teach” economics today is vastly different than they did back in the early 80’s. Our education back then was not rooted in “feelings” and furthering an “agenda”.

Yes, the arguments you referenced from PBS was biased and written by Anti-Trumpers who selectively ignored aspects of our situation to further their agenda.

 

[MT~Forged]

I'm pro what he's doing on the borders, pro what DOGE is doing, pro what he's done with the trans madness...I'm not an anti-Trumper, I'm anti-stupidity. Sorry I'm not a cult follower who believes he's the Messiah who can do no wrong.

I'm not part of any "group", I just have critical thinking skills. I know that drives some of you insane.

Fair enough.

You just don’t like how he is approaching the economic problem. You are more inclined to the way things have always been done, even though the never accomplish anything. I happen to like his “shock and awe” attack which other politicians do not know how to handle. This approach results in confusion of your opponent and in that confusion you control the situation while the opponent makes mistakes. Politicians are not experienced in these tactics and whine and cry about everything because of it.

 

[oneforthebus]

I am not mocking your opinion because you may or may not have attended any college. I am simply saying that you are FIXATED on a SINGLE aspect of a multi aspect situation and ignoring the rest.

I am not an economist nor an expert on all economic issues, but I did attend the University of California and graduate from Montana State University. I also have decades of real experience in a number of business positions. I will concede that the way they seem to “teach” economics today is vastly different than they did back in the early 80’s. Our education back then was not rooted in “feelings” and furthering an “agenda”.

Yes, the arguments you referenced from PBS was biased and written by Anti-Trumpers who selectively ignored aspects of our situation to further their agenda.

You asked if I had a Penn business degree and when I said I didn’t you said that is obvious. I then pointed out that Wharton economists agree with me. Now you’re trying to claim your mocking comment was about something entirely different. So you either think having a Penn business degree makes someone more qualified to have an opinion on this or you don’t. The people who have them agree with me. Of course you will say that anyone who disagrees with anything Trump does (like very many highly educated economists do on this issue) is just a Trump hater and biased. Because God forbid anyone contradict your messiah for any reason at all.

 

[oneforthebus]

I didn’t think you could be that dense, but I was wrong. You should just give up because you are approaching Coach level of ridiculousness.
1. He told the world he was going to put America first while he campaigned.
2. He slapped tariffs immediately on Canada and Mexico to get them to start stepping up.
3. As soon as Mexico made a good faith effort and quit running their mouth he paused the tariffs, as a show of good faith.
4. He slapped tariffs on many other countries to get them to come to the table. A good number of countries Claim they are willing to talk, so as a show of good faith he paused their tariffs.

These actions show that he is serious about not continuing the “Take advantage of America” policies of the previous many administrations. All he wants is an equal opportunity for export of American goods, He is being fair with those that seem willing to talk. I’m sure there are some that won’t truly want to get onboard and are going to play games. When this happens, I hope Trump slaps even higher tariffs on them and then relegates them to a “now you get to wait a year or two” group. The minute he does that, the others will definitely recognize that is not a good idea.

What YOU and your group want to ignore is that this is not his first term. He learned from his previous mistakes and is doing things differently. Some countries will learn the hard way and others will get a bigger share of the American market.

You keep saying “my group”, lol. What is my group? A group of people who don’t blindly praise him for every single thing he does? Yeah, I’m in that group. Proudly. Because no one is 100% right about everything, and if you really think he is that flawless you might be in a cult.

 

[Troglodyte]

 

[MT~Forged]

You asked if I had a Penn business degree and when I said I didn’t you said that is obvious.

My point was it was obvious by your reply. Nothing more, nothing less.

I then pointed out that Wharton economists agree with me.

Whom I consider biased Anti-Trumpers because of their own actions. Your agreement with them means you get lumped into that group too.

Now you’re trying to claim your mocking comment was about something entirely different. So you either think having a Penn business degree makes someone more qualified to have an opinion on this or you don’t.

I am not, and I don’t believe that. That is your position, I think there are many with experience from many sources that make the hem more qualified. Academics with zero or minimal practical experience are alway going to be the least qualified.

The people who have them agree with me.

Ok, you agree with them. We have already established your Anti-Trump position on this.

Of course you will say that anyone who disagrees with anything Trump does (like very many highly educated economists do on this issue) is just a Trump hater and biased. Because God forbid anyone contradict your messiah for any reason at all.

No, I am simply saying that this economic mess is a multi aspect situation. You and your group are fixating on one aspect while ignoring actions on the other aspects to further your Anti-Trump position.

I also disagree with him on a number of issues, though more in how far he is going on them. Some I feel he is giving too high of a priority.

 

[MT~Forged]

You keep saying “my group”, lol. What is my group? A group of people who don’t blindly praise him for every single thing he does? Yeah, I’m in that group. Proudly. Because no one is 100% right about everything, and if you really think he is that flawless you might be in a cult.

I have amended my classification of you. Notice I have not referred to you as a “Never Trumper”. I currently only include you in the Anti-Trumper group on the economic issue. You also agree about this classification by your own admission anove.

You are correct, no one is 100% right about anything, every time. Anyone who believes this could very well be considered a “cult” member. I also don’t happen to believe he is right 100% of the time, though he does seem to be right an amazing amount of the time.

We disagree on how he is handling this one specific issue. Ok, I can accept that. Can you accept that this issue has many aspects? Can you also accept that arguing one aspect, as if it existed in a vacuum, is wrong?

 

[Confluence]

My point was it was obvious by your reply. Nothing more, nothing less.

Whom I consider biased Anti-Trumpers because of their own actions. Your agreement with them means you get lumped into that group too.

I am not, and I don’t believe that. That is your position, I think there are many with experience from many sources that make the hem more qualified. Academics with zero or minimal practical experience are alway going to be the least qualified.

Ok, you agree with them. We have already established your Anti-Trump position on this.

No, I am simply saying that this economic mess is a multi aspect situation. You and your group are fixating on one aspect while ignoring actions on the other aspects to further your Anti-Trump position.

I also disagree with him on a number of issues, though more in how far he is going on them. Some I feel he is giving too high of a priority.

Maybe in your responses to others you could lose the disrespectful attitude until they actually earn it. When they earn it, fine blast them. When you diminish others on the first couple posts they make on a topic, it says more about you than them.

You don't like those critical of Trump. We all understand that.

And yet we can agree that his style and actions are directionally correct, while pointing out that in 3 months, 3 years and 3 decades from now, many in the RoW will not forget his crass "kissing my ***" and " calling me up with 'sir.....' " public narcissism that will make things much less easy for every American not named Trump.

And, fwiw, he did end up publicly kissing Japan's *** on Wednesday just as American bankers were asking Japan to roll over their large holdings in the US10yr auction. The auction that happened just after he told everyone to buy equities and the market rallied because he lowered his threats like OFTB indicated, and the bond market auction allowed for the first of several very large UST refinancings.

Maybe that's why he is also soft on Ukraine and Gaza?