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Full Draft Big Board

Litos said:
you know is a passing league now right?
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And Philly just won the SB how again? Rushing game. KC had to spend every man on trying to stop it, opened it all up.
 
Lloyd said:
And Philly just won the SB how again? Rushing game. KC had to spend every man on trying to stop it, opened it all up.
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You know you already replied to my post like 40 posts back right?
 
madinsomniac said:
Both of the teams that spent 1st rounders on those two guys won nothing with them and let them both walk away to contending teams... again you dont want to be the team spending a first on a rb...
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Yea, Emmitt Smith did terrible.
 
Lloyd said:
Yea, Emmitt Smith did terrible.
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Emmitt smith was drafted 35 years ago... for reference, teams not only drafted straight Rbs, they still drafted fullbacks in the first round till the mid 90's... because it was a totally different era

If that is your example for why a team wanting to win a super bowl should draft a first round rb... well its not a good one... lol
 
madinsomniac said:
Emmitt smith was drafted 35 years ago... for reference, teams not only drafted straight Rbs, they still drafted fullbacks in the first round till the mid 90's... because it was a totally different era

If that is your example for why a team wanting to win a super bowl should draft a first round rb... well its not a good one... lol
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You questioned it and it was proven not always a bad idea, case closed. Was Barry Sanders any good?
 
Lloyd said:
You questioned it and it was proven not always a bad idea, case closed. Was Barry Sanders any good?
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I know you hate losing arguments so you just move goalposts all over, but here was my specific post:

madinsomniac said:
Virtually no RB should go in the first unless
A.) they have the ankles of Barry Sanders
B.) they team doesnt have any other holes except RB


Take a look at super bowl winners over the past 20 years... the teams that won with a first round pick at RB that was their own were:
The Colts with Joeseph Addai
The Pats with Sony Michal and Laurence Maroney
The Chiefs with Clyde Edwards-Helaire...

All of those teams drafted those guys with a contending team in place and all of those guys were average to bust level RBs

-Sony Michals won a Super bowl on the Pats and Rams, but he only spent Three years with the Pats, was traded forca 5th and Sixth, played a season for the rams, bounced around practice squads and then retired with 3243 yards rushing in his career

-Laurance Maroney played 4 injury marred years for the Pats, was traded to the Broncos for a year, then was out of the league... his career high rushing in a season was only 835 yards... he retired with 2504 rushing yards total.

-Clyde Edwards-Helaire played 4 years for the Chiefs... he lost his starting job after year 2. He was on the roster in 3 super Bowls... they lost his first, he was inactive for his second that they won. He was a bench player in his 3rd that they won

His fifth year option was declined... he is currently on the saints... his current career rushing total is 1891 yards.

-Joeseph Addai was the best of the Bunch, but he still only played 6 seasons, all with Indy... he finished with 4453 rushing yards abd another 1448 receiving yards... he only (barely) topped 1000 yards his first two seasons though...

Now teams have traded for or signed in free agency star type first round picks and won with them.. like Barkley last year, and Lynch back with Seattle, but those teams werent spending their first round picks on those players...

There just isnt a correlation to winning super bowls through spending first rounders on RBs.. all of the ones who did it the past 20 seasons probably could have found the same production from a lesser pick or even udfa.. none were special... and truly special backs havent been able to carry teams to super bowls in this era.

There is some data validating trading for a established great back that has fallen out of favor with his drafting team before the end of his first contract though... abd that takes far less of an asset commitment...
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So lets list everything wrong with your counterpoints

A. My example to a 20 year swath of super bowl winning teams. You went back 35 years to an NFL that was not even remotely the same to find a counterexample.. yeah Smith was a key part of superbowls ... but that was 3 decades ago... he is irrelevant to the context of this issue... which is "does taking a first round RB lead to a super bowl win in the modern NFL context..".

B. my statement also started with two potential exemptions, the first specifically calls out Barry Sanders as a potential exemption... like by name... but somehow you try to use him as a counterpoint to the exact same post? Did you read the post?

Bare in mind that Sanders never actually even got to a Superbowl, by the way...
and that of the 4 First round RBs taken that year, he was the only one with a significant career at all..


Nothing you have brought up changes anything about my fact driven post... there is not a correlation between drafting a RB in the first round and winning a superbowl.. there are just more important positions to prioritize...
 
madinsomniac said:
Emmitt smith was drafted 35 years ago... for reference, teams not only drafted straight Rbs, they still drafted fullbacks in the first round till the mid 90's... because it was a totally different era

If that is your example for why a team wanting to win a super bowl should draft a first round rb... well its not a good one... lol
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A certain team just picked up a certain RB taken in the 1st round and won a SB, hmmmmm.
 
madinsomniac said:
I know you hate losing arguments so you just move goalposts all over, but here was my specific post:




So lets list everything wrong with your counterpoints

A. My example to a 20 year swath of super bowl winning teams. You went back 35 years to an NFL that was not even remotely the same to find a counterexample.. yeah Smith was a key part of superbowls ... but that was 3 decades ago... he is irrelevant to the context of this issue... which is "does taking a first round RB lead to a super bowl win in the modern NFL context..".

B. my statement also started with two potential exemptions, the first specifically calls out Barry Sanders as a potential exemption... like by name... but somehow you try to use him as a counterpoint to the exact same post? Did you read the post?

Bare in mind that Sanders never actually even got to a Superbowl, by the way...
and that of the 4 First round RBs taken that year, he was the only one with a significant career at all..


Nothing you have brought up changes anything about my fact driven post... there is not a correlation between drafting a RB in the first round and winning a superbowl.. there are just more important positions to prioritize...
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No goalposts needed moved, your argument sent to the shredder. Ba Bye, (grind).
 
Lloyd said:
A certain team just picked up a certain RB taken in the 1st round and won a SB, hmmmmm.
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Correct, the team that drafted him did not win anything with him, and he was signed by a team that was built to win and was literally the last piece of the puzzle... His other stipulation to drafting a first round running back...again tho, they didn't draft him. They weren't forced to use their #1 pick.

I feel like we're just going in circles and you keep posting the same ****...oh wait, that's all you do.
 
Litos said:
They drafted him? No, so just shut the **** up about it. Strawman argument
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Who the F cares who drafted him? He was a 1st round pick and won it all, period. Now onto the ignore list guano like you usually goes.
 
Lloyd said:
Who the F cares who drafted him? He was a 1st round pick and won it all, period. Now onto the ignore list guano like you usually goes.
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I care, the subject in discussion is Drafting a RB in the 1st, so yeah, it does matter to the conversation. Please do ignore me you inbred ******* idiot
 
Lloyd said:
Who the F cares who drafted him? He was a 1st round pick and won it all, period. Now onto the ignore list guano like you usually goes.
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Well, again, if you want to build a super bowl winning team, you should look at the templates that work in your respective era...

Its all asset management. You have 22 starters, and 53 total players... assuming you hit home runs every year in the first and get 10 to 12 years out of every 1st round pick... a team would still only have 10-12 on a roster at one time... every round after the first its harder and harder to find contributing players...

So wasting a first round pick on a position that can be addressed later in the draft, through udfas, and trades and free agent adds means you have one less opportunity to draft a difference maker at a position harder to acquire...

So yes it matters...
 
madinsomniac said:
Well, again, if you want to build a super bowl winning team, you should look at the templates that work in your respective era...

Its all asset management. You have 22 starters, and 53 total players... assuming you hit home runs every year in the first and get 10 to 12 years out of every 1st round pick... a team would still only have 10-12 on a roster at one time... every round after the first its harder and harder to find contributing players...

So wasting a first round pick on a position that can be addressed later in the draft, through udfas, and trades and free agent adds means you have one less opportunity to draft a difference maker at a position harder to acquire...

So yes it matters...
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So if you draft a Emmitt Smith, Henry, Thurman Thomas, Barkley, Jeantry, McCaffrey, Bettis, Bo Jackson, Fred Taylor, Edge James, Barry Sanders, Gale Sayers, Earl Campbell, Faulk, Payton you'd have really screwed up.
 
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