Love on the field.......... hate off the field...........You be the General

[SteelerFan448]

To put that all on Watt is absolutely RIDICULOUS! Teams know they can't let Watt wreck the game, and when you get into the playoffs, teams (other than Pittsburgh) are giving you new things, focusing more on others. Watt gets ALL the attention.

The playoff game against the Chiefs Ben's last year, Watt was Watt. Had a deflection that turned into an INT by Bush, had a fumble recovery for a TD (first score of the game for either team), Watt was getting penetration most of the game...the issue was the back-ups playing in the secondary all over and the fact that we can never cover a TE. The Chiefs started to hit quick passes, then Kelce over the middle, and then on 3rd and 20 just before the half Kelce gets WIDE open and scores a TD from the 48.

Last year, they forced Watt to crash down on Henry on ALL plays no matter what. There's two playoff games with two different results for Watt, but the same result for the team.

2017, was Watt's rookie year, and was the famous Jags game, you'll see a trend develop here..

In the Browns game for the 20 season, we spotted them 7 points, Ben throws an INT on the second drive and on 3rd and 4, Jones goes 40 yards for a TD. But if you go read the full play by play, and watch the "highlights", all their successful plays went AWAY from Watt. It was 28-0 in the first quarter... But hey, lets criticize Watt for his "poor" playoff performances lol

You want a TEAM full of players that do whatever it takes, but we have a coach that doesn't do whatever it takes, and want to diminish what the ONE GREAT player we have has done because of four games like it's all his fault...yup, makes perfect sense.

Bottom line is they need to win a playoff game.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

To put that all on Watt is absolutely RIDICULOUS! Teams know they can't let Watt wreck the game, and when you get into the playoffs, teams (other than Pittsburgh) are giving you new things, focusing more on others. Watt gets ALL the attention.

The playoff game against the Chiefs Ben's last year, Watt was Watt. Had a deflection that turned into an INT by Bush, had a fumble recovery for a TD (first score of the game for either team), Watt was getting penetration most of the game...the issue was the back-ups playing in the secondary all over and the fact that we can never cover a TE. The Chiefs started to hit quick passes, then Kelce over the middle, and then on 3rd and 20 just before the half Kelce gets WIDE open and scores a TD from the 48.

Last year, they forced Watt to crash down on Henry on ALL plays no matter what. There's two playoff games with two different results for Watt, but the same result for the team.

2017, was Watt's rookie year, and was the famous Jags game, you'll see a trend develop here..

In the Browns game for the 20 season, we spotted them 7 points, Ben throws an INT on the second drive and on 3rd and 4, Jones goes 40 yards for a TD. But if you go read the full play by play, and watch the "highlights", all their successful plays went AWAY from Watt. It was 28-0 in the first quarter... But hey, lets criticize Watt for his "poor" playoff performances lol

You want a TEAM full of players that do whatever it takes, but we have a coach that doesn't do whatever it takes, and want to diminish what the ONE GREAT player we have has done because of four games like it's all his fault...yup, makes perfect sense.

It’s definitely not ALL on Watt
He’s a great player, most of the time, and an asset to the team 100%.

He also doesn’t play just down right nasty, setting that tone that you’re gonna feel the pain and fear the Steelers. Ward did that. He played his *** off all the time (with that infectious smile). You don’t think the entire D elevates when they see Ward executing a crack back and putting Rivers on a milkshake diet for months? I certainly do.

The D couldn’t help but feed off that.

Watt is sometimes flashy, sometimes can even take over a game….but he’s not nasty or feared imho. He’s got great moves, good burst and a helluva finesse player creating turnovers. Again, he’s not feared or nasty or elevating the entire D from that chip on his shoulder. He’s one of the best, but I don’t think he elevates the entire D, he makes life easier for the opposite LB that will continually get less attention…but he’s not nasty like Ward or Deebo…or Lambert for that matter if ya looking at the old days. Those guys set a certain culture that is long gone.

Not being a part of even a single playoff win and going a long stretch of last year’s losing streak without even getting a single mark in the box score is definitely concerning. The results are the results and can’t be ignored. That being said the team’s absolutely pathetic, abysmal record without him and his skill set on the field also can’t be ignored.

Cam and Watt are about the only two players on the D that even have to be accounted for. That is a problem…as is the pathetic system the players are constrained by.

So while I wouldn’t call Watt or Cam (as great as they are) nasty or feared is that a product of the system or the current culture they been a huge part of building? Hard to say what exactly their level of accountability should be within the shackles they play. I’d say the culture thing is part them, the system…all Mike.

Maybe under an aggressive coach it would be a different story.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Bottom line is they need to win a playoff game.

I fully agree, but also want it be known that one playoff win doesn’t mean the ship has righted……

We fans have misused out on so much, for so long that I think it’s going to take a Superbowl win to absolve the Tomlin.




Salute the nation

 

[Pollardo40]

I think Ward is one of the most under rated Steelers of all time. He played his prime years with Tomczak, Graham, Kordell, Maddox before the league went pass happy, still put up the numbers, didn't get a franchise QB until he was 29, then add in the post season performer and all the intangibles, blocking, tone setting, he should be in the HOF.

I’ve been saying for a couple years now that he will go in the year Ben gets inducted.
Might just be my hope though.
That log jam at receiver is something serious.

 

[insaniti]

It’s definitely not ALL on Watt
He’s a great player, most of the time, and an asset to the team 100%.

He also doesn’t play just down right nasty, setting that tone that you’re gonna feel the pain and fear the Steelers. Ward did that. He played his *** off all the time (with that infectious smile). You don’t think the entire D elevates when they see Ward executing a crack back and putting Rivers on a milkshake diet for months? I certainly do.

The D couldn’t help but feed off that.

Watt is sometimes flashy, sometimes can even take over a game….but he’s not nasty or feared imho. He’s got great moves, good burst and a helluva finesse player creating turnovers. Again, he’s not feared or nasty or elevating the entire D from that chip on his shoulder. He’s one of the best, but I don’t think he elevates the entire D, he makes life easier for the opposite LB that will continually get less attention…but he’s not nasty like Ward or Deebo…or Lambert for that matter if ya looking at the old days. Those guys set a certain culture that is long gone.

Not being a part of even a single playoff win and going a long stretch of last year’s losing streak without even getting a single mark in the box score is definitely concerning. The results are the results and can’t be ignored. That being said the team’s absolutely pathetic, abysmal record without him and his skill set on the field also can’t be ignored.

Cam and Watt are about the only two players on the D that even have to be accounted for. That is a problem…as is the pathetic system the players are constrained by.

So while I wouldn’t call Watt or Cam (as great as they are) nasty or feared is that a product of the system or the current culture they been a huge part of building? Hard to say what exactly their level of accountability should be within the shackles they play. I’d say the culture thing is part them, the system…all Mike.

Maybe under an aggressive coach it would be a different story.

So the one guy that can take over a game, is constantly referred to as a game wrecker, that has other coaches constantly saying "we can't let Watt wreck the game" and thus put 2 sometimes 3 guys over to his side to double, chip, cut is not feared?

And that last line is really the only part that rings true. Watt has done what he has done in SPITE of Tomlin and his passive defense. And he is 100% taken advantage of by the coaching staff. And while the playoff wins haven't come, again it's not all on Watt. The offense has rarely showed up to give the D any time to rest, the gameplans have been laughable. To me that is the biggest thing in those whole stretch of "haven't won a playoff game in 10 years".

I think we as fans have just come accustom to the level of play that Watt has demonstrated, that'll it'll be a lot like the Brown situation after the fact. We'll go back and watch career highlights and just go "wow, that guy was ridiculous!"



Here's 42 minutes of Watt highlights, posted by the official NFL youtube channel.

 

[Coryea]

I’ve been saying for a couple years now that he will go in the year Ben gets inducted.
Might just be my hope though.
That log jam at receiver is something serious.

That log jam is because alot of guys that played at the beginning of the pass happy NFL are becoming eligible, that's definitely hurting Ward, he played his prime years before the league/rules went pass happy.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

So the one guy that can take over a game, is constantly referred to as a game wrecker, that has other coaches constantly saying "we can't let Watt wreck the game" and thus put 2 sometimes 3 guys over to his side to double, chip, cut is not feared?

And that last line is really the only part that rings true. Watt has done what he has done in SPITE of Tomlin and his passive defense. And he is 100% taken advantage of by the coaching staff. And while the playoff wins haven't come, again it's not all on Watt. The offense has rarely showed up to give the D any time to rest, the gameplans have been laughable. To me that is the biggest thing in those whole stretch of "haven't won a playoff game in 10 years".

I think we as fans have just come accustom to the level of play that Watt has demonstrated, that'll it'll be a lot like the Brown situation after the fact. We'll go back and watch career highlights and just go "wow, that guy was ridiculous!"



Here's 42 minutes of Watt highlights, posted by the official NFL youtube channel.

Nope not feared
Respected-yes
Accounted for-yes

Fear- nope

Nothing scary about his game
Nothing nasty about his game
Timing a QBs release and tipping balls or making amazing picks doesn’t instill fear…nor does setting them down gently after a sack

Again, I’m not disrespecting his game
He’s amazing most of the time (except some streaks where he does absolutely nothing as he is schemed out by the opponent)

But hell no he doesn’t instill fear

His game is more finesse and quite “cute”
Helluva player, but not feared

James laughs at how cute his game is

Ward definitely more feared than Watt

 

[insaniti]

Nope tot feared
Respected-yes
Accounted for-yes

Fear- nope

Nothing scary about his game
Nothing nasty about his game
Timing a QBs release and tipping balls or making amazing picks doesn’t instill fear.

Again, I’m not disrespecting his game
He’s amazing most of the time (except some streaks where he does absolutely nothing)

But hell no he doesn’t instill fear

His game is more finesse and quite “cute”
Helluva player, but not feared

James laughs at how cute his game is

Well, I'm gonna disagree with the fear aspect...

but don't you think trying to compare him and the current era in which he plays in to Deebo is, well impossible? I mean, Deebo couldn't even play in his own era without massive fines for hits and "nasty" play. Show me a player in the current state of the NFL that "instills fear" in the sense that you are trying to imply...

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Well, I'm gonna disagree with the fear aspect...

but don't you think trying to compare him and the current era in which he plays in to Deebo is, well impossible? I mean, Deebo couldn't even play in his own era without massive fines for hits and "nasty" play. Show me a player in the current state of the NFL that "instills fear" in the sense that you are trying to imply...

I’m exactly comparing him to them
And fully realize the eras have changed

You confirm what I’ve said
Deebo was indeed feared
In that era fear was achievable

Nobody fears Watt in this pussified era

Watching those highlights further cemented by belief about his cute, finesse game in a finesse era.

Lotta shoe string tackles, tipped balls, amazing picks and setting down QBs nicely
But **** I could be a QB and have zero fear Watt is gonna wreck me.

In this era ya gotta be a bit crazy, take a penalty, take some fines to be feared. Maybe crack a QB over the head with his own helmet or something???

Watt is awesome-but definitely NOT feared

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Well, I'm gonna disagree with the fear aspect...

but don't you think trying to compare him and the current era in which he plays in to Deebo is, well impossible? I mean, Deebo couldn't even play in his own era without massive fines for hits and "nasty" play. Show me a player in the current state of the NFL that "instills fear" in the sense that you are trying to imply...

Aaron Donald- feared. Had to be accounted for and would absolutely blow a dude up. Pain is coming with that man.

Myles Garrett- feared, mostly cuz he’s crazy but will blow a guy up

Just dating back last 2 seasons Madabuike, Oliver and Wilkins all achieved as many or more roughing the passer penalties in a single season than Watt has in his entire career…and damn he’s had a bunch more opportunities with how much he gets to the QB.

Watt is a all-pro at setting a QB down gently, playing with finesse and staying within the pussified rules. Still ain’t scary.

It’s not an indictment that he plays within the pussified rules and plays with finesse…he’s one of if not the best in the league as a pass rusher. Still ain’t scary.

And that’s ok, very few do instill fear anymore

 

[Drink IRON City]

Nope not feared
Respected-yes
Accounted for-yes

Fear- nope

Nothing scary about his game
Nothing nasty about his game
Timing a QBs release and tipping balls or making amazing picks doesn’t instill fear…nor does setting them down gently after a sack

Again, I’m not disrespecting his game
He’s amazing most of the time (except some streaks where he does absolutely nothing as he is schemed out by the opponent)

But hell no he doesn’t instill fear

His game is more finesse and quite “cute”
Helluva player, but not feared

James laughs at how cute his game is

Ward definitely more feared than Watt

Absolutely no disrespect for TJ WATT in my eyes, nbut the last 4 games he had 7 tackles…………………

that’s it. No sacks / fumbles / recoveries / pass defensed / hurries / QB hits,……….NOT-A / Zilch / Nothing………………..




Salute the nation

 

[Coryea]

Absolutely no disrespect for TJ WATT in my eyes, nbut the last 4 games he had 7 tackles…………………

that’s it. No sacks / fumbles / recoveries / pass defensed / hurries / QB hits,……….NOT-A / Zilch / Nothing………………..




Salute the nation

The year Myles Garrett won DPOY, he had he had 1 sack, 9 tackles, 0 FF, 0 FR, 0 PD in his last 6 games.

The last 4 games, Watt did have 2TFL, 2QBHits, 1 PD, and 1 FF.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WattT.00/gamelog/2024/

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Absolutely no disrespect for TJ WATT in my eyes, nbut the last 4 games he had 7 tackles…………………

that’s it. No sacks / fumbles / recoveries / pass defensed / hurries / QB hits,……….NOT-A / Zilch / Nothing………………..




Salute the nation

Right!

Went a 4 game stretch without etching a single mark in the box score if memory serves correctly.

Shows ya that maybe the rest of the league is finding a way to scheme a game wrecker out of being a factor because said game wrecker is operating within the constraints of a simp’s system.

The Rats game showed us all we need to know moving forward. That was the crescendo of a simp coach’s career for me: doing less with more, it’s not just a Tomcept anymore…it’s a career path

 

[jitter77]

Right!

Went a 4 game stretch without etching a single mark in the box score if memory serves correctly.

Shows ya that maybe the rest of the league is finding a way to scheme a game wrecker out of being a factor because said game wrecker is operating within the constraints of a simp’s system.

The Rats game showed us all we need to know moving forward. That was the crescendo of a simp coach’s career for me: doing less with more, it’s not just a Tomcept anymore…it’s a career path

I have watched alot of football and I have never seen a gameplan like we did in the Ravens game. It's one thing to key or spy on a player, but recklessly tackling Henry at all costs was on a different level. I remember the days where we did not allow 100yrd rushers and we did not have to do anything special. We have always had success against Lamar so I'm not sure why they tried to reinvent the wheel

 

[Drink IRON City]

The year Myles Garrett won DPOY, he had he had 1 sack, 9 tackles, 0 FF, 0 FR, 0 PD in his last 6 games.

The last 4 games, Watt did have 2TFL, 2QBHits, 1 PD, and 1 FF.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WattT.00/gamelog/2024/

I was just going by what I thought I’d heard from DK Sports. Still minimum impact for TJ Watt, none the less.

You and I both know why Helmet Swinger won the DPOY, a success rate that isn’t even a stat……

TJ Watt should have 2 DPOY awards, no argument. A case for a 3rd could be made.




Salute the nation

 

[insaniti]

Absolutely no disrespect for TJ WATT in my eyes, nbut the last 4 games he had 7 tackles…………………

that’s it. No sacks / fumbles / recoveries / pass defensed / hurries / QB hits,……….NOT-A / Zilch / Nothing………………..




Salute the nation

I've got a lot of time on my hands right now (still light duty at work), I rewatched the last game of the season vs the Bengals. Watt was in the backfield a TON that game, but Burrow was getting the ball out so fast, he was just a split second late. And it wasn't just him, Highsmith and Cam were in there a lot too. But you look at the final box score, and there isn't anything from Watt. Only a tackle from Cam, and Highsmith with 4 tackles. But Watt hit Burrow at least 3 times, either alone or combined with one of the other two. This "zero stats" the last four games diminishes the impact that he can have on a game even if he doesn't have the splash plays. He was heavily involved, and the Bengals did everything they could to keep him from making a splash.

 

[Coryea]

I was just going by what I thought I’d heard from DK Sports. Still minimum impact for TJ Watt, none the less.

You and I both know why Helmet Swinger won the DPOY, a success rate that isn’t even a stat……

TJ Watt should have 2 DPOY awards, no argument. A case for a 3rd could be made.




Salute the nation

Yeah minimum for Watt but you average those numbers out over 17 games and it's a decent year for alot of LB's, so guys like Dejan and guys on the fan use the "he put up zero's across the board" just to fit their argument when it's not even true just to push their narrative and it works, because fans think that it must be fact if they're saying it.

 

[Coryea]

I've got a lot of time on my hands right now (still light duty at work), I rewatched the last game of the season vs the Bengals. Watt was in the backfield a TON that game, but Burrow was getting the ball out so fast, he was just a split second late. And it wasn't just him, Highsmith and Cam were in there a lot too. But you look at the final box score, and there isn't anything from Watt. Only a tackle from Cam, and Highsmith with 4 tackles. But Watt hit Burrow at least 3 times, either alone or combined with one of the other two. This "zero stats" the last four games diminishes the impact that he can have on a game even if he doesn't have the splash plays. He was heavily involved, and the Bengals did everything they could to keep him from making a splash.

Yep exactly what happened in that Browns playoff game, when the Browns threw they were throwing the ball so fast that Watt couldn't get to the QB, and they ran alot to our defenses right side and of course we played our soft coverage and allowed it.
It's not hard to scheme against one defensive player if you know they won't adjust to anything and they are going to change what they do. Teams chip then double Watt and we send a couple blitzes from the opposite side, they'll have to account for that and take someone away from Watt, but nah, WE DO WHAT WE DO!

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I've got a lot of time on my hands right now (still light duty at work), I rewatched the last game of the season vs the Bengals. Watt was in the backfield a TON that game, but Burrow was getting the ball out so fast, he was just a split second late. And it wasn't just him, Highsmith and Cam were in there a lot too. But you look at the final box score, and there isn't anything from Watt. Only a tackle from Cam, and Highsmith with 4 tackles. But Watt hit Burrow at least 3 times, either alone or combined with one of the other two. This "zero stats" the last four games diminishes the impact that he can have on a game even if he doesn't have the splash plays. He was heavily involved, and the Bengals did everything they could to keep him from making a splash.

Remind me, what the results of those last 4 games?

Just effin with ya, we ALL remember

0-4

All that slightly hurrying him and touching him a few times sure had a helluva impact.

If that’s the level of impact that can be expected moving forward (he’ll likely start to decline soon so maybe less impact in future years) management would be absolute morons to pay him the 40m+ he is seeking.

Again he’s a helluva player…potentially
But within the constraints of the simp’s system if these are the expected results and impact from a 40m+ player that would be absolutely a waste of cap space and they should 100% be shopping him for either young/cheap players and/or draft capital.

Tomceptually the Steelers are ****** if this is what is expected for a 40m “game wrecker”

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Yep exactly what happened in that Browns playoff game, when the Browns threw they were throwing the ball so fast that Watt couldn't get to the QB, and they ran alot to our defenses right side and of course we played our soft coverage and allowed it.
It's not hard to scheme against one defensive player if you know they won't adjust to anything and they are going to change what they do. Teams chip then double Watt and we send a couple blitzes from the opposite side, they'll have to account for that and take someone away from Watt, but nah, WE DO WHAT WE DO!

100%

Why have nice things if the simp makes em look like Jarvis Jones?

The easy answer won’t be made by Art Nutting tho

 

[Drink IRON City]

I've got a lot of time on my hands right now (still light duty at work), I rewatched the last game of the season vs the Bengals. Watt was in the backfield a TON that game, but Burrow was getting the ball out so fast, he was just a split second late. And it wasn't just him, Highsmith and Cam were in there a lot too. But you look at the final box score, and there isn't anything from Watt. Only a tackle from Cam, and Highsmith with 4 tackles. But Watt hit Burrow at least 3 times, either alone or combined with one of the other two. This "zero stats" the last four games diminishes the impact that he can have on a game even if he doesn't have the splash plays. He was heavily involved, and the Bengals did everything they could to keep him from making a splash.

Yeah minimum for Watt but you average those numbers out over 17 games and it's a decent year for alot of LB's, so guys like Dejan and guys on the fan use the "he put up zero's across the board" just to fit their argument when it's not even true just to push their narrative and it works, because fans think that it must be fact if they're saying it.

Stats don’t always show the game. This is a case in point. When TJ is drawing that double team or possibly 3rd guy, where the hella is our other guys.?

I do know that our new rookie DL guy will make things much harder on the opposition to double or triple. Pulling that opposite guard will be much harder to do as the new guy will exploit that.

Our D scheme needs a blitz package or two and actually use them in game.

Tomlin has spoke that change needs to happen, Maybe this year will be the year he actually lets change happen.

I have HOPE.


PS. Great post(s) by both of you guys, I appreciate yaz.




Salute the nation

 

[Pollardo40]

That log jam is because alot of guys that played at the beginning of the pass happy NFL are becoming eligible, that's definitely hurting Ward, he played his prime years before the league/rules went pass happy.

So I kinda agree. But the pendulum swings the other way. Calvin & Andre Johnson I believe are the only 2 receivers that have been inducted drafted past 1998 (Moss). Obviously if you’re HOF worthy, you probably haven’t been eligible for long at that point. But it Doesn’t help the players currently get it, that some of the “old heads,” that may or may not be worthy are getting pushed in now. It does help the “logjam,” in the sense that these receivers from the 70-90s are getting in.

Personally, I think the HOF bar is relatively low in the NFL. If you’re inducting 10ish per year, at some point you’re letting some players in that aren’t quite the same level as others.

 

[Pollardo40]

Again he’s a helluva player…potentially
But within the constraints of the simp’s system if these are the expected results and impact from a 40m+ player that would be absolutely a waste of cap space and they should 100% be shopping him for either young/cheap players and/or draft capital.

I think there’s an elephant in the room that some people may not realize. Within the NFLs rule of requiring teams to spend 90% of the cap in cash over a 3 year period. What we would need to spend this year in CASH (not cap) lines up nicely with what a TJ contract will likely look like.

Also, an extension would likely lower his cap this year.

The “he’s not worth 40 mil” kills me. A year ago we’re talking about him as the best edge rusher in the nfl. He got hurt, and now (we) Steelers fans in typical fashion turn our backs on that player.
40 million is simply the going rate at this point.
Garrett got 40, hunter & crosby 35. He’s better than 2 of them. 3 is debatable.

3 years from now that 40 mil is a cheap deal. Just like the DK contract.

 

[Drink IRON City]

The FO needs to get the TJ Watt deal done. The3y have had plenty of time and can afford to finish the distraction before it becomes one.

TJ is worth the 41.5 mill / season. What it comes down to is the guaranteed money.

My guess is 116 to 122 million guaranteed……….. 5yr deal, retires a STEELERS player, with 2-Super-Bowl MVPs.



Salute the nation

 

[Fiji Mariner]

My guess is 116 to 122 million guaranteed……….. 5yr deal, retires a STEELERS player, with 2-Super-Bowl MVPs.



Salute the nation

Smells like a strong batch came to harvest, anxiously awaiting next drop

2 time SB MVP

At this point I’m guessing it’s a payout of 160-200m for 1 maybe 2 playoff victories total…ouch

I love your optimism clouded by the curiously strong batch though…can’t wait to take it for a test drive.

Bacon