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Steelersreign said:
It doesn’t matter to me as to when.

Doctors of the church have studied this and everything else for hundreds of years.

It the church and priest believe this devotion to be true to Christ and Christ’s words.
So do I.
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Even when it was not biblical but political in nature and will lead to ruination of the modern Church, in my opinion. Much of my family has left the Catholic church over so much of the dogma and politics. I find it sad. I also don't find it to be much better in many of the Protestant denominations. Too much money and greed not enough faith. FYI I was raised Presbyterian but much of my family was Catholic.
 
Steelersreign said:
I see you have a problem with the churches beliefs in a priests devotion to Christ that goes back thousands of years.

They are closer to God by our beliefs even though your beliefs differ.
I believe that to be the case.

You do not.
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Correct.
I take great umbrage when humans corrupt the word/intention/laws/commandments/etc. of God.
I don't care what denomination is doing it.

Please be careful assuming that because someone is given a worldly title, that it makes them greater in the Lord's eye than yourself.
The pope is no better or worse than you.
Maybe he devotes more of himself to God than you, MAYBE.
But contrary to popular belief, the pope is in fact fallible and also falls short, just like the rest of us.
Man is not perfect and capable of being corrupted and mislead, regardless of their man given title.
 
fedderone said:
Correct.
I take great umbrage when humans corrupt the word/intention/laws/commandments/etc. of God.
I don't care what denomination is doing it.

Please be careful assuming that because someone is given a worldly title, that it makes them greater in the Lord's eye than yourself.
The pope is no better or worse than you.
Maybe he devotes more of himself to God than you, MAYBE.
But contrary to popular belief, the pope is in fact fallible and also falls short, just like the rest of us.
Man is not perfect and capable of being corrupted and mislead, regardless of their man given title.
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You are correct.
But I am sure the Popes of the past and present have helped many more lives then little old me has.

And that is what Jesus preached to do.
Help others.

The humans/apostles created the church by their understanding of Christs teachings to them.
just like the doctors of the church and saints and every other holy person has done.

It is different then your understanding of Jesus’s teachings and devotions.
 
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SteelerInLebanon said:
And many of the Church's leaders were and are politicians more than true clergy. The early organized Church was created by the Roman Empire as means to keep political control of a populous. That is why Christmas is when it is and many of the Easter traditions borrow from non-Christian Roman festivals and have absolutely nothing to do with actual Christianity. What was and wasn't included in the Bible itself when it was canonized was as much a debate about politics as it was faith. Why this book and not that book? I am a Christian but from having studied more and more on the formation and reformation of the Church I am not very satisfied with what organized religion does to the faith.

This could be its own thread as we have gone quite the tangent here. Good Job Trog in getting us off topic.
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THANK YOU, SIL!
The greatest period to study is early 300s.
This is when Constantine had his dream, saw he was losing his kingdom, and blended Christianity with Roman Empire.
The first domino to fall was the Edict of Milan.
This prevented the persecution and killing of ONE GOD believing Christians.
Constantine then devised a way for both pagan polytheists and one God doctrine Christians to blend their beliefs.
The emperor became the pope, local governors became bishops, etc.
This is also where the concept of the trinity was born, so it satisfied both polytheists and Christians, as well as making Mary some kind of deity figure.
It was the great bastardization, that also spawned Lutheran and Baptist and a host of other denominations.
 
Steelersreign said:
It doesn’t matter to me as to when.

Doctors of the church have studied this and everything else for hundreds of years.

It the church and priest believe this devotion to be true to Christ and Christ’s words.
So do I.
Click to expand...
Again, NOT judging Steelersreign, asking as genuinely curious.
Is the word of man greater than the word of God?
Does dogmatic church law trump God's own word?
Since this is part of the conversation that helped us split off in this tangent, if tomorrow the church decried all worshipers must become pedophiles, you're jumping in no questions asked and just blindly following, since these doctors of the church say so with the pope's blessing?
 
fedderone said:
Again, NOT judging Steelersreign, asking as genuinely curious.
Is the word of man greater than the word of God?
Does dogmatic church law trump God's own word?
Since this is part of the conversation that helped us split off in this tangent, if tomorrow the church decried all worshipers must become pedophiles, you're jumping in no questions asked and just blindly following, since these doctors of the church say so with the pope's blessing?
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Come on. Do I really sound like Trog to you?
Make a fair comparison.

The word of God has devotion in the entire Bible.
The Old Testament sacrificed animals
The new testament sacrificed Jesus for all human kind, etc.

Where do you understand there are no devotions?
Show your proof.
Where did Jesus say no devotions to me?
 
Steelersreign said:
You are correct.
But I am sure the Popes of the past and present have helped many more lives then little old me has.

And that is what Jesus preached to do.
Help others.

The humans/apostles created the church by their understanding of Christs teachings to them.
just like the doctors of the church and saints and every other holy person has done.

It is different then your understanding of Jesus’s teachings and devotions.
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My teachings and understanding of Jesus would not have condoned the Inquisition.
My teachings and understanding of Jesus would not have condoned the Crusades.
My teachings and understanding of Jesus would not have condoned the bribing of indigent people with food/clothing/shelter but only if they converted to Catholicism via missionary work.
My teachings and understanding of Jesus would not have condoned the top to bottom coverup of the rape and murder of nuns and the hands of priests, and the top to bottom coverup of rape and pedophilia of alter boys and schoolchildren, especially deaf and mentally retarded children.

Is it your contention that "nobody's perfect/gotta crack some eggs to make an omelette" and that these things are insignificant and should be ignored because they also teach their interpretation of the word of God?
Matthew 24 - Beware of those claiming to come in God's name, but are deceivers and false profits ( NOT exact verbatim, condensed gist ).
 
fedderone said:
My teachings and understanding of Jesus would not have condoned the Inquisition.
My teachings and understanding of Jesus would not have condoned the Crusades.
My teachings and understanding of Jesus would not have condoned the bribing of indigent people with food/clothing/shelter but only if they converted to Catholicism via missionary work.
My teachings and understanding of Jesus would not have condoned the top to bottom coverup of the rape and murder of nuns and the hands of priests, and the top to bottom coverup of rape and pedophilia of alter boys and schoolchildren, especially deaf and mentally retarded children.

Is it your contention that "nobody's perfect/gotta crack some eggs to make an omelette" and that these things are insignificant and should be ignored because they also teach their interpretation of the word of God?
Matthew 24 - Beware of those claiming to come in God's name, but are deceivers and false profits ( NOT exact verbatim, condensed gist ).
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Those people sinned.
Are they people or God?
 
Sooo, how 'bout that covid vaccine? Crazy, right?
 
Steelersreign said:
Come on. Do I really sound like Trog to you?
Make a fair comparison.

The word of God has devotion in the entire Bible.
The Old Testament sacrificed animals
The new testament sacrificed Jesus for all human kind, etc.

Where do you understand there are no devotions?
Show your proof.
Where did Jesus say no devotions to me?
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Sorry, I'm not understanding this line of thinking.
Devotions?
And I am asking a serious question about the hypothetical pedophilia edict of the church.
Yes, it's ABSURD, but that's my point.
At what point do you think for yourself, instead of having someone think for you?
If you believe the bible is the word of God, certainly some things that are man made laws contradict the words of the bible directly, regardless of denomination.

And yes, the mistake many make is comparing laws in the Old Testament vs New Testament as contradictions.
If you read from start to finish, God changes the laws, mostly because us humans kept overstepping.
This is why animal sacrifices in the OT, and Jesus was the lamb, and no more sacrifices.
Early OT - men could have many wives. Late OT and NT - monogamy.
Etc.
There's never contradiction, just evolution.
 
fedderone said:
Sorry, I'm not understanding this line of thinking.
Devotions?
And I am asking a serious question about the hypothetical pedophilia edict of the church.
Yes, it's ABSURD, but that's my point.
At what point do you think for yourself, instead of having someone think for you?
If you believe the bible is the word of God, certainly some things that are man made laws contradict the words of the bible directly, regardless of denomination.

And yes, the mistake many make is comparing laws in the Old Testament vs New Testament as contradictions.
If you read from start to finish, God changes the laws, mostly because us humans kept overstepping.
This is why animal sacrifices in the OT, and Jesus was the lamb, and no more sacrifices.
Early OT - men could have many wives. Late OT and NT - monogamy.
Etc.
There's never contradiction, just evolution.
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Your and educated man. Do some research.
Many great doctors of the church and others have given their life for the study of Christ.
I respect them and their life’s work.
Others in every belief have also sinned.

I can’t explain what is in one’s heart and soul on a message board.

Happy New Year.
 
Steelersreign said:
Those people sinned.
Are they people or God?
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Seriously?
I get an individual sinning.
And a sin is a sin, there's no degrees of sins, contrary to popular belief.
But an institutional coverup of sins, or an institutional declaration to go out in the world and sin in the name of Jesus, is WAY beyond and not even remotely close to each other.
Apples and hand grenades.
 
fedderone said:
Seriously?
I get an individual sinning.
And a sin is a sin, there's no degrees of sins, contrary to popular belief.
But an institutional coverup of sins, or an institutional declaration to go out in the world and sin in the name of Jesus, is WAY beyond and not even remotely close to each other.
Apples and hand grenades.
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That is your opinion.
My is way different
Humans sin.
I don’t know any of those sinners you mentioned. The church I know helps people including me.
 
Steelersreign said:
Your and educated man. Do some research.
Many great doctors of the church and others have given their life for the study of Christ.
I respect them and their life’s work.
Others in every belief have also sinned.

I can’t explain what is in one’s heart and soul on a message board.

Happy New Year.
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Thank you for the compliment.
I devote a lot of my time and life to research the teachings of God, the bible, and all the history of both.

100%.
You can't prove you love someone, just like you can't prove belief in God.
It's always an internal feeling that you try your best to explain and prove, but will always have holes punched in it.

I respect a lot of scholars, religious leaders, and God fearing Christians I've had the pleasure of speaking with.
It doesn't mean I side with their beliefs/interpretations over the word of God.

Merry New Year!
 
fedderone said:
Thank you for the compliment.
I devote a lot of my time and life to research the teachings of God, the bible, and all the history of both.

100%.
You can't prove you love someone, just like you can't prove belief in God.
It's always an internal feeling that you try your best to explain and prove, but will always have holes punched in it.

I respect a lot of scholars, religious leaders, and God fearing Christians I've had the pleasure of speaking with.
It doesn't mean I side with their beliefs/interpretations over the word of God.

Merry New Year!
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Your welcome happy New Year and be safe.
 
Steelersreign said:
That is your opinion.
My is way different
Humans sin.
I don’t know any of those sinners you mentioned. The church I know helps people including me.
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You're unaware of the church's coverup of pedophile priests, murdering priests?
Please tell me you're being facetious.
 
IndySteel said:
Well, I’m ******. I’d confess but I lost my standing with the church when I refused to jump through their hoops to get my first marriage annulled.
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I have a lot to worry about when judgement day comes also.
I am trying my best to change that.
 
Djfan said:
Wasn't that taken care of by Jesus' death on the cross?
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I believe you have a Christian teaching background.
I am not a religious teacher. I would love to here what you have to say.

Numerous times he says to people,
“your faith has saved you. Sin no more.”

There are so many scenarios to study.
 
Steelersreign said:
I believe you have a Christian teaching background.
I am not a religious teacher. I would love to here what you have to say.

Numerous times he says to people,
“your faith has saved you. Sin no more.”

There are so many scenarios to study.
Click to expand...
I was a pastor for four years in the late 80s, and would love to return to it. The problem is that I am divorced and remarried. That is a career killer.

I was raised in a very traditional, very active Catholic family. My dad was a monk for 11 years before he left and met my mom. He then got his Phd from a Jesuit University, and spent his career teaching at a Catholic University at the seminary there. After retiring, he drove to Tijuana, Mex 3x a week to teach in Mother Theresa's seminary there. That's how I got to meet her.

Still, I couldn't reconcile what I read in my Bible - the Catholic one Mom got me for my confirmation - with what I was taught and saw. I left the Catholic Church, and decided to go on a quest to live a walk with God that was as bare bones as it could be without losing the teachings of the Bible.

My views are not in line with many organized churches, but I share many of the foundational teachings with them.

So, ask whatever you wish to, but understand my answers will be from the Bible only, or non committal.
 
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