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Noll, Cowher, Tomlin…fire them all!

Noll spent his career on winning teams as a player and then as a coach. Noll in the 80’s was hit by the Rooney cheapness and pettiness. remember Mike merryweather? Noll and dungy coached him up to be the best linebacker in football… Over hundred tackles 17 sacks year in year out Rooney’s wouldn’t pay him he wasn’t the only one. Then kept snipping at Noll about coaches. It was the Rooney’s that ran off dungy and Moore. Believe you me they were sticking their nose in Tomlin’s business! As long as Art jr calls the shots we run will run a dated 3-4 defense cuz it’s not the steel curtain and the curtain era was his fathers era not his… he HAS TO BE AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN HIS FATHER!! And guess what he’s not!! We will not win a championship with these guys running this team. The rule changes have basically forced you to get a really good offensive thinker-HC. Notice Andy at KC traded their speedster wr? And they won the sb? We never could never do that!. With a dc head coach the owner and or gm can and will stick their nose in! If they hire an old sod like McCarthy they have a deal in place where they decide everything.
 
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Steelmann said:
Have to disagree Ike. While I agree CMT has been criticized nonstop, I’d think it was a very low percentage of people blamed the coaches for the GB loss. I’d say most blame Mendenhall.
Personally I’ve always put more blame on the Big Ben and the offense in the first half. Those interceptions,one being a pick 6 were killers against a team led by AR in his prime. And yet redemption could have been made. Having the ball with 2 minutes to go for the win……and for me it was the most disappointing drive in the Steelers history. Absolutely horrible.

While obviously Mendenhall is a flake and quite unpopular,I think he’s gotten a bad rap. The fumble was a great hit/play by Matthews.
Interesting enough the week before playing the Jets in the AFC championship Big Ben had an absolute horrible game. All of 10-19 for 133 yards,2 fumbles,2 interceptions. Also giving up a safety. William Gay got that TD and Mendenhall was the offense,kicking in 121 yards with a couple big receptions. Without him they don’t even get to the SB.
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Perfectly fine Steelmann, we all have opinions, just like we all have a sphincter….well maybe the majority of us do. As Litos later indicated TE/FB Johnson’s blown blocking attempt was the cause and effect of Mendenhall’s fumble. Still RBs are trained to protect the ball on every play. They run drills on this in every practice. Just like receivers and DBs hit the jugs machine. So Richard was the hyper focused scapegoat. As I said previously, our defense was keeping AR in check. Had we scored a TD on that drive, I believe we would have held GB to a field goal at the worst to tie the game, with the winner having the last possession in regulation.

Confluence said:
Most of the GB secondary were injured before or during the game. When Tomlin was asked afterwards why he didn't attack those backups he mumbled about that not being the gameplay or similar. Horrible situational awareness by the HC led to lack of adjustments.

Whiff, Ben and Spinthenfall all get a share of the blame pie, but Tomlin certainly deserves a big slice.
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Agree to disagree here. Yeah Ben was getting a lot of pressures throughout the game (5 IIRC) attributed to 3 turnovers. But remember BA was the OC and his spread scheme gave no help on passing situations. Buck stops with the HC, but the players make or break plays.
 
stuntmanmike said:
Noll spent his career on winning teams as a player and then as a coach. Noll in the 80’s was hit by the Rooney cheapness and pettiness. remember Mike merryweather? Noll and dungy coached him up to be the best linebacker in football… Over hundred tackles 17 sacks year in year out Rooney’s wouldn’t pay him he wasn’t the only one. Then kept snipping at Noll about coaches. It was the Rooney’s that ran off dungy and Moore. Believe you me they were sticking their nose in Tomlin’s business! As long as Art jr calls the shots we run will run a dated 3-4 defense cuz it’s not the steel curtain and the curtain era was his fathers era not his… he HAS TO BE AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN HIS FATHER!! And guess what he’s not!! We will not win a championship with these guys running this team. The rule changes have basically forced you to get a really good offensive thinker-HC. Notice Andy at KC traded their speedster wr? And they won the sb? We never could never do that!. With a dc head coach the owner and or gm can and will stick their nose in! If they hire an old sod like McCarthy they have a deal in place where they decide everything.
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It was no secret that PIT didn’t spend as much as other teams, but that was because the revenue limitations from Three Rivers Stadium did not allow Dan Rooney to compete with player salaries that other teams with greater revenue generation had. After Heinz Field was built, PIT was much more involved with keeping or obtaining players. So the “cheapness/pettiness” was more being fiscally responsible to keeping the franchise in the black before the new stadium was built.

Not sure where the dialogue regarding Art Jr. is coming from. He never ran the franchise, Dan did. Dan let Noll handle all team operations. Art Jr. ran Player Personnel and scouting and was responsible for those great drafts in the early to late 70’s. Early in the 80’s Noll communicated Art Jr’s Personnel department was not considering the coaches input on players in the draft. Art Jr. felt the process should be only his department was responsible for drafting players and coaches were to use/coach those players his department selected to perform. Dan felt that the sides should work together, of which Art Jr disagreed. As a result Dan had to fire his brother in 1986 from Player Personnel duties. The combination of coaches, player evaluators combined in scouting for the draft replacing the prior process. I remember my uncles and older cousins constantly arguing who was in the wrong (majority said Art Jr. was). There was friction between Art Jr. and Dan too and it resulted in Art Jr. running one of the non-football operations of the franchise. Ironically, the same thing happened late in the 1990s with Cowher and Donahoe who slowly transitioned to Art Jr’s previous process after several seasons of being the Personnel Director. After Donahoe being let go, the current HC, GM, Owner decide together method was finalized.

This narrative that ownership ran off coaches is just not accurate. Noll had full control over coaches, and team operations. Dan rarely if ever got involved. The only well known occurrence was when Noll was sued in 1977 by the Raiders organization for the “criminal element” litigation of which being a franchise owner had to allow PIT coaches and players to be subpoenaed during training camp that year. There were players and coaches flying to and from California while camp was in process at Latrobe. It was a huge distraction with countersuing on both sides and Mel Blount even threatening to suing Noll. I think that was the year Lambert held out during camp and Ernie Holmes went shooting at a police helicopter. That was a wild year.
 
Chicoman said:
There's a big difference between all 3 coaches.....

Noll built the greatest NFL team of All-Time.....they all retired....he was actually very close to rebuilding that team to a Super Bowl Contender in the late 80's.....if my memory serves me correctly they lost a nail biter to Denver in the Divisional Round by 1 point. In the off-season he lost all 3 coordinators to other teams for coaching poisitions but he had the team ready to contend for a Super Bowl for those who think the game passed Chuck by they were wrong!

Bill Cowher - Finally figured out you needed to play to win the game and not play turtle ball. The guy had nothing but journeymen QB's until Big Ben arrived.....Cowher stepped down because of his wife's progressively worse cancer diagnosis. He chose family over football while trying to care for his wife who died months after his retirement and his 3 children.....one who was still in High School. I hated how his career ended because he finally had a franchise QB. If Cowher stayed I think they would have won a couple more! Cowher's troubles in the late 90's were due to some terrible assistant coaches and the GM Tom Donahoe. Remember Ray Sherman?

Mike Tomlin - Was gifted a Super Bowl contender team with an All-Pro Roster both offensively and defensively! He won 1 Super Bowl and made it to another. Once the core of Cowher-Era players were gone his teams consistently under achieved. He was never able to rebuild that team into a serious SuperBowl Contender even with the 3 B's and the most high powered Steelers offense in Franchise History! He continued to hire sub-par Assistant Coaches. I'll agree with James Harrison & Terry Bradshaw when it comes to Mike Tomlin. He was ok but not as good as Cowher or Noll. As for the no losing season.....yeah ok....8-8 is not what I'd call a winning season! If Mediocrity is the new Standard that doesn't work for me!
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No coach in the history of the league had more talent on the same field. Hof QB #1 WR #1 Rb Heath Miller. All in their prime besides Miller. Harrison etc.
All that and Zero to show for.
That loss to Blake Bortles soured me on Tomlin for good.
Outside Brady Mahommes Gronk Kelce Hill and Moss. Belichik and Reid had hot garbage in comparison to the killer bees.
 
MTC said:
Can say would’ve, could’ve, should’ve here, but if Cowher’s wife wasn’t going through what she did, I think the Steelers win at least 2 more under Cowher.
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Cowher was a much better Coach than Tomlin, no would've, could've, should've in that statement.
 
Coryea said:
Cowher was a much better Coach than Tomlin, no would've, could've, should've in that statement.
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Agree but he also hired some real duds at OC. Difference is that he’d fire them and not wait for their contracts to run out.
 
Coryea said:
Yeah the non losing thing was impressive, but the fact no one cares about it anymore because of his atrocious historic playoff slump makes everyone overlook those non losing seasons, just shows how really bad that playoff drought is.
I'm not so sure Tomlin did step down on his own, him being here almost 20 years and then stepping down on his own and not having a press conference makes me think he may have been fired.
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Meh, it probably was the Noll situation... the Rooneys wanted him to clean house on the assistants and he stepped down rather than have them rebuild the staff...


Though that rumor about the girl is not debunked yet... my neighbors daughter claims to know her., and if true, him rebuilding his marriage is a great reason to step away from this lifestyle...
 
steelhurt said:
Fans forget a couple important details about that last season of Bill Cowher at 8-8.
Ben had a terrible motorcycle accident that almost cost him his life.
He suffered through an emergency appendectomy as well.
I’d say Ben was anything but 100% for that 2006 season and contributed greatly to the 8-8 season.
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Lol he had his jaw wired shut for a month then an appendectomy and tried to play before he had all his strength back... watch the first half of that season vs the second half... two different versions of Ben... I think it was his worse td to int ratio that year... he didnt have the strength to make throws he normally did and was softballing em
 
madinsomniac said:
Meh, it probably was the Noll situation... the Rooneys wanted him to clean house on the assistants and he stepped down rather than have them rebuild the staff...


Though that rumor about the girl is not debunked yet... my neighbors daughter claims to know her., and if true, him rebuilding his marriage is a great reason to step away from this lifestyle...
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A decent amount of accounts to be false. I have a good feeling it is true.
 
bigben said:
No coach in the history of the league had more talent on the same field. Hof QB #1 WR #1 Rb Heath Miller. All in their prime besides Miller. Harrison etc.
All that and Zero to show for.
That loss to Blake Bortles soured me on Tomlin for good.
Outside Brady Mahommes Gronk Kelce Hill and Moss. Belichik and Reid had hot garbage in comparison to the killer bees.
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Marv Levy and Bud Grant says “hold my beer”.
 
bigben said:
No coach in the history of the league had more talent on the same field. Hof QB #1 WR #1 Rb Heath Miller. All in their prime besides Miller. Harrison etc.
All that and Zero to show for.
That loss to Blake Bortles soured me on Tomlin for good.
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Agreed, the loss to Bortles should have spelled the end, especially since Tomlin was telling Dungy before the Jags game that they were looking forward to the rematch with New England. The whole team lacked focus and intensity that game.
 
bigben said:
Nope
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Yep.

Bud Grant three SB losses in four years with Fran Tarkenton, Chuck Foreman, J. Gilliam and later Sammy White, Amhad Rachad. Plus that monster defense, multiple All-Pros and Pro Bowlers (when it meant something)

Marv Levy - four straight SB losses. All with Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, James Lofton, Plus a defense with perennials All-Pros/ Pro Bowlers Bruce Smith, Cornelius Bennett, Darryl Talley.

Note both coaches had Gold Jackets. Tomlin will have his.

Yeah the 2017 JAX was a pisser, but any given Sunday. Ben throwing near 60 passes was not expected or even warranted.

If you wanted Tomlin gone be prepared to see some even worse mediocrity before it gets better. You can’t have it both ways. Noll went through it Cowher as well.
 
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Ike Kelly said:
Yep.

Bud Grant three SB losses in four years with Fran Tarkenton, Chuck Foreman, J. Gilliam and later Sammy White, Amhad Rachad. Plus that monster defense, multiple All-Pros and Pro Bowlers (when it meant something)

Marv Levy - four straight SB losses. All with Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, James Lofton, Plus a defense with perennials All-Pros/ Pro Bowlers Bruce Smith, Cornelius Bennett, Darryl Talley.

Note both coaches had Gold Jackets. Tomlin will have his.

Yeah the 2017 JAX was a pisser, but any given Sunday. Ben throwing near 60 passes was not expected or even warranted.

If you wanted Tomlin gone be prepared to see some even worse mediocrity before it gets better. You can’t have it both ways. Noll went through it Cowher as well.
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Always a possibility Ike. Always … and there is a possibility that a new hire with a beautiful mind might squeeze out a playoff victory sooner than later. And from what we seen from the last decade that would be an improvement. 😉
 
slashsteel said:
Always a possibility Ike. Always … and there is a possibility that a new hire with a beautiful mind might squeeze out a playoff victory sooner than later. And from what we seen from the last decade that would be an improvement. 😉
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Very true Slash, I agree. However, I have no pulse for any drastic change now. McCarthy hire seems counter productive. Seeing who the coordinators will be a factor. Heir apparent? Or they think they have something next year if AR comes back. I’m not sold.
 
Ike Kelly said:
Very true Slash, I agree. However, I have no pulse for any drastic change now. McCarthy hire seems counter productive. Seeing who the coordinators will be a factor. Heir apparent? Or they think they have something next year if AR comes back. I’m not sold.
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I was wishful thinking now I see a storm has came upon us. Dark days ahead….
 
Ike Kelly said:
Yep.

Bud Grant three SB losses in four years with Fran Tarkenton, Chuck Foreman, J. Gilliam and later Sammy White, Amhad Rachad. Plus that monster defense, multiple All-Pros and Pro Bowlers (when it meant something)

Marv Levy - four straight SB losses. All with Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, James Lofton, Plus a defense with perennials All-Pros/ Pro Bowlers Bruce Smith, Cornelius Bennett, Darryl Talley.

Note both coaches had Gold Jackets. Tomlin will have his.

Yeah the 2017 JAX was a pisser, but any given Sunday. Ben throwing near 60 passes was not expected or even warranted.

If you wanted Tomlin gone be prepared to see some even worse mediocrity before it gets better. You can’t have it both ways. Noll went through it Cowher as well.
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Show me stats that put any of those guys close to Brown and Bell on the same field
 
bigben said:
Show me stats that put any of those guys close to Brown and Bell on the same field
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You serious?

Contextually, Minnesota’s era was completely different football. LeVeon and AB would have been tremendously athletic, but massively killed by the defenses at that time. Do your research before you respond. The rules then would have them clocked every play.

Kelly, Thomas, and Reed were all “in their prime”, played together and were league leaders. Not to mention they ALL wear Gold Jackets. Ben will be a first ballot for the HOF, AB won’t and LeVeon won’t get in.

Why obfuscate your true intent? You want to compare statistics of players to validate your disdain of Tomlin. It doesn’t matter anymore, you got your wish and he’s gone. Take a breather, you are going to need it when Tomlin gets his gold jacket and you start beating on the long dead horse..
 
slashsteel said:
I was wishful thinking now I see a storm has came upon us. Dark days ahead….
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Come on Slash, don’t retreat the fandom. Remember Winter Storm Fawn “Leibowitz thought Otter was cute!” She was going to make a pot for him 😜
 
Ike Kelly said:
Come on Slash, don’t retreat the fandom. Remember Winter Storm Fawn “Leibowitz thought Otter was cute!” She was going to make a pot for him 😜
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Oh a movie reference in the house! You animal.

I just want our team to get with the times. Get out of their comfort zone and actually do interviews face to face with bright young talent. They cheated us out of that and just targeted Mike from the get go.

We needed a rebuild and got a oh maybe this guy can squeeze out a playoff game while I line my pocket with money.

You had a Shula, a Klint, a Nate that you didn’t even sit down with they could have impressed.

Look at what Chicago did. That is the type of young mind we need.

Instead you give us a coach that won’t bring new innovative thoughts and schematics.

I can take failure if they are really trying. That half *** approach they did wasn’t inspiring. Not even a little bit.
 
slashsteel said:
Oh a movie reference in the house! You animal.

I just want our team to get with the times. Get out of their comfort zone and actually do interviews face to face with bright young talent. They cheated us out of that and just targeted Mike from the get go.

We needed a rebuild and got a oh maybe this guy can squeeze out a playoff game while I line my pocket with money.

You had a Shula, a Klint, a Nate that you didn’t even sit down with they could have impressed.

Look at what Chicago did. That is the type of young mind we need.

Instead you give us a coach that won’t bring new innovative thoughts and schematics.

I can take failure if they are really trying. That half *** approach they did wasn’t inspiring. Not even a little bit.
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Rooney chases comfort. Given the fact McCarthy is a native of Pittsburgh, Art played it safe
 
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