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Kahn vs. Colbert

WindyCitySteel

WindyCitySteel

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I'm seeing a lot of tweets about how bad Kevin Colbert did his last 4 years in Pittsburgh and how great Kahn is doing at drafting. This vexes me because it's such an oversimplification of the draft process, which involves scouts, coaches, GMs, even the owners. Heck, even the players -- I have no doubt Ben had input into the draft in his later years. Brady and Manning likely did as well.

I also have no doubt that Colbert was more involved than Kahn is in player eval. Kahn isn't an X's and O's football guy. But I don't believe for a minute that Colbert or any GM operates unilaterally in assembling a roster, which is what these tweets imply, as if everyone else sits around waiting for the roster to be handed down from on high.

In the age of analytics regarding play on the field, I wish this kind of nuance was extended to roster building. On some teams, GMs probably have more control than on others, where coaches and the owner (Dallas) have more. But I really wish this narrative would end.

/end rant
 
WindyCitySteel said:
I'm seeing a lot of tweets about how bad Kevin Colbert did his last 4 years in Pittsburgh and how great Kahn is doing at drafting. This vexes me because it's such an oversimplification of the draft process, which involves scouts, coaches, GMs, even the owners. Heck, even the players -- I have no doubt Ben had input into the draft in his later years. Brady and Manning likely did as well.

I also have no doubt that Colbert was more involved than Kahn is in player eval. Kahn isn't an X's and O's football guy. But I don't believe for a minute that Colbert or any GM operates unilaterally in assembling a roster, which is what these tweets imply, as if everyone else sits around waiting for the roster to be handed down from on high.

In the age of analytics regarding play on the field, I wish this kind of nuance was extended to roster building. On some teams, GMs probably have more control than on others, where coaches and the owner (Dallas) have more. But I really wish this narrative would end.

/end rant
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The GM has the title so they'll get the criticism while we all know the HC has a lot of influence. I doubt Ben was in the room pounding for Kendrick Green to be his center. I just don't see him having much, if any, input on the draft. Also, those last 4 year's of drafts deserve every bit of criticism they get.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
we need a Steeler nation exclusive interview with mark bruener. Scout. Ask the hard questions.
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Mark… so how many more free agents would have come aboard if the team just had more shitters?
 
Coryea said:
Let me know when Kahn drafts a HOF player.
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Kinda unfair considering this will be his 4th draft coming up as FULL GM.
So three drafts under his belt, ALL with an absolute RETARD as a head coach, who continually thought he was smarter than all else on the planet and moved players to nonsensical positions they had no business playing, and playcalling that undermined their true talents.
I'll reserve judgement until more variables have changed and there's enough indication of the true source.
( Spoiler Alert! The first true finger point is reserved for Art II : The Lawyer Strikes Gold! Dummy McAlergicToMiddleOfField has already been removed from the equation ).
 
Andy sets the draft board not Kahn. Kahn is a numbers guy, a Capologist but not a true GM.
Again I go back to the poor leadership from the top and that is the one and only Art II.
This guy has been in over his head from day one and the franchise continues to wallow in mediocrity.
A smart owner would insert Andy as the GM and move Kahn into another position. My fear is that we will lose Weidel next season and it will all fall on Kahn.
 
Coryea said:
Let me know when Kahn drafts a HOF player.
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Khan is a huge upgrade over Colbert when considering the final part of his career. I also think Khan's done pretty well drafting--player development, eh. My biggest critique of Khan is I'm never sure what type of team the Steelers are trying to build. They draft like they want to be physical in the trenches, but the play style doesn't match. Maybe it's because the vision was so clear with Cowher or other modern, successfull coaches. I don't know what the Steelers are trying to be on the field.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
Khan is a huge upgrade over Colbert when considering the final part of his career. I also think Khan's done pretty well drafting--player development, eh. My biggest critique of Khan is I'm never sure what type of team the Steelers are trying to build. They draft like they want to be physical in the trenches, but the play style doesn't match. Maybe it's because the vision was so clear with Cowher or other modern, successfull coaches. I don't know what the Steelers are trying to be on the field.
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Yeah, again, he's not drafting or building a roster and certainly not developing players. He's a deal-maker. Colbert was part of a collaborative effort, too, but probably more involved in football decisions.
 
WindyCitySteel said:
Yeah, again, he's not drafting or building a roster and certainly not developing players. He's a deal-maker. Colbert was part of a collaborative effort, too, but probably more involved in football decisions.
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If the team fails and the Steelers draft a bunch of busts over the next three years, who loses their job: the GM or the assistant GM?

We all know it's a collaborative effort, but the guy with the GM title will get the credit and the criticism.
 
fedderone said:
Kinda unfair considering this will be his 4th draft coming up as FULL GM.
So three drafts under his belt, ALL with an absolute RETARD as a head coach, who continually thought he was smarter than all else on the planet and moved players to nonsensical positions they had no business playing, and playcalling that undermined their true talents.
I'll reserve judgement until more variables have changed and there's enough indication of the true source.
( Spoiler Alert! The first true finger point is reserved for Art II : The Lawyer Strikes Gold! Dummy McAlergicToMiddleOfField has already been removed from the equation ).
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The same could be said for Colbert, he was with Tomlin as well, this is just another sign that the longer this organization was run with Tomlin at HC, the worst it got across the board, drafting is just another area that Tomlin brough down.
 
DesertSteel said:
Some guys were good in their era, but when the era changed, they didn't evolve. That was Colbert, and in a greater sense, the entire Steelers organization.
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This! Thank you for pointing this out. Colbert, Tomlin, and Art II are all stuck in 2008 NFL and hopefully the administration can overcome Art's lack of vision and balls. The new Mike is a Yinzer and understands the current NFL landscape, so I'm hoping he sets a Steeler's culture and brings a current NFL mindset to the field of play. God has this been an awful desert of **** football.
 
DesertSteel said:
Some guys were good in their era, but when the era changed, they didn't evolve. That was Colbert, and in a greater sense, the entire Steelers organization.
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The rules changed and effectively killed violent football. I think it's a God awful product and it's not going to get any better.

So,yeah better change with the times or change your rules of engagement. Which won't happen considering the hundreds of millions of dollars invested into players.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
Khan is a huge upgrade over Colbert when considering the final part of his career. I also think Khan's done pretty well drafting--player development, eh. My biggest critique of Khan is I'm never sure what type of team the Steelers are trying to build. They draft like they want to be physical in the trenches, but the play style doesn't match. Maybe it's because the vision was so clear with Cowher or other modern, successfull coaches. I don't know what the Steelers are trying to be on the field.
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Hopefully that sense changes with MM at the helm.

Mike Tomlin and his pre-school scheme put a lot of players and coaches under the line.

A year under MM may have things zeroed in much better in prospective and direction.




Salute the nation
 
steelhurt said:
Andy sets the draft board not Kahn. Kahn is a numbers guy, a Capologist but not a true GM.
Again I go back to the poor leadership from the top and that is the one and only Art II.
This guy has been in over his head from day one and the franchise continues to wallow in mediocrity.
A smart owner would insert Andy as the GM and move Kahn into another position. My fear is that we will lose Weidel next season and it will all fall on Kahn.
Click to expand...



Maybe with a little luck, the Art2steps down as well.




Salute the nation
 
SteelerFan448 said:
If the team fails and the Steelers draft a bunch of busts over the next three years, who loses their job: the GM or the assistant GM?
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The coach.

Ten head coaches got fired after (or during) the season. Three GMs got fired. The blame for failure almost always falls on the head coach.
 
Badcat said:
This! Thank you for pointing this out. Colbert, Tomlin, and Art II are all stuck in 2008 NFL and hopefully the administration can overcome Art's lack of vision and balls. The new Mike is a Yinzer and understands the current NFL landscape, so I'm hoping he sets a Steeler's culture and brings a current NFL mindset to the field of play. God has this been an awful desert of **** football.
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i want to understand what youre talking about.
understands current nfl landscape.
steelers culture
current nfl mindset..

I really dont understand the terminology or what they look like or how we lack.
 
I’ve said in the past that Cowher and Colbert worked well together for the time they had together.
Tomlin. And Colbert not as well and as the seasons came and went Tomlin gained more and more power in the decision making.
Tomlin was not a great talent evaluator and was behind many of these not so great drafts. The one that really sticks out for me when they chose Terrell Edmonds with their first round pick when clearly he was evaluated on most boards as a third round pick.
James Harrison even made mention of this in one of his blasts on Tomlin.
Never thought that Tomlin was very good with player evaluation and development.
 
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