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Degree of excitement…………….

diver said:
Back to my question. If the tree doesn’t produce good fruit, is the tree worth talking about? Those are some really good coaches on that list, but only one as a head coach won anything. Everyone else was mostly a failure as a head coach.
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Yes, because it usually means your team is actually good...unlike the Steelers for the past decade.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
Yes, because it usually means your team is actually good...unlike the Steelers for the past decade.
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Ok. Fair enough. I think it is more of an indication that the head coach is the driver of everything when assistants get hired and flame out. I think guys like Noll, Cowher, Lombardi or Shula were commanding figures and they set the tone. When their assistants moved on they showed they didn't have that. I respect your opinion on it though.
 
deljzc said:
Everyone knows I was gone for a long time because of Tomlin.

I'm back and very hopeful. My hope isn't quite the same as others (I admit I want a bad 2026 season), but it is hope.

I just have to belive McCarthy will finally express the truth that this franchise has to develop a QB to really get to the level we want to get to. And I am hopeful McCarthy has the chops to help get that done.

I mean McCarthy got 36+ TD's out of TWO seasons with Dak Prescott. With two different offensive coordinators.

Just watching different SCHEMES of football will be enjoyable to me this year even if we hopefully lose more than we win. So all the X's and O's this year is what I will be watching with a lot of interest. Wins and building the franchse can come later.
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Routes were horrible since Tomlin brought his Offensive muppets, I mean coordinators.
 
diver said:
Ok. Fair enough. I think it is more of an indication that the head coach is the driver of everything when assistants get hired and flame out. I think guys like Noll, Cowher, Lombardi or Shula were commanding figures and they set the tone. When their assistants moved on they showed they didn't have that. I respect your opinion on it though.
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That's a completely fair take, but generally, unless the team is great or an individual unit is great, teams aren't going after your assistants. There is definitely an "it factor" for head coaches.
 
diver said:
I just think coaching trees are overrated. It's not some defense of Tomlin in anyway. He's gone, it would be wonderful to stop talking about him. But back to coaching trees, any coach who gets hired has had mentors along the way, but has to be his own man. If they aren't, they aren't successful. I think that is what you see with the coaches who have been under Belechick. They tried to be too much like him, and it didn't work. The Steelers had a guy before Noll...Bill Austin, who coached under Lombardi. Apparently, according to the book, "Three Bricks Shy of a Load," he tried to be Lombardi, and it was a big failure.

So if having to be your own man is a truth, which it seems to be, isn't where the coach came from somewhat diminished in importance?
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There's nothing wrong with emulating successful people, to a certain degree. Being your own man is important, but the kind of coach (or just the type of person in general) you eventually become is the result of many factors, including properly applying what you learn from your superiors along the way. The problem with Tomlin is that he really didn't offer very much to teach those he chose to work for him.
 
topseed said:
There's nothing wrong with emulating successful people, to a certain degree. Being your own man is important, but the kind of coach (or just the type of person in general) you eventually become is the result of many factors, including properly applying what you learn from your superiors along the way. The problem with Tomlin is that he really didn't offer very much to teach those he chose to work for him.
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That, and he chose under qualified people, allowing them a very limited amount of freedom of options. It was just bad leadership.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
That's a completely fair take, but generally, unless the team is great or an individual unit is great, teams aren't going after your assistants. There is definitely an "it factor" for head coaches.
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Firmly agree here, but would like to add that the coaching “It Factor” can be defined differently by each individual.

I see both Noll & Cowher having that “It Factor” where as Tomlin not having “It” due to his play off history dry spell.

Some will argue the Non-Losing Season record which may be legitimate argument, but the post season is where the “It Factor” becomes more adherent to the discussion.

Take the argument out of “it was the previous coach’s players” for all three coaches and you will see why I say two had “It” and one did not. Look at the time you feel they are coaching what you consider their team and forward. That will help you determine that “It Factor” we are talking about.

Look at scheme / use & developement of players / drafting / sub-coaching / ect. All combine in that “It” determination.

My $4.37 opinion worth more than $.02s due to inflation.!!!



Salute the nation
 
Djfan said:
That, and he chose under qualified people, allowing them a very limited amount of freedom of options. It was just bad leadership.
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He kept some, way past their “use by” date.




Salute the nation
 
topseed said:
There's nothing wrong with emulating successful people, to a certain degree. Being your own man is important, but the kind of coach (or just the type of person in general) you eventually become is the result of many factors, including properly applying what you learn from your superiors along the way. The problem with Tomlin is that he really didn't offer very much to teach those he chose to work for him.
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Good points. I do think that what Tomlin had he really could not teach someone else. Tomlin's strength, from what his players have said over the years, was his ability to relate to them. It seems a person either has that or he doesn't. One of the problems with Tomlin is he seemed to think that was the most important thing.
 
diver said:
Good points. I do think that what Tomlin had he really could not teach someone else. Tomlin's strength, from what his players have said over the years, was his ability to relate to them. It seems a person either has that or he doesn't. One of the problems with Tomlin is he seemed to think that was the most important thing.
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Our very own Ted Lasso
 
NYSteel said:
You want to talk coaching tree?

Bill Cowher had 9 coaches who worked on his staffs that went on to become head coaches.

Bruce Arians, Marvin Lewis, Ken Whisenhunt, Jim Haslett, Dom Capers, Chan Gailey, Mike Mularkey, Dick LeBeau, and David Culley.
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Be careful talking that truth around these parts. There are some that will insist that level of success was the result of “cheating”. Apparently that’s easier to accept than our HC was a moron and our QB was a lot lazier than theirs.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
I read another transcript of MM talking about his assistants. When he says what good teachers they are I get mild 🪵. Finally maybe people who can help a player get better.
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The more this “camp” progresses, the more excited I’ve become.

I have HOPE for all this change to directly translate to the field of play,





Salute the nation
 
This has been the longest offseason for me ever. I swear it felt like 3 entire offseasons. Thank goodness we're finally closing in on practice game one.


I'm always optimistic to a degree past center this time of year until the real games start. Then the needle starts moving forward or back with what I see on tv each week.

Who ride?
 
Drink IRON City said:
For years Tomlin’s coaching tree was discussed and magnified. Many here said it didn’t matter, but also many here scrutinized it’s importance.

McCarthy is light years head in that category. If a coach has sought after staff, that means qaulity coaches. That should directly stride with team success.





Salute the nation
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Tomlin's megalomania was his downfall. No playoff success after ridding the team of qualified coordinators and hand-picking his yes men.
 
WindyCitySteel said:
Tomlin's megalomania was his downfall. No playoff success after ridding the team of qualified coordinators and hand-picking his yes men.
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It’s been said many a many times, and it holds true

“As Coach Cowher’s players and sub-coaches left, Tomlin’s teams went down hill as for winning significant games.”




Salute the nation
 
I am worried about not having any family members on the team for the 1st time in years.
 
" reaching bottom" , " banging sides,".......lyrics from rap tune.

Is rap a tune? Can you whistle its melody? Is there a melody?
 
diver said:
What does joining the conversation mean to you? Only agreement with your position?

I just think coaching trees are overrated. It's not some defense of Tomlin in anyway. He's gone, it would be wonderful to stop talking about him. But back to coaching trees, any coach who gets hired has had mentors along the way, but has to be his own man. If they aren't, they aren't successful. I think that is what you see with the coaches who have been under Belechick. They tried to be too much like him, and it didn't work. The Steelers had a guy before Noll...Bill Austin, who coached under Lombardi. Apparently, according to the book, "Three Bricks Shy of a Load," he tried to be Lombardi, and it was a big failure.

So if having to be your own man is a truth, which it seems to be, isn't where the coach came from somewhat diminished in importance?

Another reason I never really gave much care to coaching trees is when Holmgren got the Packers really good and they started beating the 49ers, do you think 49er fans felt better about a loss to the Packers because Holmgren was in the Walsh tree? Think about when a player leaves and comes back and torches their former team. It hasn't really happened to the Steelers too much that I can think of but it probably isn't fun for a fan of that team. I guess I'm not upset that some former assistant hasn't made it good with some other team.
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Vrabel took a second year QB to a 14-3 record, 3 straight playoff wins and the superbowl?
No Tomlin tree coach will ever accomplish anything remotely close to that.
 
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