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Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

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http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2014/08/dri-archer-shut-special-teams/
 
Vader said:
Your a liar. Here is what you posted:



But you didn't post what I was responding too. Ant and I were discussing two arguments that were going on at the time. Argument one was that some people used absolutes when talking about Archer (He would never make it) and others just talked about the football side of it (he lacked size, small catch radius etc..). I said that I never used absolutes. Which is why I said "I don't recall any poster saying that" (absolutes) but I remembered lots of people talking about his lack of size etc... Which is why I said "I know I didn't say it" referring to the absolutes NOT the size issues etc...

This entire thread I've talked about his size, height etc... That was one of my arguments against taking him along with his draft position. I've never said otherwise. Ant knew exactly what I meant because the discussion continued on those same lines. He also knew what my argument against taking him was and knew I wasn't saying that.
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You know what, I'll take your word for it. But you have to realize that when you have to write an explanation that long and that detailed to explain what it is you were attempting to say...
 
Badcat said:
But you have to realize that when you have to write an explanation that long and that detailed to explain what it is you were attempting to say...
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...that you should have accounted for the idiots who are just itching to misinterpret what you're saying, so they can act superior?
 
Pouncey was illegally downfield on the Archer play. Surprised it wasn't called. He was 5 yards downfield, blocking no one when the pass was made.

Still pretty impressive acceleration after the catch.
 
Idioteque said:
When was this? Quote?

I'm sincerely asking here. I didn't say it but maybe someone did.
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Hey welcome back buddy. What do we owe this pleasure of you gracing us with your presence?

As far as your question go back and read the thread buddy and then you wont have to wait. Even though you wait patiently as we all know.
 
antdrewjosh said:
Hey welcome back buddy. What do we owe this pleasure of you gracing us with your presence?

As far as your question go back and read the thread buddy and then you wont have to wait. Even though you wait patiently as we all know.
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I was just curious. Not calling you a liar; let's not piss our diddies. I just wondered if it had actually happened, and I had assumed that your statement had some form of support for it.
 
Idioteque said:
I was just curious. Not calling you a liar; let's not piss our diddies. I just wondered if it had actually happened, and I had assumed that your statement had some form of support for it.
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No, you're just curious. Satisfy your curiosity by just reading back most find this thread quite entertaining.
 
deljzc said:
Pouncey was illegally downfield on the Archer play. Surprised it wasn't called. He was 5 yards downfield, blocking no one when the pass was made.

Still pretty impressive acceleration after the catch.
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Interesting. I thought the illegal man downfield rule was 3 (maybe 4 yards) but seems to be the LoS. Is that right?
 
Yes its the LOS.. however the lineman can USUALLY get away with it if they are engaged with a defender,, and within 2 yrds.. of the LOS. I don't have the written rule.. but this is generally accepted.
 
Idioteque said:
I'm not the one who made the claim, so I'm not sure why the burden of proof would be on me.
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Because you want to know. You can either choose to take what Im saying at face value or read back thru the thread. Up to you.
 
Idioteque said:
When was this? Quote?

I'm sincerely asking here. I didn't say it but maybe someone did.
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this is probably what he is referring to.This was by Idiot by the way. Post 295. Paragraph 4 and I quote "THERE IS NO WAY HE CAN RETURN PUNTS IN THE NFL"

424 touches in five years (he was ineligible for 2011). Lookout for this guy! The NFL will probably take it easier on him than the MAC did. Most guys notice that football gets slower, easier, and less physical once they hit the NFL.

Some points to sum up the idiocy of this pick:

1. Archer isn't small. He isn't a scatback. He isn't Darren Sproles, DeSean Jackson, Willie Parker, or any other smallish NFL player. He's miniscule. He's smaller than Chris effing Rainey. As TMC has pointed out repeatedly, there have been zero successful RBs that weigh 173 ******* pounds. There have been zero successful NFL WRs his size, especially ones who were college RBs and have incredibly short arms and small hands. Being tiny is a huge issue, not only because it opens you up to more injury concerns (which Archer has constantly had), but also because..

2. Sorry to break this, but NFL receivers cannot simply "run past" NFL DBs. If that's how it worked, Olympian and Florida WR John Capel would have made some Pro Bowls, and Donald Driver probably wouldn't have caught 700 passes. DBs do not just watch the receiver run and try to run next to him. They don't stand in awe of the speed of the WR in front of them and just struggle to nip at their heels. They shove them at the LOS. They position themselves in the way of the receiver so as to cut off their route. When the ball comes, they get physical and control the receiver while swatting at the ball.

Consider this: Archer ran 40 yards in 4.26 in shorts with no defenders. Now add full padding, eleven NFL defenders, and a route that needs to be run. Now factor in that, after the snap, the QB typically releases the ball in less than 3 seconds, maybe 4 if it's a go route. Now factor in Archer's constant injuries and fumbling tendencies. Then explain exactly how Archer is going to just sprint to daylight, football in hand, while eleven NFL defenders bend over and suck air.

3. Where is he going to play? This isn't Madden; actual football involves things beyond the ballcarrier. You wanna put Archer in as third-down back? Good, let's have him pick up a blitzing Terrell Suggs in the open field. Want him in the slot? Sure, let's watch him fight off the jam from a 5'10 200# cornerback and use his body to shield him from the ball, then catch it and absorb the hit. Let's have him block downfield on screens and short throws. You want him to return kickoffs? There aren't that many anymore. Return punts? He's never done that and is an injury and fumble case; not sure I want him catching the ball with three sprinting defenders in his face, especially since he has no experience doing it.

Obviously, these are not options. He's not going to pick up the rush, and he's not going to block downfield. So when he's on the field, the defense knows he's going to get the ball. Kinda erases most or all of the speed advantage and limits our playbook. Now, we've spent a 3rd on Chris Rainey II.

All of the "explosiveness!" and "versatility!" and "open space!" being talked about is a moot point if a guy (a) can't get on the field due to fumbles and a lack of offensive ability, and (b) can't secure the ball. You guys keep seeing visions of Eric Metcalf and Darren Sproles in your head, but they are not comparable players. The closest comparison to Archer is absolutely Chris Rainey, who looked dead each time he was hit. Then he usually fumbled for good measure.

4. Archer's size isn't the only knock on him, by a long shot. Even at 5'10 190, he's a big question mark. He fumbles a ton. More than Chris Rainey. He's constantly injured. He was academically ineligible in 2011. He doesn't have a position; he was a part-time RB and gimmick slot WR in school. His only strength - returning kickoffs, not punts - is being rapidly phased out of the NFL; kickoffs will probably be gone within five years. There's no way he can return NFL punts.

5. There are ramifications to wasting this pick. I know we all say, "Well, we filled all our holes later in the draft, so we're fine risking that third!!" Why? Because we drafted some guys late? We took roughly the #15 OT late in the fifth round. We took roughly the #25 CB in the 5th as well. And we snagged a 7th-round NT that probably won't make the team. And that sews up our holes? Do you guys really think that we're now set at CB and OT and NT? I like Shaq Richardson as a late-round developmental CB, but what are the realistic odds he ever becomes a starting-caliber CB for us? 5%? 10%? If that? A third-round pick is immensely valuable, especially when you have holes throughout your depth chart.
 
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SCSteeler4life said:
this is probably what he is referring to.

Same debate when they drafted Chris Rainey. Same argument rehashed. He is a weapon. Weapon. Speed kills. Big plays. Special teams. Yada, yada, yada.

Here is what it is. Is Archer a RB? If he is, only 1 RB weighing under 180 has been quasi-successful in the NFL in the last decade and that was Dexter McCluster and he had one good year with 114 carries for 516 yards and 1 TD. That is it. So, if you are selling him as a RB, sorry, not buying. The history and statistics show he will fail. Long odds.

So, is Archer a receiver? A slot receiver? If so, why not go with a guy that has been a WR consistently in college that understands routes, defenses, body control, how to attack the ball in the air, and all the other things that WRs have done in college while Archer too end arounds. He has a great vertical jump, does not use it as a receiver. Small catch radius. TINY hands, under 9". Miniscule. Short arms. Poor route runner. Does not block. As a receiver, there are probably 20+ players more NFL ready with NFL bodies.

Is Archer a specialist? Well, he does not return punts, putrid at it. Kick returner only.

So, a team that needs help/depth at NT, DE, OLB, CB, WR, and the OL decides it is wise to spend a top 100 pick on a kick returner. Let that roll around in your head a minute.
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you are about 2700 posts late with your argument, not saying it is wrong but it's already been said here about 200 times
 
Litos said:
you are about 2700 posts late with your argument, not saying it is wrong but it's already been said here about 200 times
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Sorry I copied the wrong post. I edited my original post. I was replying to what Idiot asked, not trying to rehash the whole thread. I've been here the whole time and read every post. He said there is no way he can return punts in the NFL.
 
Thank you SC... I hope that satisfies your curiosity Idioteque. And you waited very patiently as always.
 
SCSteeler4life said:
this is probably what he is referring to.This was by Idiot by the way. Post 295. Paragraph 4 and I quote "THERE IS NO WAY HE CAN RETURN PUNTS IN THE NFL"

424 touches in five years (he was ineligible for 2011). Lookout for this guy! The NFL will probably take it easier on him than the MAC did. Most guys notice that football gets slower, easier, and less physical once they hit the NFL.

Some points to sum up the idiocy of this pick:

1. Archer isn't small. He isn't a scatback. He isn't Darren Sproles, DeSean Jackson, Willie Parker, or any other smallish NFL player. He's miniscule. He's smaller than Chris effing Rainey. As TMC has pointed out repeatedly, there have been zero successful RBs that weigh 173 ******* pounds. There have been zero successful NFL WRs his size, especially ones who were college RBs and have incredibly short arms and small hands. Being tiny is a huge issue, not only because it opens you up to more injury concerns (which Archer has constantly had), but also because..

2. Sorry to break this, but NFL receivers cannot simply "run past" NFL DBs. If that's how it worked, Olympian and Florida WR John Capel would have made some Pro Bowls, and Donald Driver probably wouldn't have caught 700 passes. DBs do not just watch the receiver run and try to run next to him. They don't stand in awe of the speed of the WR in front of them and just struggle to nip at their heels. They shove them at the LOS. They position themselves in the way of the receiver so as to cut off their route. When the ball comes, they get physical and control the receiver while swatting at the ball.

Consider this: Archer ran 40 yards in 4.26 in shorts with no defenders. Now add full padding, eleven NFL defenders, and a route that needs to be run. Now factor in that, after the snap, the QB typically releases the ball in less than 3 seconds, maybe 4 if it's a go route. Now factor in Archer's constant injuries and fumbling tendencies. Then explain exactly how Archer is going to just sprint to daylight, football in hand, while eleven NFL defenders bend over and suck air.

3. Where is he going to play? This isn't Madden; actual football involves things beyond the ballcarrier. You wanna put Archer in as third-down back? Good, let's have him pick up a blitzing Terrell Suggs in the open field. Want him in the slot? Sure, let's watch him fight off the jam from a 5'10 200# cornerback and use his body to shield him from the ball, then catch it and absorb the hit. Let's have him block downfield on screens and short throws. You want him to return kickoffs? There aren't that many anymore. Return punts? He's never done that and is an injury and fumble case; not sure I want him catching the ball with three sprinting defenders in his face, especially since he has no experience doing it.

Obviously, these are not options. He's not going to pick up the rush, and he's not going to block downfield. So when he's on the field, the defense knows he's going to get the ball. Kinda erases most or all of the speed advantage and limits our playbook. Now, we've spent a 3rd on Chris Rainey II.

All of the "explosiveness!" and "versatility!" and "open space!" being talked about is a moot point if a guy (a) can't get on the field due to fumbles and a lack of offensive ability, and (b) can't secure the ball. You guys keep seeing visions of Eric Metcalf and Darren Sproles in your head, but they are not comparable players. The closest comparison to Archer is absolutely Chris Rainey, who looked dead each time he was hit. Then he usually fumbled for good measure.

4. Archer's size isn't the only knock on him, by a long shot. Even at 5'10 190, he's a big question mark. He fumbles a ton. More than Chris Rainey. He's constantly injured. He was academically ineligible in 2011. He doesn't have a position; he was a part-time RB and gimmick slot WR in school. His only strength - returning kickoffs, not punts - is being rapidly phased out of the NFL; kickoffs will probably be gone within five years. There's no way he can return NFL punts.

5. There are ramifications to wasting this pick. I know we all say, "Well, we filled all our holes later in the draft, so we're fine risking that third!!" Why? Because we drafted some guys late? We took roughly the #15 OT late in the fifth round. We took roughly the #25 CB in the 5th as well. And we snagged a 7th-round NT that probably won't make the team. And that sews up our holes? Do you guys really think that we're now set at CB and OT and NT? I like Shaq Richardson as a late-round developmental CB, but what are the realistic odds he ever becomes a starting-caliber CB for us? 5%? 10%? If that? A third-round pick is immensely valuable, especially when you have holes throughout your depth chart.
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even though he asked for that... he will reply something along the lines of:
rid-of-stalkers.png


any comment made to him or about his most professional prognostications are only stalking him. Best to just leave him be so as to not allow him to falsely increase his self-worth.
 
Superman said:
even though he asked for that... he will reply something along the lines of:
rid-of-stalkers.png


any comment made to him or about his most professional prognostications are only stalking him. Best to just leave him be so as to not allow him to falsely increase his self-worth.
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Now now Supe lets be nice.. I mean after all the guy was gracious enough to grace us with his presence on this ghost town of a board today.
 
antdrewjosh said:
Now now Supe lets be nice.. I mean after all the guy was gracious enough to grace us with his presence on this ghost town of a board today.
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that is true. why, other boards are just JUMPING BUSY in the off-season and this is the ONLY board on the internet that has a down turn of postings from post-draft to first preseason game.
 
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