So if they gave up one first down and then punted the Steelers would have gotten the ball with a chance to TIE instead of being down 10. Onside kicks are the lowest percentage play in football, we haven;t converted one in 11 YEARS, Tomlin again **** the bed in the clutch, its what he does .
Onside kick?
- Thread starter Coach
- Start date
So if they gave up one first down and then punted the Steelers would have gotten the ball with a chance to TIE instead of being down 10. Onside kicks are the lowest percentage play in football, we haven;t converted one in 11 YEARS, Tomlin again **** the bed in the clutch, its what he does .
Pass interference calls have been rare this post season. I'd like to know the numbers compared to the regular season.
Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
UKSteelerFan
Registered
I really don't get the basic game planning behind this decision.
High percentage chance that they'll have possession of the ball near or on the half way line, start their drive from there, immediate field goal range with little to no effort and any error from us costs us dearly.
Low percentage chance we win the ball back on the half way line, needing 7 or 8 points, we have half the field to drive with little time.
Or, we kick long, pin them back in their own 40yd zone, try for fumbles on every tackle, wait for the punt, put Juju behind it and start our drive from their 45 / 40 yd line which is one big throw for Ben.
I just don't get the mindset behind such a risky play which % wise, stacks everything in the oppositions' favour.
High percentage chance that they'll have possession of the ball near or on the half way line, start their drive from there, immediate field goal range with little to no effort and any error from us costs us dearly.
Low percentage chance we win the ball back on the half way line, needing 7 or 8 points, we have half the field to drive with little time.
Or, we kick long, pin them back in their own 40yd zone, try for fumbles on every tackle, wait for the punt, put Juju behind it and start our drive from their 45 / 40 yd line which is one big throw for Ben.
I just don't get the mindset behind such a risky play which % wise, stacks everything in the oppositions' favour.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 21,866
- Reaction score
- 24,860
- Points
- 113
******* stupid. I guess so he could share in the blame of epic failure.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2014
- Messages
- 13,175
- Reaction score
- 10,817
- Points
- 113
The on side kick gives you 2 chances to get the ball back if it is executed correctly. If the OS kick goes the correct distance and fails we would still have a chance to stop them on 3 plays and force a punt. The OS kick hitting our own player after going only 5 yards was the issue. Add in the penalty at the spot of the touch. The percentages actually increased for us getting the ball by doing the on side kick. The kicker just needs to execute it correctly whether we recover it or not.
When was the last time the Steelers were successful with an onside kick? How many times they had tried them since without success?
Play the bloody percentages.................
UKSteelerFan
Registered
If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the commentators said it'd been 14 attempts since we'd successfully recovered an onside kick, so now it's 15. Not exactly a high percentage likelihood of success.
The mindset is this.....
Excluding the end of half drive, up to the onside attempt, the Jaguars had the ball for 9 series, and they scored on 6 of them. ZERO of those ten drives ended with a three and out. This means every time Jacksonville got the ball they got at least 1 first down.
The onside kick attempt was an opportunity to get the ball without giving up more points or losing time.
There was no reason to have confidence in the defense. None. No gut feeling, no statistical feeling, not if Styx was there to play renegade on the field with terrible towels adorning their instruments.
Now , the execution of the play was horrible. We did get our first three and out, and we did mismanage time outs. But going into that kick off the theory that we could get the ball was better than watching our defense attempt it.
Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
And that mindset fails to take into account that the Jags would be running the ball on all three downs, right up the middle. There is no way on God's green earth that they try and throw the ball to clinch the game with Blake Bortles. Jacksonville predictably ran it three times, not deviating more than a yard straight ahead from the right hashmark, and the Steelers somehow managed to stop them, didn't they? Do you think they're going for it on 4th-and-1 from their own 34? No, they're punting it back to the Steelers.
There is no mindset that justifies gambling an entire season on an onside kick (by a kicker who has demonstrated no proficiency in this area whatsoever) to a team who knows it's coming, instead of stopping three simple running plays (which your own team knows are coming) and giving the ball back to your offense that's already put 35 points on the board with plenty of time left.
None.
I will agree to disagree.
As for my mindset they'd be running the ball all 3 downs. That was pretty much everyone's mindset for the game plan in general, and for the most part, that exactly what they did.
After they got the first pick deep in Steeler territory up 7-0, I'm pretty sure everyone was expecting a conservative run, making sure they got 3 points at least out of that field position, so when they did run on first and ten I wasn't surprised. Watching the play go for a 17 yard td did.
As for the kick
If the execution did not fail with a penalty, they are punting back to us as well instead of getting the fg.
As for failing in execution, our pro bowl kicker failed in that attempt. Our defense did it all day. They deserved no benefit of the doubt.
Yeah they got the last stop, with all the advantages you spoke of and stopped them by half a yard at best. Something that a single bad spot on any of those plays could've wiped out.
To speak of Predictability, well predictability saw fournette diving over the top on 4-1 on the opening drive, just like the first meeting. Predictability didn't stop that, it was execution.
Bottom line, we have 7.5 months to wait for another meaningful game.
It sucks. It was a desperate time we took a desperate measure, I can live with it.
Hopefully we will all be over this one soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
As for my mindset they'd be running the ball all 3 downs. That was pretty much everyone's mindset for the game plan in general, and for the most part, that exactly what they did.
After they got the first pick deep in Steeler territory up 7-0, I'm pretty sure everyone was expecting a conservative run, making sure they got 3 points at least out of that field position, so when they did run on first and ten I wasn't surprised. Watching the play go for a 17 yard td did.
As for the kick
If the execution did not fail with a penalty, they are punting back to us as well instead of getting the fg.
As for failing in execution, our pro bowl kicker failed in that attempt. Our defense did it all day. They deserved no benefit of the doubt.
Yeah they got the last stop, with all the advantages you spoke of and stopped them by half a yard at best. Something that a single bad spot on any of those plays could've wiped out.
To speak of Predictability, well predictability saw fournette diving over the top on 4-1 on the opening drive, just like the first meeting. Predictability didn't stop that, it was execution.
Bottom line, we have 7.5 months to wait for another meaningful game.
It sucks. It was a desperate time we took a desperate measure, I can live with it.
Hopefully we will all be over this one soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
The whole process should be about extending the game. The scoreboard is not you enemy until there are 0:00 on the clock.. . the clock is your enemy at that point of the game trailing. You kick through the damn end zone hopefully ....hopefully no return at all (which conserves all possible seconds on the clock) , hopefully you get the 3 and out ...but you have done your best to extend the game..Onside kick if you recover or not wastes valuable time and again time is the enemy at that point of the game. That is my biggest problem with the onside kick .
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 34,275
- Reaction score
- 37,876
- Points
- 113
- Location
- between $2 short & ten buck two
What about lackadazical players taking valuable time by slowly lining up for next play. PURE and simple, when the head coach shows no urgency the players will follow suit regardless of how much time and how bigt an enemy that time is.
I totally get what you are saying and fully agree but the players need to be on that page also and they didn;t seem to exemplify that urgency.
Salute the nation
To be fair Butler's Swiss cheese D did have a couple three and outs. With the game on the line, some clock & TO's to work with and a HOF QB standing on the sidelines who just gashed the #1 league Passing D for 5 TD's and nearly 500 yards?
31 other NFL HEAD Coaches are kicking it away. That "coaching from the gut" horse ka ka did nothing but take away any chance of tying the game and told his players he has no confidence in them. WTF wants to play for a coach like that?
Those 4th Down TD's weren't "gifts".
They were earned by talented playmakers and an indication of just how lethal the Steeler Offense had developed. Bryant beat his one on one and Ben dropped the perfect pass. Brown was held the entire time into the end zone and fought off the defender to make a highlight catch. You know, the Jags defender who did not give up a TD all season? Now we know why.
There were other blatant holding non calls (see JJSC 4th &1) hold not called that killed a drive. It was apparent the calls weren't going to come, the receivers made plays not "gifts".
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2014
- Messages
- 2,921
- Reaction score
- 831
- Points
- 113
The onside kicks that seem to work are those that can bounce over the first line of receivers and end up 20
yards downfield where there is a scramble for the ball. Don't know if Boz can make that kick, but he
has a lot of time to practice it. You don't get a field goal attempt with that. If the onside kick was a better effort
the call wouldn't have taken as much heat.
yards downfield where there is a scramble for the ball. Don't know if Boz can make that kick, but he
has a lot of time to practice it. You don't get a field goal attempt with that. If the onside kick was a better effort
the call wouldn't have taken as much heat.
I looked at the drive chart. When were the couple of the 3 and outs?
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 9,583
- Reaction score
- 5,866
- Points
- 113
Also, most of the ones that don't go 10 yards don't work.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2014
- Messages
- 1,861
- Reaction score
- 1,070
- Points
- 113
They were 4 and outs. That's what was frustrating about the O, the few times the D did get them the ball, the O got stoned. It was especially painful after the blocked punt, you gotta score there. The whole game was such a cluster ****.
So the Jags scored on every possession?
Ok, my bad, how many Jags drives ended with a punt?
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 1,428
- Reaction score
- 907
- Points
- 113
In that situation had Tomlin kicked deep the odds of a three and out are much higher than at other points in the game, and certainly higher than recovering an onside kick. You know they have to run on 1st and likely on 2nd down. Perhaps the Jags throw on 3rd down but we've seen in many of our close games the defense tighten up late like Flacco's sack and fumble on the last play of that game, plus the advantage of the effect the added crowd noise has on the opposing QB. But lets say kicking deep didn't work, at least you put the game in the players hands and gave them a chance. With an onside kick your giving your players almost no chance. So except for a lucky fluke onside kick recovery, Tomlin basically took the game out of the players hands.
Last edited:
Wait...you're comparing an off-tackle first down run less than ten minutes into the game to a run-out-the-clock situation? I'm pretty sure Bortles was having success with the play-action pass on their first drive, and those two sequences have exactly zero correlation.
There is no guarantee the "pro bowl kicker" was going to kick the ball at least ten yards and put Jacksonville out of field goal range. Boswell's proven to be inept in the onside kick department, and it showed.Steelerfreak said:
Yes, yes the defense did stop the Jags when they had to at the end, didn't they? Despite all of your doom-and-gloom and bullshit first quarter comparisons.
Steelerfreak said:
It does suck, and despite your weak efforts, there remains no excuse for it. By a half yard or otherwise, Ben is getting the ball back with almost two minutes left in the game if Tomlin just kicks it off. THAT is the bottom line.