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MNF-Replay with Hoot

Damn this is slow going, but I am enjoying it. If I do this more often, I will need to work on my video controls. NFL Replay is very limited. May need to record then use a tool with a better "toggle" control. anyway, having fun and beer is cold and burrito is hot. Second and 7, KC on their own 41, First quarter still

Pro left by KC. Steelers in a two DL front with Tyler M on the line and Barron handling the "MLB".
----------------------------------$
---------------------------M-----------------C
--C--------Nk----W--T--N--B-----S
---X----------------T-G-C-G-T-U
-------------Z------------------------Y
-
---------------------------1-2

If I didn't mention before, offensive 1 is QB and 2 is Tailback.
Nk is the Nickle DB. I will come up with a better designation later. It is hilton over Z.
M is Barron with W (dupree) and S (Watt) handlign the edge.

Now, this play is kinda insteresting. My diagram is a little misleading. The gap between our B (Tyler) and S (TJ) is pretty wide. Going back to what I said above, TJ has run force (outside contain) and Tyler would have anchor. Tyler gets caught up in the wash near the line and RB is heading for a first down, however, while C (burns) makes the stop, Edmunds ($) punches the ball out for fumble and we get the recovery.

So fail on the play to Tyler even though it was a positive outcome for Steelers. Burns also comes up to make a play but he misses Hyde onthe tackle. If Edmunds doesn't make that play, Burns going to get a lot more negative press.
 
@blitz - yep. i gotta go back to my old way of doing it. Draw it on paper, transpose to Computer. much more efficient. Been a few years. No way I get through this game tonight on this workflow, but I will work it out for regular season (and that will be time permitting). This method is way too much typing and explanation. WHatever, I still go beer and homemade chocolate chip cookies.

Next play is 1st and 10 steelers. MR to 11 (Moncrief).

---------X-T-G-C-G--T----------------------Y
---Z-----------------------U
------------------1-2

X is Grimble and U is Vance. Y is Moncrief. everything works perfect including Chucky with nice blockign and Conner slipping through the line to settle under the backers as the outlet. Moncreif open for the catch but he gets dislodged from the ball. I mean, D made a good play but you gotta hang onto that ****.
 
not going to draw the next play. Bottom line is Hargrave gets pressure up the middle and looks to cause Mahomes to thorw a bit short on the seam pass to 11. Burns is trailing the reciever and no over the otp help. If Mahones can lead the receiver, it appears to be six. Credit Hargrave with this stop...pressure matters.
 
Sorry - that was Hennne, not Mahomes on the last.
Next play is a quick slant the offensive Left - Completion but Nelson plays it right. Keeps it in front of him and makes the tackle. WCO was built on that type of pass - hard to stop.
 
Next play is interesting from the Defensive perspective. TJ is outside with hand down as normal. he gets upfield but pauses to let let Tuitt pass him and stunts inside a little bit. This closes running lanes for the QB. What is very cool is Baron "stacks" on Dupree over on the defensive Right. By stacks, I mean he moves over right behind Bud so the two are in a line if you will.
Running back release to that side and Barron picks up coverage. Cam stunts around Bud like they did earlier. OT kicks out to pick up Cam on the game (stunt) and Dupree is able to push inside for the sack on Henne.

Away from the play - and part of why this takes so long, i looked at the coverage. Burns and Safety handle the receiver threat correctly and shut down a future exploit by the OC. The game within the game.

Ensuing Punt - 18 nearly fumbles the kick return. Hangs on, but dude....you can't do that.
 
So Steelesr 1st and ten from their own 4 (roughly). This next play is beautiful but I reckon most fans miss the beauty. Sorry, gotta do my thing here....

x----------------T-G-C-G-T-U
-------------H---------1----------------------------Y
-
-
------------------------2

Basic Ace formation. H is Vance and he is in motion from right to left at the snap. Ball is on the Right has and it is a basic sweep to that side (short side of the field). Conner's sweep goes for about 6 or 7 yards. Nice play, but what most people miss is this. Xavier and RT block down (that means slanting from right to left). H (vance) and LG (Foster) pull from left to right to lead the play. This down block with pull action seals the running lane for Conner to get a solid gain and, more importantly, some relief from being backed up on the goal line. Even if the rest of the series goes bad, the punter would now have room to work.
 
basically the same play follows, but this time they flip the formation and the H motion and Conner is on sweep to the right this time. First down.Same play, just mirror image.

First down.

Fieler on the false start next play.
 
Next play is a little gut run in which Conner tries to cut back a little bit. Not much room but he gets positive yards out of a train wreck up front. Nothing to write home about. OL isn't great, doesn't suck. Conner makes a little out of nothing. Seems like a good time to say FU bell. How you enjoying your 17M? What? You didn't get 17? Damn. Sucks for you.
 
****! ****! Fuckity **** **** ****!!!!

Yea, I saw it live but I am more pissed on replay. listen, I am trying to watch and rewatch plays for blocking, routes, blitz pickup, QB play, etc, etc....nothing to say here but Grimble, dude! You have to catch that! ****! MR walks away from that play with an INC on his stats but he hit the Te in the hands. That should be a REC and 10-20 yards for the completion for MR.

For hte playbook wonks:


------------------U-T-G-C-G-T--------Y
---------------H----------------------------Z
-------------------------2-1

H is Vance. U is Xavier. ball is on the left hash where Y and Z clear out the side with longer routes. Vance (H) comes across the field on the short route and U (X) does the same cross but on the medium route. Both Vance and Grimble are open. MR goes to Grimble who drops it. People talk about trust....it was the right throw decision by MR, but if the trus isn't there, the QB goes to Vance on the short route. SOrry, I like Grimbles motor over the years, but too inconsistent. We will miss JJ.
 
next play clangs of JuJu's hands. I'd say he needs to catch that (and he does), but damn if he wasn't pulling the CB along like a pimp pulling a HO before payday. Shoulda been PI.

Ensuing Punt....31 misses an open field tackle. Layne gotta make that. Still, return man tries to go across field (and backwards) in an effort to reverse field and catch the opposite edge. He gets beat by a gorgeous open field tackle. Guesses? Anyone?

Snell. Damn nice open field tackle. This is what coaches mean with ST contributions. Fans overlook **** like this, but coaches don't miss it.
 
Not going to diagram plays at this point. Late and going too slow. Dangerfield makes a nice tackle on a short pitch and catch on KC first and ten. Watt forced a fast throw.

Have I mentioned that Watt is a beast?
 
next play is a little 3 hole gut run by KC. First sighting of U. Grant and Dangerfield is once again active on the play. Dangefield flying to the ball...easy to see why coaches like him. active. KC short of first down. They get a Delay of Game next so instead of 3rd and 1 its 3rd and 6.

Next play is an easy catch to the offensive left for a first down. Before the play, Davis and Tyler M are talking....I assume coverage communications. Davis takes the underneath zone and Tyler the deeper route. Tyler just flat beat. He is lined up inside and receiver makes a quick outside move. Tyler has no chance and is trailing to make tackle.
 
to wrap the first q, KC gets an illegal motion on an off tackle run
next play, incomplete but U. Grant is beat in coverage. Henne in. Mahomes likely makes that throw for a big gain. U-Grant...I like him, but this is the kind of thing fans dont' see. He coulda been burned here.
 
thats it for the first Q. I said I had no idea where this would go or where it was going. I am pretty pie-eyed and tired (8 beers and 2am, not shocking). Hopefully I can add to this later in the week but I gotta get some Zs now.

Hope y'all enjoyed it for what is worth. Cant promise future events like this...need to change the workflow to something more efficient and less ad hoc. anyway, goodnight cool peeps. If you aren't cool, why are you even reading? I kicked you out in the OP (and that includes me, so, g'night)
 
Hoot said:
thats it for the first Q. I said I had no idea where this would go or where it was going. I am pretty pie-eyed and tired (8 beers and 2am, not shocking). Hopefully I can add to this later in the week but I gotta get some Zs now.

Hope y'all enjoyed it for what is worth. Cant promise future events like this...need to change the workflow to something more efficient and less ad hoc. anyway, goodnight cool peeps. If you aren't cool, why are you even reading? I kicked you out in the OP (and that includes me, so, g'night)
Click to expand...

Good job and a A+ for effort.
 
NICE thread Hoot, 9+ and you are making perfect sense........Football too. Thanks for all your work.





Salute the nation
 
Thanks. I dunno how many I drank, but it was too many. I am amazed I made sense at the end.

If I am going to do this more often, I am going to have to draw up basic formation and plays in a mock playbook format so I can cut and paste.

All in all, I was actually pleased with some guys in the first Q. Burns and Vance especially. Barron looked okay as well.

I will give some further thought to how I can do the film a little more efficiently. It is easier when you have their formations and plays in your head already. Ihaven't drawn up Steeler plays in a long time. Also, the video controls from NFL rewind are play, slomo, back 10s and forward 10s. I need a framexframe toggler to make it go faster.

Also, seeing it from the sideline cam, it is often hard to see jersey numbers. You have to watch a play several times and wait for the jersey to flash. I think in regulars season I get the goalpost and all 22 (top of stadium) views. That makes it a lot easier to see things.

Again, we will see where it goes as my time isn't always mine to control.

Now, I have to dispose of the two dead beers bottles I left on my desk last night. Off to recycling bin and then coffee for me.
 
Hoot said:
Thanks. I dunno how many I drank, but it was too many. I am amazed I made sense at the end.

If I am going to do this more often, I am going to have to draw up basic formation and plays in a mock playbook format so I can cut and paste.

All in all, I was actually pleased with some guys in the first Q. Burns and Vance especially. Barron looked okay as well.

I will give some further thought to how I can do the film a little more efficiently. It is easier when you have their formations and plays in your head already. Ihaven't drawn up Steeler plays in a long time. Also, the video controls from NFL rewind are play, slomo, back 10s and forward 10s. I need a framexframe toggler to make it go faster.

Also, seeing it from the sideline cam, it is often hard to see jersey numbers. You have to watch a play several times and wait for the jersey to flash. I think in regulars season I get the goalpost and all 22 (top of stadium) views. That makes it a lot easier to see things.

Again, we will see where it goes as my time isn't always mine to control.

Now, I have to dispose of the two dead beers bottles I left on my desk last night. Off to recycling bin and then coffee for me.
Click to expand...

Great stuff Hoot! It doesn't matter how you list the receivers as long as there is context. The Steelers do the wingback as the X the slot as the Y and the split end as the Z, but I could follow along perfectly with your explanations.
 
Cope said:
Great stuff Hoot! It doesn't matter how you list the receivers as long as there is context. The Steelers do the wingback as the X the slot as the Y and the split end as the Z, but I could follow along perfectly with your explanations.
Click to expand...
I always ran x as left emol, y as right emol, z as flanker and off the line. Just the way I learned it long ago. I use U and H as well. Have not used W for wing back in a while... Not since some time in a single wing offense years back.

You say you use steelers terminology. Where did you get it? I have seen old playbooks, but nothing very recent. I would be Interested in reading.



Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
 
Hoot said:
I always ran x as left emol, y as right emol, z as flanker and off the line. Just the way I learned it long ago. I use U and H as well. Have not used W for wing back in a while... Not since some time in a single wing offense years back.

You say you use steelers terminology. Where did you get it? I have seen old playbooks, but nothing very recent. I would be Interested in reading.



Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I haven't seen their playbooks, but it goes with their terminology. When plays are described or a coach mentions the subposition, they use those terms. Alex Kozora also uses them when he describes the positions, and he's been to every training camp practice for the past 5 years.

Also this play's terminology has leaked as the Reverse X Pass from Superbowl XL. El is the X and takes the reverse right for a pass to Hines who lined up in the slot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGwSb2aMqwc&feature=player_embedded
 
Sounds like a good question for a current player or a ex player who has been out for a short while. To confirm.... Would be a good podcast addition.
 
Cope said:
I haven't seen their playbooks, but it goes with their terminology. When plays are described or a coach mentions the subposition, they use those terms. Alex Kozora also uses them when he describes the positions, and he's been to every training camp practice for the past 5 years.

Also this play's terminology has leaked as the Reverse X Pass from Superbowl XL. El is the X and takes the reverse right for a pass to Hines who lined up in the slot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGwSb2aMqwc&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...

I don't recall hearing coaches discuss specific play terms, but I don't get to hear coaches much.

Alex goes to camp, but is he on the hill like fans or down with the coaches. I always thought he was on the hill - hard to hear from up there.

ARE's play goes back to Cowher and Wiz. Different coaches use different terms. Anyway, as stated before, they are labels. You use what you are comfy with and I use what I learned playing and coaching. Neither is right and neither is wrong so I am not going to argue it.



**BTW - I did take a look at the play. Yes, i would not have labeled ARE as X if I were charting that play. But, it is a very specialized play. If ARE normally lined up as X and on the line, then for a wrinkle like this, you don't always change the term. This is how playbooks get bloated over time...wrinkles with exceptions to terms go in but they never come out. I do not know if htat was the case for that playbook. Just making the point that teams often have wrinkles and exceptions to their own terms. But when drawing plays from scratch, you wouldn't normally make those exceptions. Part of the trouble with NFL offense is so many plays and so many personel packages. I was trying to deal with it on the fly in this thread (but beer)...I used U for TE rather than X and Y for left and right EMOL when TE was EMOL because it would cause readers to think the WR was lined up tight to the formation. Of course, on the first two plays, Vance was off the line. This makes it harder to match unkown playbook terminology to another OC's personnel and formation packs. But, again, it varies from coach to coach. I am sure you know the hole numbering system. Go look up what Penn State did under JoPa - it will bend your brain.
 
Last edited:
That's true. El used to be the slot, but did line up at the X because he was off the line of scrimmage and outside. Ward (usually the X) lined up in the slot, so for the purposes of that play, it was a reverse X Pass. The X receiver took the reverse and passed the ball. Our receivers are position flexible for the most part. We'll do some stacking or flipping to get better matchups.

It's just the only play I know for sure that labeled that spot as the X receiver. I know some teams call their Z a SE (Split End) or F for flanker. Like you're saying, it depends on the terminology of the coaches.

I will also say that Ariens did descend from the Whiz playbook, so I doubt the terminology would have changed for a 4th year QB.
 
Cope said:
That's true. El used to be the slot, but did line up at the X because he was off the line of scrimmage and outside. Ward (usually the X) lined up in the slot, so for the purposes of that play, it was a reverse X Pass. The X receiver took the reverse and passed the ball. Our receivers are position flexible for the most part. We'll do some stacking or flipping to get better matchups.

It's just the only play I know for sure that labeled that spot as the X receiver. I know some teams call their Z a SE (Split End) or F for flanker. Like you're saying, it depends on the terminology of the coaches.

I will also say that Ariens did descend from the Whiz playbook, so I doubt the terminology would have changed for a 4th year QB.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is just terms. And one of the reasons coaches keep wrinkling terms is because veteran QB. Sometimes it is easier for a new OC to adapt his terms than asking vet players to change their thinking. I seem to recall the Steelers went through a huge playbook rewrite like 10 years ago because of reasons such as this. I could recall incorrectly.

anyway, the base play terminology that I learned and that I have seen in 95% of playbooks I have studied is the base position for X is the split end (by default, on the line because that is what an End is). Doesn't mean it is football law, just what I learned and see in most playbooks I read. **** gets changed all the time for various reasons. But, when trying to rebuild a play diagram from film, I use the format that I learned. I am not trying to use Fitchner's terms (or whiz or arians or anywone else); I have no idea what his terms are. So, I use X for the Split End. I chose to use Y for the right side Split end and U for TE while drinking as a way to differentiate between WR and TE (personnel). I then use Z for Flanker or WR who is off the line regardless if he is outside, in the slot, in the nasty split, etc. Just a WR off the line. I tried to use H for a guy off the line who is not a WR (ie, TE or RB). But, if the guy off was lined up as a FB in a classic I, I probably would have designated him 3 or 4. ROFL. It just gets messy very quickly with all the different looks an NFL team gives.

Which, after much talk here, is why I tried to put a name or jersey number to the play like "H is Vance". That is also what took so long between plays - after watching play and drawing play, I gotta figure out jersey numbers then watch again to see who stood out in a good or bad way.
 
I seem to remember Ben losing his **** when Haley changed terms.
 
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