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How much more do YOU need to see

SteelerSask said:
I think he has looked as good as Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen. I think Jackson and Allen have been better. I think he has a chance to develop. But there is no developing with some of you. He makes many of the required NFL throws. He has zero run game and problems at Receiver and the Oline. He has a **** HC and the OC is the buddy of the Superstar QB who pretty much calls the plays himself. Thats how much I see
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Ummmmm you do realize the OC is buddy of the HC, they go back to coaching in college together, he was like Tomlins first hire. Of course Ben has to be blamed in there some how. It's so hilarious when haters blame Ben for Fichtner becoming OC, then realize Fichtner and Tomlin go way back as friends and coaches. Also, why if Ben has that much say was BA fired and Haley(a known *******) brought in?
He looks no where near as good as Mayfield did last year, Darnold doesn't look that good at all, but he did throw for 4 TD's yesterday with a crap Oline, very little running game (Bell had 59 yards rushing, 3.3 avg yesterday), name me his WR's?
 
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Any time you come in as a brand new starter, following up a HOF QB, you are going to look like **** by comparison. I have watched Ben play games just like the Browns game last week, so it is not the end of the world. Mason does need to show that he can do it, at least occasionally, to be given a pass for a game. So far he has not done that, but I wonder how much is truly his fault.
 
Mayfield was pretty solid last year not sure I can buy that comparison as far as being good as... Baker almost had 30 TDs in his rookie season. Problem i have with the WR discussion is before Rudolph's concussion he was doing well. Those WRs didn't change when he under-perfomed against the Rams. Nor did they change when he had those 100 plus passer rating games.

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MT~Forged said:
Any time you come in as a brand new starter, following up a HOF QB, you are going to look like **** by comparison. I have watched Ben play games just like the Browns game last week, so it is not the end of the world. Mason does need to show that he can do it, at least occasionally, to be given a pass for a game. So far he has not done that, but I wonder how much is truly his fault.
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The issue there is every time Mason does something wrong, everyone immediately compares that to a time Ben did bad, you can't have it both ways. You can't say well Ben had a bad game, but then get upset when people say how much better Ben was when he was a rookie than Mason is now.

Ben had a horrible game in Cleveland in like 2013, but he's also the winningest QB ever at that stadium and has an unreal record vs Cleveland. Tom Brady lost in Cleveland before.
 
The problem with comparing him to guys like Jackson or Mayfield (aside from draft expectations) is that Jackson and Mayfield were very quickly made THE guy on their respective teams. They get first team reps all the time and games planned around them. Rudolph wasn't THE guy. He wasn't even the main B/U last year - Dobbs was. This team was all in on Ben (as it should be) going into this year - planning, playbooks, reps at practice, etc would have been predicated on Ben's skill set. MR did not have an entire offseason built around him as the man this season. I'd say that sets him back a bit from other guys.

The real question is can he develop given that same opportunity? Darn hard to say right now. I'll point to what I said in another thread about his feet...he has to learn to slide and step up in the pocket to give himself room to step into his throws. I haven't watched a lick of his college tape so I have no idea if he demonstrated that in school or not. If not, I'd be concerned about being able to teach it. Seems a lot of that is feel by the athlete.
 
This is not a very good era for the Steelers. We are at the tail end of Roethlisberger with a coaching staff that doesn't seem to "get it" or make the steps to be great.

Now we are transitioning into "post-Roethlisberger" without an heir apparent or top-10/15 guy at best.

It's one of the reasons I've wanted to blow things up for a while.

I mean, I guess MAYBE you could say this year, with Roethlisberger hurt, the defense has made huge strides in just getting better across the board. And that if Roethlisberger can come back and give us one more good year of 95.0 to 100.0 QB rating and 2.3 points per possession, then MAYBE everything clicks and we can make one last run. That's if the turnovers happen like they are happening now for the defense. If we can keep everyone healthy. If the O-line can find a fountain of youth for one more year.

I mean, to me, that's too many ifs and buts, but I guess is theoretically could happen.

I just think any expectations for this season after Roethlisberger got hurt is misplaced. I'm surprised we're .500. And it wouldn't surprise me if the rails come off the rest of the way or Tomlin somehow squeaks out an 8-8 record. Who the **** knows with this group.

I'm not sure what the plan is. Probably there isn't one. This team looks at things year-to-year in my opinion. Always has. Next year will be next year and 2021 will be 2021.

They won't address any real QB solution until they absolutely need to and Roethlisberger is officially retired. At that point, the better bet might just be free agent and retread QB's for a while and MAYBE a young QB after that if we get a good draft pick.

I like Rudolph, but the last couple weeks haven't been great. I know the play around him on the offensive side of the ball isn't that high either and maybe he gets a slight pass. But I just have a feeling with this group, developing QB's is just not in the cards. Every season is it's own puzzle. Next year the puzzle/answer will be Roethlisberger and Rudolph as backup and maybe ANOTHER late round QB draft pick (they happen about every 3 seasons). After that who knows.
 
Hoot said:
The problem with comparing him to guys like Jackson or Mayfield (aside from draft expectations) is that Jackson and Mayfield were very quickly made THE guy on their respective teams. They get first team reps all the time and games planned around them. Rudolph wasn't THE guy. He wasn't even the main B/U last year - Dobbs was. This team was all in on Ben (as it should be) going into this year - planning, playbooks, reps at practice, etc would have been predicated on Ben's skill set. MR did not have an entire offseason built around him as the man this season. I'd say that sets him back a bit from other guys.

The real question is can he develop given that same opportunity? Darn hard to say right now. I'll point to what I said in another thread about his feet...he has to learn to slide and step up in the pocket to give himself room to step into his throws. I haven't watched a lick of his college tape so I have no idea if he demonstrated that in school or not. If not, I'd be concerned about being able to teach it. Seems a lot of that is feel by the athlete.
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Mayfield wasn't the guy, and neither was Jackson. Mason played in a predominantly shotgun offense in College, that is our offense here, he's had a full year to learn the plays and system, had a ton of reps in the preseason.
 
You really can’t grade Rudolph right now. If you watch the coach film it’s not as bad as most think. From the games I’ve watched, I see lots of covered WRs. There are plays where a guy breaks open in a tight window and Rudolph doesn’t pull the trigger but that’s typical of a young QB to not attempt tight window throws. But he has throw into tight windows several times, just not consistently.

This offense for years has been based on talent, not scheme.
 
Steelworth said:
Terry Bradshaw?
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Totally different era, can't even compare that, it was extremely difficult to throw then, he won the NFL MVP with 28TD's and 20INT's, completing 56% of his passes and not even throwing for 3,000 yards.
 
Coryea said:
Mayfield wasn't the guy, and neither was Jackson. Mason played in a predominantly shotgun offense in College, that is our offense here, he's had a full year to learn the plays and system, had a ton of reps in the preseason.
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The entire Baltimore offense this year was built around Jackson per the team.
Mayfield was the expected starter for CLE this year and thus had the entire offseason to develop.

I was referring to current season, not last year btw and not discussion about where other QB's were at game 7 in their first year as starters. Ultimately, I find these sorts of comparisons to be flawed because everyone is different and each team and circumstance is different. Right now, the only question I am concern with regrading MR is what can he develop into. Right now, I have concerns which is why I want to see him play out the season. After that, barring any serious setbacks, its Ben's team again, but at least we should know if MR will be the future starter or if we will be looking to acquire someone in the next two drafts.
 
Coryea said:
Totally different era, can't even compare that, it was extremely difficult to throw then, he won the NFL MVP with 28TD's and 20INT's, completing 56% of his passes and not even throwing for 3,000 yards.
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One thing I would add to that is that colleges were very different. QB's coming out today are light years ahead of where QB's were coming up in the 70's
 
Hoot said:
One thing I would add to that is that colleges were very different. QB's coming out today are light years ahead of where QB's were coming up in the 70's
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I disagree. Unless you are willing to do what Baltimore is doing many of these college programs are drastically under preparing these QB's for a pro offense. They look to the sideline for every adjustment and audible they do almost no thinking on their own, they don't take snaps under center. Their ability to read defenses like the see in the pro game is severely lacking. They may be better mechanically than the 70's guys but not in the cerebral aspect of the game. Not to mention a vastly different style being played the college level.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
I disagree. Unless you are willing to do what Baltimore is doing many of these college programs are drastically under preparing these QB's for a pro offense. They look to the sideline for every adjustment and audible they do almost no thinking on their own, they don't take snaps under center. Their ability to read defenses like the see in the pro game is severely lacking. They may be better mechanically than the 70's guys but not in the cerebral aspect of the game. Not to mention a vastly different style being played the college level.
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So you think players coming out in the 70's were more pro ready than those coming out today? If so, I'll just put the mike down and agree to disagree with you on the topic.
 
I would like to see Mason with a year under his belt, better OL play, RBs and WRs. He has looked like ****, but his supporting cast has not helped too much. The Steelers offense is going through growing pains with MR, but injuries are killing them, too.
 
thesteelcity said:
I would like to see Mason with a year under his belt, better OL play, RBs and WRs. He has looked like ****, but his supporting cast has not helped too much. The Steelers offense is going through growing pains with MR, but injuries are killing them, too.
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Have to agree, let him play, maybe he hasn't shaken out the trauma of the concussion. He needs to see the field with a serious game plan designed for him and the current state of the Offense, 3 steps drop back and quick releases, get Snell and Conner back and try to make something that resembles a threat on running plays, use Snell as a fullback if needed, get McDonald more involved. No more than 2 WRs sets unless Juju , JW and DJ are available, **** holton, rather see vannett get a chance down the seam.

Basically I want to see Mason playing with fichtner's head out of his own ***

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It's really hard to judge Mason right now. He is playing too safe and the coaching staff seems to have a limited playbook with him. For the few times he takes a shot, the passes either seem to be slightly off target or the wide receiver fails to make a play on a well thrown ball. There is also zero running game to help him out and we are down to a bunch of borderline roster players at wide receiver. Tape is right, we have won with talent and not scheme and we are seeing how limited this offensive coaching staff is right now.

My biggest concern is Mason ranks near the bottom of the league in virtually every major passing category and there have been very few throws that have made me say "wow."

I need to see Rudolph the rest of the season. I want him to improve his pocket awareness and field vision. I need to see him take more chances and find the open receivers in tight windows. I need him to prove he can drive the team down the field and score points. I want to see him begin to elevate his teammates. The coaching staff really needs to help him out and build an offense around his strengths. I don't think they'll do that and the team will suffer as a result. Instead, they'll rely on their defense to be dominant just like they relied on their offense for much of the past decade.
 
Coryea said:
Totally different era, can't even compare that, it was extremely difficult to throw then, he won the NFL MVP with 28TD's and 20INT's, completing 56% of his passes and not even throwing for 3,000 yards.
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He said "All the greats show something out of the gate". Well, I refuted that nonsense because Bradshaw was an absolute mess to start his NFL career.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
It's really hard to judge Mason right now. He is playing too safe and the coaching staff seems to have a limited playbook with him. For the few times he takes a shot, the passes either seem to be slightly off target or the wide receiver fails to make a play on a well thrown ball. There is also zero running game to help him out and we are down to a bunch of borderline roster players at wide receiver. Tape is right, we have won with talent and not scheme and we are seeing how limited this offensive coaching staff is right now.

My biggest concern is Mason ranks near the bottom of the league in virtually every major passing category and there have been very few throws that have made me say "wow."

I need to see Rudolph the rest of the season. I want him to improve his pocket awareness and field vision. I need to see him take more chances and find the open receivers in tight windows. I need him to prove he can drive the team down the field and score points. I want to see him begin to elevate his teammates. The coaching staff really needs to help him out and build an offense around his strengths. I don't think they'll do that and the team will suffer as a result. Instead, they'll rely on their defense to be dominant just like they relied on their offense for much of the past decade.
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That's a reasonable take. I surely haven't said "wow" either but for maybe his scramble and throw to Vance in the EZ for the TD.
 
This offense was set up for BR not MR. Ben quick release, get rid of the ball quickly makes this OL better than maybe it really is. With MR ,fast decision making and quick release really isn't what he is about. At OSU he was a down field thrower. He also had some pretty good RBS and WRS. Hoot was right the bed was already made for BR. MR is a completely different animal. For all you counting on Ben next year, I would hold off until he starts throwing the football. Elbows can be a ***** to get back to normal. If it is Mason, then the line needs re-tooled.
 
There are several issues here:

First, Ben will be back next year. Rudolph only has this year to make an impression. There is no reason to pull him. The Steelers need to find out as much as they can now. But this is also the issue with drafting a QB when your QB is probably going to play 4 more years from when Rudolph was drafted. That leads to the next point. I know the Fritz trade appears to be a great one. But there are some good QBs in this next draft. Maybe not like the 04' draft but some good QBs. If the Steelers wanted to re-build this year would have been the year to do it. I'm not exactly sure what they are thinking. It appears they went all in on this season, damn the torpedoes. But when you do that by trading draft picks now you could be in a jam. They traded their 1st for Fritz and 5th for Vannett. Vannett's snap count is down to 22% in the last game. He's produced little to nothing in the pass dept. and his blocking isn't that great.

Second, because of these issues they may be tied to Rudolph for the next 2 years and still not know if he can play. This year is not a great year to evaluate him. But there is never going to be a good year. The OL is older, the WRs are younger, and the RBs are... not that great. They also have cap issues to worry about. So FAs isn't going to be in play much. So where does that leave Rudolph? He'll be behind Ben the next two years and then he'll have one year (his 5th) to show he's the guy. But nobody knows what the OL, WRs or RBs will look like then.

I hope they have a plan. Because if they don't the next few years could be bad. They also have a ton of FAs in 2021.
 
Coryea said:
Ummmmm you do realize the OC is buddy of the HC, they go back to coaching in college together, he was like Tomlins first hire. Of course Ben has to be blamed in there some how. It's so hilarious when haters blame Ben for Fichtner becoming OC, then realize Fichtner and Tomlin go way back as friends and coaches. Also, why if Ben has that much say was BA fired and Haley(a known *******) brought in?
He looks no where near as good as Mayfield did last year, Darnold doesn't look that good at all, but he did throw for 4 TD's yesterday with a crap Oline, very little running game (Bell had 59 yards rushing, 3.3 avg yesterday), name me his WR's?
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I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not blaming Ben for the OC. I'm saying that Ben and Rudolph are at very different spectrums of their career. Ben is past the point where he needed someone teaching him much and challenging him on everything. He needed someone to work closely with as a second set of eyes with a similar vision. Rudolph probably needs someone with more chops and teaching skill. I honestly and truly believe that Munchak was the only one on this staff who could do that. The proof I offer is that no one ever seems to get a hell of a lot better on this team. They either come out showing very well and are a starter / star or they are career backups.
 
Steelworth said:
He said "All the greats show something out of the gate". Well, I refuted that nonsense because Bradshaw was an absolute mess to start his NFL career.
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I didn't see it, but im sure he showed that rocket arm and mobility on a few occasions during the early years

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