The Coronavirus thread

[Tibs]

Even if there is "some" efficacy at least perception-wise if not firmly scientifically, if they can force you to wear masks to live and buy necessities, guess what? They can also force you to take their vaccine and whatever is in it to do the same things and for the same benevolent reason. There is way more at stake here than "exploding Corona numbers."

So sad to see roughly a third of all Americans have lost their collective minds. God help us all.

 

[Steelworth]

The real numbers are much much lower.

I understand that. I'm simply posting the percentages of the data available. Asymptomatic and undiagnosed are obviously not going to be included. I guess we should also take into account the amount of testing being done.

But my main point was, Sweden doesn't have one of the worst death outbreaks in the world, as our resident troll claimed. Not even close.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Even if there is "some" efficacy at least perception-wise with mass mask wearing if not if not firmly substantiated by the science, the issue is this: If they can force you to wear masks to live and buy necessities, guess what?

They can also force you to take their vaccine and whatever is in it to do the same things and for the same benevolent reason.

There is way more at stake here than "exploding Corona numbers."

You can hate me for this, but even as a conservative I have no problem with people being required to get a vaccine if they are going to leave their homes and be in the general population. Don't want to take it don't leave your house.

Too many diseases today face comebacks because of anti-vaxxers. There are people who legitimately can't get vaccinated so everyone else needs to be vaccinated to protect them.

Have at me!

 

[oneforthebus]

So, we'll have a POTUS named Keisha Bottoms? Judging by the mess black female mayors and solicitors are making everywhere, no thanks.

After one named "Barack Hussein Obama," I'm trusting my instincts on this.

I didn't say I want her to be elected. She's very popular there and if she drives a lot of African American voters to the polls Trump could lose Georgia.

 

[Superman]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCo4jmvFIKS/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading

 

[deljzc]

Anti-vaxxers are idiots.

 

[deljzc]

Remember when London told everyone to turn off their lights during German bombing raids?

I swear some of you would argue having someone tell you to "turn off your lights during a bombing raid" is the start of goverment control and would do it just out of stupid spite.

What a load of horseshit.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Remember when London told everyone to turn off their lights during German bombing raids?

I swear some of you would argue having someone tell you to "turn off your lights during a bombing raid" is the start of goverment control and would do it just out of stupid spite.

What a load of horseshit.

The difference is that it’s indisputable that turning off the lights would have the desired effect of making it tougher on bombers.

Let’s say the government first told people that turning out lights don’t do anything to reduce the damage from bombers. In fact, it could make it easier for bombers somehow. Then a few weeks later they say turning out lights works. Then you have one city that turned out their lights and one that didn’t and they sustained similar damage.

Next the government told people that they couldn’t have lights on ever? Doesn’t matter if there’s planes inbounds. No air raid horns. Just never turn on lights ever because better safe than sorry.

that’s a closer analogy.

 

[Tibs]

The difference is that it’s indisputable that turning off the lights would have the desired effect of making it tougher on bombers. Let’s say the government first told people that turning out lights don’t do anything to reduce the damage from bombers. In fact, it could make it easier for bombers somehow. Then a few weeks later they say turning out lights works. Then you have one city that turned out their lights and one that didn’t and they sustained similar damage. Next the government told people that they couldn’t have lights on ever? Doesn’t matter if there’s planes inbounds. No air raid horns. Just never turn on lights ever because better safe than sorry. that’s a closer analogy.

Yeah, the difference being, most folks didn't need 'the government' to tell them - one way or the other - that turning their lights off during a blitzkrieg was a ******* damn good idea. Sometimes life isn't all that complicated. Wearing a mask and social distancing during a friggin' pandemic is one of those cases. At least for most people it is.

 

[wig]

That's the primary reason the numbers have crept down in the EU. People simply accepted the realities of this worldwide pandemic and have cooperated fully.

In fairness, you European countries have a habit of laying down an doing whatever a totalitarian regime tells you to.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Remember when London told everyone to turn off their lights during German bombing raids?

I swear some of you would argue having someone tell you to "turn off your lights during a bombing raid" is the start of goverment control and would do it just out of stupid spite.

What a load of horseshit.

Are you OK with a mandatory vaccine in order to live and conduct commerce? That may very likely be the condition for life going on and returning to some semblance of normal.

If you can be made to wear a mask, you can be made to take a vaccine to enter the same store of business or to travel. Not hard to see the slippery slope and precedent being set with mass acceptance and applied virtue to something without a firm scientific basis.

In fact, what's the effective rate of vaccine -- 30-40% off the top of my head if even that every year with all the strains. Can a mask even be proven to have the same efficacy rate scientifically? Not yet, but the lemmings are latching on to it as settled, Reassurance Ritual science.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Anti-vaxxers are idiots.

Mandatory vaxx pushers are idiots regardless of the "need."

Nothing wrong with eternal vigilance.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Yeah, the difference being, most folks didn't need 'the government' to tell them - one way or the other - that turning their lights off during a blitzkrieg was a ******* damn good idea. Sometimes life isn't all that complicated. Wearing a mask and social distancing during a friggin' pandemic is one of those cases. At least for most people it is.

Then wear your virtue bra proudly.

 

[wig]

No wonder Trump got elected. Geez.

Sweden sees high COVID-19 fatality rate after forgoing lockdown
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/sweden-sees-high-covid-19-fatality-rate-after-forgoing-lockdown/#x



A buddy of mine's father and uncle just died not long ago in Stockholm. Folks there have realized what a dumbass move the 'herd immunity' strategy was. Guess that's not the case with the Trump base stateside.

5,572 / 10,000,000 = a death rate of .00056

the U.S. is at .00042

Admittedly, Sweden's death rate is a bit higher but still, those death rates don't touch 1% yet. But please, feel free to panic.

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm fine with mandatory vaccines to go to school or daycare, I'm fine with a business requiring it as a condition of employment, I'm fine with a nursing home requiring it as a condition of living there. I'm not fine with the government mandating everyone get it as a condition of leaving their house. Between reasonable people and people who have to get it for one reason or another (as well as people who will already have had corona) there will probably be enough for herd immunity. Plus once this thing spreads around enough and people have several friends or family members die of it they'll probably change their tunes.

 

[SojournerSteel]

You can hate me for this, but even as a conservative I have no problem with people being required to get a vaccine if they are going to leave their homes and be in the general population. Don't want to take it don't leave your house.

Too many diseases today face comebacks because of anti-vaxxers. There are people who legitimately can't get vaccinated so everyone else needs to be vaccinated to protect them.

Have at me!

I'll let your lack of fidelity to the US Constitution stand on its own in this case. You just accepted a premise that not even the totalitarian regimes nor Barack Obama dreamed of a few short years ago.

I guess the 4th Amendment is null and void here. In your own words you just consigned anyone believing in the 4th Amendment to House Arrest by the State.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

It's not reasonable to force vaccination on an entire population when there are side effects potentially, a marginal efficacy, and a gross overreach of government authority.

Keep your laws off my body.

Who the hell are you to say which free citizens get to leave their house or not?

 

[SojournerSteel]

I'm fine with mandatory vaccines to go to school or daycare, I'm fine with a business requiring it as a condition of employment, I'm fine with a nursing home requiring it as a condition of living there. I'm not fine with the government mandating everyone get it as a condition of leaving their house. Between reasonable people and people who have to get it for one reason or another (as well as people who will already have had corona) there will probably be enough for herd immunity. Plus once this thing spreads around enough and people have several friends or family members die of it they'll probably change their tunes.

Then you are also an enemy of the US Constitution or you need to tell me where the government has this authority codified in our documents?

Edit: Strike the first part, but I still think it's overreach to make someone's ability to earn a livelihood contingent upon taking a vaccine from Bill Gates.

The problem is that there may be some essential businesses where this would make sense in a limited number of instances like a nursing home, but we know that this will creep very fast.

 

[oneforthebus]

I actually registered to volunteer in a vaccine trial. Statistically vaccines are overwhelmingly safe. I hope they pick me and shoot me up!

 

[SojournerSteel]

I actually registered to volunteer in a vaccine trial. Statistically vaccines are overwhelmingly safe. I hope they pick me and shoot me up!

Maybe Trump will lift the ban and allow you to travel to Chyna. I hear they're looking for volunteers.

 

[oneforthebus]

Then you are also an enemy of the US Constitution or you need to tell me where the government has this authority codified in our documents?

LOL. Do you have kids? Do you want to send them to a school unvaccinated with a bunch of other kids who aren't immune to polio, smallpox, diptheria, pertussis, meningitis and measles? Want to put your mom in a nursing home with a bunch of people who aren't immune to covid? If not sit down and be quiet.

 

[oneforthebus]

Maybe Trump will lift the ban and allow you to travel to Chyna. I hear they're looking for volunteers.

Don't need to, plenty of very promising vaccine candidates right here in the US.

 

[Steelworth]

Then you are also an enemy of the US Constitution or you need to tell me where the government has this authority codified in our documents?

She basically said she's not fine with the government mandating a person get a vaccine to leave their house. Private businesses can do what they want, they are not protected under the Fourth Amendment. Now schools and state-run nursing homes, that's a different story for me.

And with the data coming out that children are both unlikely to get the virus and unlikely to spread the virus, I'm not sure about a mandated vaccine but it's still quite early.

 

[oneforthebus]

She basically said she's not fine with the government mandating a person get a vaccine to leave their house. Private businesses can do what they want, they are not protected under the Fourth Amendment. Now schools and state-run nursing homes, that's a different story for me.

And with the data coming out that children are both unlikely to get the virus and unlikely to spread the virus, I'm not sure about a mandated vaccine.

They certainly do get it, though less frequently. There are over 200,000 confirmed cases in kids. They don't spread it as much, but it is believed they can spread it. While kids only very rarely die from it they have been hospitalized in decent numbers.

 

[SojournerSteel]

LOL. Do you have kids? Do you want to send them to a school unvaccinated with a bunch of other kids who aren't immune to polio, smallpox, diptheria, pertussis, meningitis and measles? Want to put your mom in a nursing home with a bunch of people who aren't immune to covid? If not sit down and be quiet.

If I lived in NY or one of these liberal paradises, I'd keep mom out of the nursing home. The slope has gotten slippery in America with feminine sensibilities determining public policy and interpreting the 4th Amendment liberally except of course when it comes to "keep your laws off my body."

Sorry, my OP was too strong as you were not advocating for mass vaccine to leave home. But still, if anywhere you go can require it, eventually there will be no difference.

 

[SojournerSteel]

She basically said she's not fine with the government mandating a person get a vaccine to leave their house. Private businesses can do what they want, they are not protected under the Fourth Amendment. Now schools and state-run nursing homes, that's a different story for me.

And with the data coming out that children are both unlikely to get the virus and unlikely to spread the virus, I'm not sure about a mandated vaccine but it's still quite early.

I made a note in the post -- the original language was too strong on my part.