The Coronavirus thread

[Troglodyte]

So what you're saying is we could have achieved exactly what we're achieving now by protecting the 65+ population and letting young healthy people live their lives?

If only someone had thought of that sooner!

So confine everyone 65+ to what, nursing homes? Because nursing homes never had outbreaks?

Seriously, what do you mean “protect” everyone 65+? How, logistically, how?

 

[Troglodyte]

A "fear" bestowed upon the populace that made everyone afraid and never, ever happened. Never.

It's the new mantra. Use fear and "in the name of public safety" to circumvent the Constitution and individual rights to achieve means. Notice how now, Beijing Joe calls gun violence an epidemic - which it is not?

In the name of public safety, and making the population afraid, is the new means by which power is being acquired.

I think conspiracy theories are rooted in fear.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Nonsense, since summer there have been areas of the country that had overwhelmed hospitals and refrigerated trucks being used as temporary morgues.

Prove it.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I think conspiracy theories are rooted in fear.

There's nothing conspiracy about it. It's obvious what's happened/happening. And hospitals were never overwhelmed.

 

[Djfan]

This is the best article that I have read on this topic. Enjoy


https://www.deconstructingconventio...eY3Ym7r6jMY5RqNZcJ1Tr1_H04Cf-NJ48pkpzoYx4j4fw

 

[Djfan]

I think conspiracy theories are rooted in fear.

Does that mean that they are wrong? Fear is now a determiner of truth or falsehood?

 

[ZonaBurgh]

So confine everyone 65+ to what, nursing homes? Because nursing homes never had outbreaks?

Seriously, what do you mean “protect” everyone 65+? How, logistically, how?

Seriously, what percentage of the population over the age of 65 live in nursing homes?
You know, some of us actually own homes and are still able to walk and talk at the same time.

Show where OFTB's statement is a falsehood. Please be specific.

 

[Steeltime]

Seriously, what do you mean “protect” everyone 65+? How, logistically, how?

Just what the geniuses in government did and you lapped up like a good little quisling - ordering the closure of ALL businesses, no matter who works there and despite the fact the vast majority of employees are under 65, as well as shutting down grammar schools, high schools, and colleges. D'uh. Every grammar school I know of is filled with the elderly.

 

[oneforthebus]

So confine everyone 65+ to what, nursing homes? Because nursing homes never had outbreaks?

Seriously, what do you mean “protect” everyone 65+? How, logistically, how?

Oh I don't know, maybe isolate the people who do contract it and don't send them back into the nursing homes where they spread it like wildfire to everyone else there?

No, we didn't need to "confine them". We should have focused our efforts on advising and encouraging those at high risk to isolate themselves. We could have focused on providing things like delivery services and home care and offering benefits to those at risk to stay off the job. The heavy handedness of the lockdowns and mask mandates for people and in places where they weren't needed or rational caused them to backfire. They lost credibility when it stopped being about preventing overwhelming the hospitals, and became about some nebulous impossible goal of preventing all spread even to young healthy people who were at no greater risk than with any other viral illness before life could ever go back to normal.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

This is the best article that I have read on this topic. Enjoy


https://www.deconstructingconventio...eY3Ym7r6jMY5RqNZcJ1Tr1_H04Cf-NJ48pkpzoYx4j4fw

I encourage everyone to read this. All incredibly valid points. All points supported with embedded links and references. There are soooooo many questions about these gene-editors. A lot of risk. A lot of conflict of interest issues. Some of my favorite points:

All vaccine makers are immune from liability.

The four major companies who are making these covid vaccines are/have either:

1. Never brought a vaccine to market before covid (Moderna and Johnson & Johnson).
2. Are serial felons (Pfizer, and Astra Zeneca).
3. Are both (Johnson & Johnson).

Moderna had been trying to "Modernize our RNA" (thus the company name)--for years, but had never successfully brought ANY product to market...In fact, all major vaccine makers (save Moderna) have paid out tens of billions of dollars in damages for other products they brought to market when they knew those products would cause injuries and death--see Vioxx, Bextra, Celebrex, Thalidomide, and Opioids as a few examples.

NO ACCESS TO THE RAW DATA FROM THE TRIALS - Would you like to see the raw data that produced the "90% and 95% effective" claims touted in the news?

Me too...But they won't let us see that data.

THE VACCINES DO NOT STOP TRANSMISSION OR INFECTION

PEOPLE ARE CATCHING COVID AFTER BEING FULLY VACCINATED...You get vaccinated and you still catch covid.

• It's happening in Washington State
• It's happening in New York
• It's happening in Michigan
• It's happening in Hawaii
• It's happening in several other states too.
• It happened to 80% of 35 nuns who got the vaccine in Kentucky. Two of them died by the way.

According to the CDC's own numbers, covid has a 99.74% survival rate. Why would I take a risk on a product, that doesn't stop infection or transmission, to help me overcome a cold that has a .26% chance of killing me--actually in my age range is has about a .1% chance of killing me

FAUCI AND SIX OTHERS AT NIAID OWN PATENTS IN THE MODERNA VACCINE. Thanks to the Bayh-Dole Act, government workers are allowed to file patents on any research they do using tax payer funding. Tony Fauci owns over 1,000 patents (see this video for more details), including patents being used on the Moderna vaccine...which he approved government funding for. In fact, the NIH (which NIAID is part of) claims joint ownership of Moderna's vaccine. Does anyone else see this as a MAJOR conflict of interest, or criminal even?

THE WORLD'S LEADING VACCINOLOGIST IS SOUNDING THE ALARM...Here is what may be the biggest reason this covid vaccine doesn't make sense to me.
When someone who is very pro-vaccine, who has spent his entire professional career overseeing the development of vaccines, is shouting from the mountaintops that we have a major problem, I think the man should be heard: Geert Vanden Bossche,

 

[oneforthebus]

I encourage everyone to read this. All incredibly valid points. All points supported with embedded links and references. There are soooooo many questions about these gene-editors. A lot of risk. A lot of conflict of interest issues. Some of my favorite points:

Tim I've been reading your articles on Facebook but don't want to get into a discussion there for a variety of reasons.

I will say it's inaccurate to say these vaccines are "gene editing". Gene editing therapies that have been attempted or are being developed are for people who have defective genes that need to be corrected, e.g. people with genetic diseases such as cystic fibrosis. Messenger Mrna does not edit your genes. It sends a signal to your cells to make proteins similar to the spike protein in covid that your immune system then learns to fight off. Mrna degrades rapidly in your body and disappears. It never enters the nucleus of your cells where your DNA is so cannot alter your genetic makeup.

I've been involved with CF foundation for years so follow the development of genetic modifying drugs closely, as well as had extensive discussions with someone involved in development of covid vaccines. Contrary to what most people think, by the way, pharma companies have invested literal billions into these vaccines and they can't actually charge enough for most vaccines to make massive profits on them. Other types of drugs are more profitable. Not saying they aren;t making money on them but the idea that this was all just to engorge themselves with piles of money is an exaggeration.

There is a very good chance covid won't kill you if you're young and healthy. There is also a reasonable chance you could have some unpleasant long term effects from it. I know several people who do. A nurse in her 20s who was perfectly healthy, and avid hiker, still using nebulizer treatments for shortness of breath months after the fact. My son still doesn't quite have his taste and smell back 3 months after the fact and that's something that bothers me every day because I likely gave it to him. You can get blood clots from covid or organ damage or neurolgical damage. So if you're talking about long term effects from the vaccine you ought to also be talking about long term effects of getting covid. Something we also don't really know about yet. You're also unlikely to die from measles but we vaccinate people because there are some pretty nasty long term effects from measles like deafness and brain damage, and it can also be deadly to certain segments of the population, notably babies.

Once again for the covid fear mongers, there are risks of long term complications of many viral illnesses, and that's not something there should be hysteria over, but they are worth preventing if we can.

Something that is happening all over the internet is this idea that VAERS reports are reports of reactions caused by vaccines.

The reality is VAERS reports are accepted from anyone who has any sort of problem within weeks or months of getting a vaccine. There is no vetting to see if they were actually caused by the vaccine. There is no investigation of any underlying conditions or possible other causes. Someone reports something to VAERS and it goes into the statistics.

This is nothing but an investigational tool. When millions of people get a vaccine, some number of them are going to get GB syndrome, or Bell's Palsy, or blood clots, or any number of other conditions including death. In the vast majority of serious VAERS reports, the numbers of these instances is not statistically different from the numbers in the general population. So to say that VAERS is a list of things caused by the vaccine is inaccurate and any serious scientist knows this.

Anyway gotta run but there is more to discuss when I have more time. Just some things to consider.

 

[oneforthebus]

• It happened to 80% of 35 nuns who got the vaccine in Kentucky. Two of them died by the way.

And this is the kind of cherry picked headline that drive me crazy. If you click the link you'll see these nuns tested positive 2 days after getting the vaccine which means they likely contracted covid before getting the vaccine. In any case immune protection from the vaccine is not fully in gear until 2 weeks after getting it. So this is a meaningless occurrence in terms of safety or efficacy of the vaccine. But if someone just sees this headline they'll never know that.

 

[Troglodyte]

Prove it.

Prove to the hospital staff who worked 20 hour shift attending to Covid patients on gurneys in hallways that they weren’t overwhelmed.

 

[Superman]

Prove to the hospital staff who worked 20 hour shift attending to Covid patients on gurneys in hallways that they weren’t overwhelmed.

linky no worky

oh, linky no supply

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Prove to the hospital staff who worked 20 hour shift attending to Covid patients on gurneys in hallways that they weren’t overwhelmed.

You made a statement as if this was a fact. We'd like you to support it.

 

[Troglodyte]

linky no worky

oh, linky no supply

U miss the month of January?

 

[Troglodyte]

You made a statement as if this was a fact. We'd like you to support it.

Again, if you were around in January you couldn’t miss it, unless I guess OAN is your news. We’re the refrigerated trucks fact? You think morgues were overwhelmed but hospitals were OK?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Tim I've been reading your articles on Facebook but don't want to get into a discussion there for a variety of reasons.

I will say it's inaccurate to say these vaccines are "gene editing". Gene editing therapies that have been attempted or are being developed are for people who have defective genes that need to be corrected, e.g. people with genetic diseases such as cystic fibrosis. Messenger Mrna does not edit your genes. It sends a signal to your cells to make proteins similar to the spike protein in covid that your immune system then learns to fight off. Mrna degrades rapidly in your body and disappears. It never enters the nucleus of your cells where your DNA is so cannot alter your genetic makeup.

I've been involved with CF foundation for years so follow the development of genetic modifying drugs closely, as well as had extensive discussions with someone involved in development of covid vaccines. Contrary to what most people think, by the way, pharma companies have invested literal billions into these vaccines and they can't actually charge enough for most vaccines to make massive profits on them. Other types of drugs are more profitable. Not saying they aren;t making money on them but the idea that this was all just to engorge themselves with piles of money is an exaggeration.

There is a very good chance covid won't kill you if you're young and healthy. There is also a reasonable chance you could have some unpleasant long term effects from it. I know several people who do. A nurse in her 20s who was perfectly healthy, and avid hiker, still using nebulizer treatments for shortness of breath months after the fact. My son still doesn't quite have his taste and smell back 3 months after the fact and that's something that bothers me every day because I likely gave it to him. You can get blood clots from covid or organ damage or neurolgical damage. So if you're talking about long term effects from the vaccine you ought to also be talking about long term effects of getting covid. Something we also don't really know about yet. You're also unlikely to die from measles but we vaccinate people because there are some pretty nasty long term effects from measles like deafness and brain damage, and it can also be deadly to certain segments of the population, notably babies.

Once again for the covid fear mongers, there are risks of long term complications of many viral illnesses, and that's not something there should be hysteria over, but they are worth preventing if we can.

Something that is happening all over the internet is this idea that VAERS reports are reports of reactions caused by vaccines.

The reality is VAERS reports are accepted from anyone who has any sort of problem within weeks or months of getting a vaccine. There is no vetting to see if they were actually caused by the vaccine. There is no investigation of any underlying conditions or possible other causes. Someone reports something to VAERS and it goes into the statistics.

This is nothing but an investigational tool. When millions of people get a vaccine, some number of them are going to get GB syndrome, or Bell's Palsy, or blood clots, or any number of other conditions including death. In the vast majority of serious VAERS reports, the numbers of these instances is not statistically different from the numbers in the general population. So to say that VAERS is a list of things caused by the vaccine is inaccurate and any serious scientist knows this.

Anyway gotta run but there is more to discuss when I have more time. Just some things to consider.

Fair. I won't debate the point on gene editing. Those two posts I made there come from someone I highly respect so I shared them.

However, regarding the article I highlighted, there are 18 pretty good sound reasons to be concerned about the vaccines. The people getting them are the guinea pigs. Perhaps everything in the article isn't true, but the vast majority of it is logical arguments - such as Fauci's ties to the patents, the history of the companies that have released them, Geert's warnings etc.

And given none of them have FDA approval, I have reason to doubt them. Simply put, and this is factual - we do not know the long term effects. As you state, we also don't know the long term effects of COVID. So, all of us have to make a personal risk assessment and that should be an individual choice.

As my friend who studied epidemiology is doing, I'm going to wait (and cross my fingers) for the Novavax vaccine.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Again, if you were around in January you couldn’t miss it, unless I guess OAN is your news. We’re the refrigerated trucks fact? You think morgues were overwhelmed but hospitals were OK?

Again, prove it. You're speaking from an anecdotal standpoint. I posted articles here that showed the capacity of hospitals during the surge last year. Didn't happen. I provided evidence. I shared reports that showed a nationwide analysis of hospitals and their subsequent layoffs. Hospitals were never at capacity.

All those mobile hospitals that were erected were never used or scantly used. The Javitz Center....empty. The USS Comfort....not used. In the most hard hit areas. The field hospitals in Michigan, never used.

Yes we "saw" news reports (which we know are doctored) that showed refrigerated trucks. But that is also anecdotal.

Prove your statements you're making as fact. I've supported mine with evidence. Like I did here: https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/the-coronavirus-thread.34219/post-723051

Provide substance or stop opining with your unsubstantiated theories.

 

[Steeltime]

Flog, you cheap c#nt, the "refrigerated trucks" claim was about two things playing out simultaneously. You of course are too stupid and lazy to investigate.

First, the deaths from Covid in certain areas, particularly NYC, produced a death rate higher than normal, and where care for the deceased was now subject to very different protocol based on the risk of infection, so the deceased could no longer simply be sent to a funeral home.

Second, families wanted to have actual funerals for their loved ones and told the authorities to keep their loved ones in the trucks until they could conduct a real funeral. A NYT article noted:

Not every truck is filled to capacity — some can hold up to 100 bodies at a time — and others are empty. But many remain in use, green lights on and generators humming. The trucks will hold the bodies until funeral homes or crematories can accept them. Some families have chosen to keep the bodies of their loved ones there, in long-term storage, until they’re able to conduct burials in their preferred way.

Opinion | ‘Dead Inside’: The Morgue Trucks of New York City

This is what it looks like when thousands of people die and there’s not enough room to store their bodies.

www.nytimes.com

But hey, that traffic man, so keep the Covid panic rolling buddy.

 

[oneforthebus]

THE VACCINES DO NOT STOP TRANSMISSION OR INFECTION

It's presently unknown precisely how effective they are at this and early indications are that they do prevent most transmission and infection but studies are not complete. They do appear extremely effective at preventing serious illness and hospitalization which is pretty important too, no?

PEOPLE ARE CATCHING COVID AFTER BEING FULLY VACCINATED...You get vaccinated and you still catch covid.

This is true, the vaccines are not 100% effective and never claimed to be. Most vaccines have varying levels of effectiveness. People's immune responses to vaccines are different. The idea is to minimize pathways to transmission in the community as much as possible. Illnesses have been virtually eradicated despite vaccines not being 100% effective. Smallpox vaccine for example is about 95% effective but smallpox is virtually eradicated because the percentage of non-immune people globally is very small.

I'm no fan of Fauci but I've been unable to find any credible source for the idea that he owns part of any of the vaccine patents. Best I could find is NIH partially owns the Moderna patent and 4 other NIH scientists have applied for one for a covid vaccine but nothing about Fauci. If you have a source for that I'd like to see it.

I agree with you everyone should assess their own risk factors and make their own decisions. I just hope they will do it based on accurate information and not misinterpretations of things or in some cases, outright misinformation that is going around.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I'm no fan of Fauci but I've been unable to find any credible source for the idea that he owns part of any of the vaccine patents. Best I could find is NIH partially owns the Moderna patent and 4 other NIH scientists have applied for one for a covid vaccine but nothing about Fauci. If you have a source for that I'd like to see it.

This a long, but highly referenced read on his ties to the patents, NIAID, etc. Take it for what it's worth, but it looks incredibly well sourced:

https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8079569/The%20FauciCOVID-19%20Dossier.pdf

 

[oneforthebus]

This a long, but highly referenced read on his ties to the patents, NIAID, etc. Take it for what it's worth, but it looks incredibly well sourced:

https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8079569/The%20FauciCOVID-19%20Dossier.pdf

Ok that is long, I will have to spend some time on it but based on my skimming of the first few pages it appears to be jumping all over the place from topic to topic. Maybe you can point me to the page or pages that indicate Fauci owns any part of the covid vaccine patents.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Ok that is long, I will have to spend some time on it but based on my skimming of the first few pages it appears to be jumping all over the place from topic to topic. Maybe you can point me to the page or pages that indicate Fauci owns any part of the covid vaccine patents.

I haven't found a direct passage that says he owns the patent. What the long article does is discuss the complexities of his associations to research agencies like UNC, how he influenced developments of patents, likely broke laws in filing for CDC patents, his abuse of patent law, and has been enriched by said patents while claiming he donates the proceeds to charities. There's more evidence on the HIV side, less so on the COVID side, but see the history on what was being done as early as the 90s and him directing the agencies to obtain patents (often illegally) on the virus genome or structure despite the Supreme Court ruling you can't patent "nature." Interesting stuff.

I haven't read all of it. Despite the size of the PDF, it's really about 26 pages. All of the rest are tables of reference.

See pages 5 and 6; read all of page 7

Page 10

Using the power of NIAID during the alleged pandemic, Dr. Anthony Fauci actively suppressed proven medical countermeasures used by, and validated in scientific proceedings, that offered alternatives to the products funded by his conspiring entities for which he had provided direct funding and for whom he would receive tangible and intangible benefit.

Page 12

NIAID’s Director, Dr. Anthony Fauci is listed as an inventor on 8 granted U.S. patents. None of them are reported in NIAID, NIH, or GAO reports of active licensing despite the fact that Dr. Fauci reportedly was compelled to get paid for his interleukin-2 “invention” – payments he reportedly donated to an unnamed charity.

24 Of the 21 patents listed in the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) Orange book itemized in the GAO report, none of Dr. Anthony Fauci’s patents are listed. Furthermore, none of the NIAID patents are listed despite clear evidence that Gilead Sciences and Janssen Pharmaceuticals (a division of Johnson & Johnson) have generated over $2 billion annually from sales that were the direct result of NIAID funded science. Missing from the GAO report are 2 patents for Velclade® which has been generating sales in excess of $2.18 billion annually for several years. None of the patents for Yescarta® are listed in the GAO report. None of the Lumoxiti® patents are listed in the GAO report. None of the Kepivance® patents are listed in the GAO report. In violation of 37 USC §410.10 and 35 USC §202(a), over 13 of the 21 patents in the GAO report fail to disclose government interest despite being the direct result of NIH funding.

 

[jitter77]

Hospitals in my area were overwhelmed at certain points especially in Oct / Nov and they are starting to fill again. This comes from excela calls along with people i know who have tried to goto the hospital. One of my housekeepers went to the ER a couple weeks ago (non-covid) and was admitted, but they had to transport her to another hospital cause they didn't have beds. Back at the peak critical care capacity at all 3 excellas in the area were above 100% and they had beds in the hallways of the ERs.