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Covid Vaccine

What does doing the right thing have to do with freedom?

You should get the vaccine because you want to do the right thing. If the government's message just happens to be the same, why are you so resolved to be stubborn?

I mean, all you vaccine deniers are just being stubborn for no sake other than to say "look at me! I'm standing up to our government!" It's asinine. And stupid. And reckless. Both with your health and the people around you.

I mean, I know I'm not going convince dumb people to get smart. You start with a low IQ and don't believe vaccine science that is decades old and has SIGNIFICANT quantitative advantages, how is some guy on a message board going to convince you to change your ways.

Stupid is as stupid does. And for those not getting the vaccine, you ARE being stupid. I mean really, really, really stupid.
Ouch...i guess we'll agree to disagree but It's called living in a free society where we can all think for ourselves, weigh out our options and make our own decisions.

Besides if I don't get the shot why should you give a ****? You're protected, supposedly, if I sneeze near you. I can guarantee I don't give a **** if you get the shot or, don't get the shot or if a deer runs out in front of our cars on the way to work tomorrow and snuffs you or me out. Yep, I'm that cold but I also understand that no matter what we do or don't do today has no effect over what happens tomorrow. When it's your time, it's your time.
 
Which vaccine is the most effective against endless arguments? I'm going with J&J and the blood clots it brings to the party.
I'm going to get the Placebo. All sides will be happy and it's my lot in life to make sure everyone is happy.
 
That's not quite true...Mrna technology has been studied for along time but illnesses these vaccines were being developed for (SARS, MERS, zika) were not as contagious as Covid 19 and mostly died out on their own. Investment in research and development of a drug dries up when it's no longer needed and progress is stopped before clinical trials begin. That doesn't mean the technology was unsuccessful. It takes about a billion dollars to bring a new drug to market so if there is no market for the drug, it doesn't get the investment dollars it needs.

Your theory seems to be that pharma companies are evil and just lying about the safety and efficacy of these vaccines to make money. Knowing people personally who are involved in this industry and in the development of these vaccines I don't believe that, but I know I won't convince people who want to believe that.

And you're right, we don't know the long term effects of either but due to the nature of vaccines and how they work, long term effects from vaccines in general are very rare. They are generally anaphylactic reactions or auto-immune issues that show up early on. And we know that in clinical trials incidence of these were very rare, mostly treatable, and not statistically that much different from the placebo group.

We are over a year into covid infections and know that many people still have effects from it. How long those effects will persist, we don't know. That's true.
Thats impressive. Just out of curiosity, how much did you know about RNA and mRNA nine or ten months ago? I guessing a lot, because you're posting as if you yourself have conducted the studies and saw the evidence yourself. I mean, how else can you be so certain about what is good information from what is misinformation? You don't believe Pfizer would lie or mislead for profit? Why do you think the FDA even exists at all?

Even people in the medical profession rely on the veracity of the studies they read to educate themselves. But in this extremely charged political environment, can we trust anything we read or are being told? In recent years, we KNOW we've been lied to by the FBI, the CIA, the CDC, almost all media, and practically every politician. If you're taking anything you hear or read at face value, and regurgitating it to others as unassailable fact, you are beyond naive.

Only time will tell how safe or unsafe this vaccine will turn out to be. Everyone has the right to weigh the risk/benefit for themselves and make whatever decision they are comfortable with. The bottom line is: if you think the vaccine is effective, they you shouldn't be concerned with what others are doing.

I've never in my life gotten a flu shot and spent the rest of that flu season worried about who else has gotten it and why. I simply got my shot and felt comfortable that I did what was right for me. And that is with the knowledge that flu vaccines have been up to 60% ineffective, I can't imagine how few ***** I'd give about what others were doing if I believed it were 95% effective.
 
Thats impressive. Just out of curiosity, how much did you know about RNA and mRNA nine or ten months ago? I guessing a lot, because you're posting as if you yourself have conducted the studies and saw the evidence yourself. I mean, how else can you be so certain about what is good information from what is misinformation? You don't believe Pfizer would lie or mislead for profit? Why do you think the FDA even exists at all?

Even people in the medical profession rely on the veracity of the studies they read to educate themselves. But in this extremely charged political environment, can we trust anything we read or are being told? In recent years, we KNOW we've been lied to by the FBI, the CIA, the CDC, almost all media, and practically every politician. If you're taking anything you hear or read at face value, and regurgitating it to others as unassailable fact, you are beyond naive.

Only time will tell how safe or unsafe this vaccine will turn out to be. Everyone has the right to weigh the risk/benefit for themselves and make whatever decision they are comfortable with. The bottom line is: if you think the vaccine is effective, they you shouldn't be concerned with what others are doing.

I've never in my life gotten a flu shot and spent the rest of that flu season worried about who else has gotten it and why. I simply got my shot and felt comfortable that I did what was right for me. And that is with the knowledge that flu vaccines have been up to 60% ineffective, I can't imagine how few ***** I'd give about what others were doing if I believed it were 95% effective.
I knew nothing about them 9 or 10 months ago. I am a voracious reader. I try to rely on medical journals and clinical trial data vs. sites with an obvious political agendas. Could they all be bogus? Sure. All any of us can do is read things and judge the sources to the best of our abilities. As I've mentioned I'm fortunate to be very close friends with a couple of people and loosely acquainted with a few more who are in the pharmaceutical industry. Have a sister who is a med mal lawyer, close friend who is a PHD pharma with NIH, another close friend who is a Wall Street analyst who specializes in pharmaceuticals. I'm not trying to impress you all with my friends' credentials' only trying to explain why I do not share the massive distrust of pharmaceutical companies and even government medical research that some of you do. Yes, you have the Faucis who are attention ****** and think it's a good idea to try and influence public policy with half truths rather than just state the clear scientific facts, but by and large my feeling is that the medical research community is composed of brilliant professionals whose mission in life is public health. Do some of them want to, God forbid, make money? Yes of course. Do they care more about making money than they do public health or, in the worst theories, injuring or killing people? Of course not. Is science perfect? No. Is it intentionally manipulated to mislead people? I don't believe so.

Flu shots are imperfect but the chances of being HARMED by them are miniscule. Didn't get one for years myself just because I didn't feel it was really necessary but hit 50, looked at the data and decided the benefits, while imperfect, outweighed the statistically insignificant risks. Of course that means I had to ignore anecdotal evidence like "I never got the flu until I got a flu shot" and look at the actual data. If I really decided I didn't want to get one I could have found dozens of anti-vax sites to provide me with anecdotal evidence that I shouldn't get one. But I wouldn't find any real clinical data to show me that the risk of getting one outweighed the risks of getting the flu.

Get the shot, don't get the shot. I don't care. It's your life. I will continue to relay what I know and have read. You can believe me or not, and believe scientific sources we have trusted for decades or not before they became so politicized. Your choice.
 
If you had a child with cancer or a potentially fatal genetic disease you might feel a bit differently about gene therapy.

Like my close friend who hopes their 20 year old lives long enough with his cystic fibrosis that a gene therapy for his specific mutation is found. Tens of thousands of CF patients have already been saved with gene therapies.

Gene therapy isn't done for ***** and grins, it's to save lives.

You are talking about guaranteed deadly diseases where taking a risky treatment is better than guaranteed death. For people without underlying diseases and under the age of 70, the risk of COVID is very small.
 
You are talking about guaranteed deadly diseases where taking a risky treatment is better than guaranteed death. For people without underlying diseases and under the age of 70, the risk of COVID is very small.
I’m talking about gene therapies here. The covid vaccines do not interact with or alter your genes at all.
 
Get the shot, don't get the shot. I don't care. It's your life. I will continue to relay what I know and have read. You can believe me or not, and believe scientific sources we have trusted for decades or not before they became so politicized. Your choice.
I think this is all anyone who has decided against the vaccine is asking for.

I also know many people in the medical profession, pharmacists (community, clinical, and research), doctors, nurses.... Most have opted for the vaccine, but the number who have chosen not to be vaccinated would likely surprise you, and no one here has standing to call those people stupid (you haven't, but at least one person here has). They are not 'anti-vaxers', they have gotten many vaccinations but have decided to wait on this one. I'm sure they've read all the 'science' (whatever that word has come to mean today), and made a choice they believe is best for them. I've never heard any of them call people who choose to be vaccinated 'crazy', 'reckless', or 'stupid'. A little mutual respect would be nice.

One thing I will say, I've yet to see any 'science' or 'data' to justify vaccinating children.
 
I think this is all anyone who has decided against the vaccine is asking for.

I also know many people in the medical profession, pharmacists (community, clinical, and research), doctors, nurses.... Most have opted for the vaccine, but the number who have chosen not to be vaccinated would likely surprise you, and no one here has standing to call those people stupid (you haven't, but at least one person here has). They are not 'anti-vaxers', they have gotten many vaccinations but have decided to wait on this one. I'm sure they've read all the 'science' (whatever that word has come to mean today), and made a choice they believe is best for them. I've never heard any of them call people who choose to be vaccinated 'crazy', 'reckless', or 'stupid'. A little mutual respect would be nice.

One thing I will say, I've yet to see any 'science' or 'data' to justify vaccinating children.
I haven't called anyone crazy reckless or stupid that I recall. I understand the hesitancy. All I've done is try to correct misinformation.

I'd be interested to see what percentage of medical doctors are hesitant, and to know their reasoning. So far most of the resistance I've seen isn't based on anything I personally have found credible. But I'm not a doctor.

There is a general public interest in more people getting covid vaccines and reaching herd immunity, thought that goal globally seems to be very far away. The more the virus spreads the more chance there is for vaccine and natural immunity resistant variants to occur. Hasn't happened yet as far as we know but if it does we could be in for a world of trouble. So yeah, it's your personal choice but it also does affect all of us to some extent. As far as children at this point it doesn't appear to affect them seriously but if a new variant comes along that's more deadly to them, who knows. I'm not sure if herd immunity is even achievable at this point, but I can dream.

I selfishly really want life to get back to normal, and I also don't want any of yinz to get really sick or die. So that's my other interest.
 
What does doing the right thing have to do with freedom?

You should get the vaccine because you want to do the right thing. If the government's message just happens to be the same, why are you so resolved to be stubborn?

I mean, all you vaccine deniers are just being stubborn for no sake other than to say "look at me! I'm standing up to our government!" It's asinine. And stupid. And reckless. Both with your health and the people around you.

I mean, I know I'm not going convince dumb people to get smart. You start with a low IQ and don't believe vaccine science that is decades old and has SIGNIFICANT quantitative advantages, how is some guy on a message board going to convince you to change your ways.

Stupid is as stupid does. And for those not getting the vaccine, you ARE being stupid. I mean really, really, really stupid.
You're a retarded condescending ******* lemming. No one who is hesitant about getting vaxxed against what is basically a run of the mill cold or flu is grand standing. "It's the right thing to do" is the mating call of sheep in servitude. Perhaps it's you who should open your mongoloid eyes.
 
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As far as children at this point it doesn't appear to affect them seriously but if a new variant comes along that's more deadly to them, who knows.
We can play what if all day, which is exactly the game plan of those pushing the vaccine the loudest, with absolutely no factual data to support their opinions.
What we are seeing is a virus that is more politicized than it is deadly, where one group will continue to mask for the rest of their lives so as to not appear to represent a
particular political party.

We fear the mob so much that common sense is now an afterthought.
 
If you had a child with cancer or a potentially fatal genetic disease you might feel a bit differently about gene therapy.

Like my close friend who hopes their 20 year old lives long enough with his cystic fibrosis that a gene therapy for his specific mutation is found. Tens of thousands of CF patients have already been saved with gene therapies.

Gene therapy isn't done for ***** and grins, it's to save lives.
No, I wouldn't. It's wrong. It would hurt like Hell to see my kids suffer but God made them they way they are and they will serve his purpose.

And if you dont think Gene Therapy will result in weaponization of humans or ordering your child like an automobile...I want a boy, tall, with green eyes...well, bless your heart.
 

Eric Clapton Blames ‘Propaganda’ for ‘Disastrous’ Covid Vaccine Experience​

“My hands and feet were either frozen, numb or burning, and pretty much useless for two weeks,” guitarist writes of reaction to vaccine. “I feared I would never play again”​

By
DANIEL KREPS

LONDON, ENGLAND - MARCH 03: Eric Clapton performs on stage during Music For The Marsden 2020 at The O2 Arena on March 03, 2020 in London, England. (Photo by Gareth Cattermole/Gareth Cattermole/Getty Images)

Eric Clapton
Gareth Cattermole/Getty Images
Eric Clapton detailed his “disastrous” health experience after receiving the Covid-19 vaccine and blamed “the propaganda” for overstating the safety of the vaccine in a letter the guitarist shared with an architect/anti-lockdown activist.
Clapton previously shared his thoughts on the Covid-19 shutdown when he appeared on Van Morrison’s anti-lockdown song “Stand and Deliver” in December 2020; two months later, in February, Clapton received his first of two AstraZeneca vaccinations, he wrote in his letter to Robin Monotti Graziadei, who shared the letter on his Telegram with the guitarist’s permission. (Rolling Stone has confirmed the authenticity of the letter. A rep for Clapton did not immediately respond to a request for comment.)

Hear Eric Clapton, Van Morrison's Anti-Lockdown Song 'Stand and Deliver'​



“I took the first jab of AZ and straight away had severe reactions which lasted ten days. I recovered eventually and was told it would be twelve weeks before the second one…,” Clapton wrote.
“About six weeks later I was offered and took the second AZ shot, but with a little more knowledge of the dangers. Needless to say the reactions were disastrous, my hands and feet were either frozen, numb or burning, and pretty much useless for two weeks, I feared I would never play again, (I suffer with peripheral neuropathy and should never have gone near the needle.) But the propaganda said the vaccine was safe for everyone…”
 
I knew nothing about them 9 or 10 months ago. I am a voracious reader. I try to rely on medical journals and clinical trial data vs. sites with an obvious political agendas. Could they all be bogus? Sure. All any of us can do is read things and judge the sources to the best of our abilities. As I've mentioned I'm fortunate to be very close friends with a couple of people and loosely acquainted with a few more who are in the pharmaceutical industry. Have a sister who is a med mal lawyer, close friend who is a PHD pharma with NIH, another close friend who is a Wall Street analyst who specializes in pharmaceuticals. I'm not trying to impress you all with my friends' credentials' only trying to explain why I do not share the massive distrust of pharmaceutical companies and even government medical research that some of you do. Yes, you have the Faucis who are attention ****** and think it's a good idea to try and influence public policy with half truths rather than just state the clear scientific facts, but by and large my feeling is that the medical research community is composed of brilliant professionals whose mission in life is public health. Do some of them want to, God forbid, make money? Yes of course. Do they care more about making money than they do public health or, in the worst theories, injuring or killing people? Of course not. Is science perfect? No. Is it intentionally manipulated to mislead people? I don't believe so.

Flu shots are imperfect but the chances of being HARMED by them are miniscule. Didn't get one for years myself just because I didn't feel it was really necessary but hit 50, looked at the data and decided the benefits, while imperfect, outweighed the statistically insignificant risks. Of course that means I had to ignore anecdotal evidence like "I never got the flu until I got a flu shot" and look at the actual data. If I really decided I didn't want to get one I could have found dozens of anti-vax sites to provide me with anecdotal evidence that I shouldn't get one. But I wouldn't find any real clinical data to show me that the risk of getting one outweighed the risks of getting the flu.

Get the shot, don't get the shot. I don't care. It's your life. I will continue to relay what I know and have read. You can believe me or not, and believe scientific sources we have trusted for decades or not before they became so politicized. Your choice.

While I applaud you for trying to find as much credible information as you can and listening to friends/family with tremendous credentials, the most brilliant minds in the world on this particular subject seem to be learning new things every day and are fairly split on what's happening with the virus re: origin, mutations and particularly the vaccine's efficacy in even less than a year's time. What I'm saying is they don't have all the answers because this is relatively new territory for even them.

With all of your reading, you likely know about it already, but I would suggest a non-profit, peer-reviewed academic journal such as Science Magazine (sciencemag.org) if you're looking for reliable information without a political agenda. It's the journal of the AAAS and widely considered the world's top scientific journal. The NIH and CDC are federal agencies of the U.S. Government, so I tend to have my suspicions when I hear everything is hunky dory. We can all agree to disagree there. And flu shots are an entirely different animal. Yes, medical advancement has grown leaps and bounds; but influenza has also been around and studied for millennium. It was the 1918 Pandemic that initiated the search for a flu vaccine, and that was approved in 1945, almost 3 decades later. But most importantly - to this day, it's efficacy rate is still anywhere between 40% and 60% last I checked.

I'm neither a clinician or scientist, but I worked for a Microbiologist at Caltech for years who's collaborated with David Baltimore, Professor of Biology and Virology who won the Nobel prize in 1975 (2 years before I was born) for discovering Reverse Transcription in RNA/DNA and creator of the Baltimore classification. So in other words, I have a bit of a point of reference in this discussion. Anyone who tells someone they're dumb for being leery of a new vaccine when typical vaccine approval usually takes a decade with the (typical) 4 phase trial and so many other hurdles is ignorant and arrogant IMO.

It's incredible what they (the scientific/medical community around the world) have been able to do here, but let's take a step back and remember we're all trying to understand this craziness as pretty ordinary people. One thing I did learn from some of these scientists though - never think you have all the answers; question, research and test everything - and typically expect the unexpected. And one thing that annoys the **** outta me - we have remarkable immune systems and ways of keeping ourselves as healthy as possible, and you never hear a single thing emphasizing that.

I agree, it is everybody's life and everybody's choice. Make the most informed and well-thought out decision for yourself and fellow human beings. And with that, done discussing this.
 
No, I wouldn't. It's wrong. It would hurt like Hell to see my kids suffer but God made them they way they are and they will serve his purpose.

And if you dont think Gene Therapy will result in weaponization of humans or ordering your child like an automobile...I want a boy, tall, with green eyes...well, bless your heart.
Sorry Badcat I have to call BS on the idea that you'd sit back and watch your child suffer and die because of your ideological opposition to gene therapy. At least I hope you wouldn't.
 
Well, you just basically admitted how ignorant you are with that post.

But if you want to be stubborn AND ignorant, go right ahead. You will get sick someday from Covid. It will never go away. We will have outbreaks and some winters will be worse than others. Just like influenza. And who the **** knows what you "roll" when you get it. Guess you want to live dangerously at the expense of the rest of society a bit.

I think that is selfish and dumb. And I'm not going to fall for you conspiracy bullshit and pander to your "opinion". You are wrong on this one. 100%.
Hmm.

 
What does doing the right thing have to do with freedom?

You should get the vaccine because you want to do the right thing. If the government's message just happens to be the same, why are you so resolved to be stubborn?

I mean, all you vaccine deniers are just being stubborn for no sake other than to say "look at me! I'm standing up to our government!" It's asinine. And stupid. And reckless. Both with your health and the people around you.

I mean, I know I'm not going convince dumb people to get smart. You start with a low IQ and don't believe vaccine science that is decades old and has SIGNIFICANT quantitative advantages, how is some guy on a message board going to convince you to change your ways.

Stupid is as stupid does. And for those not getting the vaccine, you ARE being stupid. I mean really, really, really stupid.
No I am saying I won't take a barely tested experimental vaccine because I did that before while in the army and it caused issues with my body that cut short my military career. You do you man and more power to you. Me personally I vowed never to be a lab rat ever again. Stupid is as stupid does and taking an untested vaccine for a disease that has a .03% mortality rate is stupid. I have had the Wuhan Virus and it is not a world ending plague.
 
I have had the Wuhan Virus and it is not a world ending plague.

In all fairness, I don't know if anything can actually kill an Ogre - minus it potentially suffocating in it's own pile of sub-feces.

And in actuality, I think the scientific community is still questioning the veracity of that one:

iu
 
Sorry Badcat I have to call BS on the idea that you'd sit back and watch your child suffer and die because of your ideological opposition to gene therapy. At least I hope you wouldn't.
We'll never know. My kids are 23 and 20 now, and make their own decisions. But, I'm a man of strong conviction and faith, and i truly believe that had my children been diagnosed with a disease that Gene Therapy would help in some way, I would not have elected to do so. God made us who we are and we all serve a purpose.
 
Update. My sister is doing much better as long as she is on steroids. She will have to take them for sometime between 6 months and 5 years. They just don't know yet. Doctors are certain it was a reaction from the vaccine.
 
Update. My sister is doing much better as long as she is on steroids. She will have to take them for sometime between 6 months and 5 years. They just don't know yet. Doctors are certain it was a reaction from the vaccine.
And that is precisely why I will not be taking this vaccine.
 
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