Covid Vaccine

[Superman]

Precisely, one side which wants to save lives and another that doesn't. Thanks for playing.

and your side wants everyone to lock down, lock the doors, pull the shades down, turn the light off on the front porch, mask up, get butt swabs, hide in the closet under blankies, shiver and shake until SOMEONE tells you things are safe and a-ok.

**** the draconian pure lock down rules. it has been proven that does not work. not at all. people have quite literally died from that policy.

 

[Steeltime]

Precisely, one side which wants to save lives and another that doesn't. Thanks for playing.

Tibilo's response summed up:

 

[Hines57]

Looks like the JNJ shot is a royal **** up. Good job rushing out that 3rd place finisher

 

[Tibs]

Long-term vaccine effects include:

- being alive

Ask your doctor if the COVID-19 vaccine is right for you.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Precisely, one side which wants to save lives and another that doesn't. Thanks for playing.

Let me help you here, and I honestly hesitate responding to the troll bait.

One side wants to control lives and another realizes we are intelligent enough to control our own.

 

[Tibs]

One side wants to control lives and another realizes we are intelligent enough to control our own.

Good luck with that, and I mean that sincerely. Natural selection can be a *****. Chart your own course, if you insist.

 

[Tibs]

 

[oneforthebus]

"You're equally bad" is the ultimate Solomonic decision. Problem is that generally in an argument, one side has the better position based on facts. Modern liberal, "equity," every opinion matters education has lessened our ability to see that for two sides of an argument, the fact that both sides are right on some points and wrong on others is not the issue - the two sides take a differing view and we need to make intelligent decisions as to which side prevails.



This is a prime example of the "both sides are right, both sides are wrong" level of reasoning. Vaccines are generally quite safe and effective. Okay. Agree on that. But does that mean we just inoculate everybody, no matter age or prior infection - that's the government edict right now?

Even if vaccines are generally "very safe (they are)" if the population under age 18 has a miniscule risk from the lab-made Chinese flu, and the incidence of adverse side effects such as myocarditis are significant then simply saying, "Oh, but vaccines are generally very safe" means nothing. This vaccine to minors has side effects that seem to outweigh the risk of getting the lab-made Chinese flu. Also, forcing minors to take a vaccine after they have already recovered from the lab-made Chinese flu and have natural immunity is insanity.

Yet schools are ordering students with natural immunity to take the vaccine. That is outrageous. And those who point out that undeniable fact are pulled off Twitter and Fakebook.

The "oh, you're both at fault" line of reasoning fails under those circumstances.



But if I point out that data are distorted, somebody is going to reply, "Vaccines are very safe" and "you are both wrong."



Right now, I have zero trust in the Federal government. None. They lied about Iraq, got us into a bullshit war, displaced the one nation that was holding Iran in check, lied about Libya, lied about the "Arab spring," created a clusterfuck in the Middle East, spent hundreds of billions on their mistakes, lied about the origins of the lab-made Chinese flu, lied about the number killed by the lab-made Chinese flu, are lying about the efficacy of natural immunity, are lying about the need for children to take the vaccine, are lying about the prevalence of side effects in patients under 18 who take the vaccine.

Fool me 194 times, shame on you. Fool me that 195th time, shame on me.

Except I never said "You're equally bad". I'm frustrated at the politicization of a debate that should be about nothing but science. And if you don't think it's happening on both sides you're not paying attention.

You pointed out what your side (which, as a lifelong conservative is also my "side") views as distorted, meanwhile there is also all kind of crazy anti-vax bullshit out there now that for some reason the far right has decided to embrace. This is harmful to the credibility of real factual concerns about the vaccines, extremely rare as they are. VAERS reports are mischaracterized as cause and effect every day. A few adverse events out of millions of vaccines with no causal effect even confirmed. Conspiracy theories and this idea that somehow this is all some nefarious plot to poison people or make money abound.

Actual people have, and will, die who could have been saved with vaccines. The many lies and distortions of the left are also responsible for the mistrust of science. I haven't sat down and added up and weighed out exactly who's more or less at fault.

Every single vaccine ever created has rare adverse effects. Covid has adverse effects in people aside from just death. Natural immunity should it appears be seen as equal to a vaccine.

You can't claim to be on the side of science and ignore any science that doesn't fit your narrative.

Medicine is always a balance of risk vs. benefit. Always has been, always will be. That is being lost in the sea of political argument.

 

[Tibs]

Perfectly stated, OFTB, kudos to you.

 

[Steelr4evr]

this is a dry run at setting the precedent that if something is declared a health emergency then that pesky Constitution no longer applies. One can get the feeling that this is just the opening act.

No kidding. This went from a few weeks of flatten the curve to 1.5+ years. Because they love power and it gained them full control.


Sorry I've Declared it an Emergency. All rights are suspended until I feel we're 100 % safe from cars crashing in intersections

 

[Stainless]

You realize that basically every medical facility in America told doctors and nurses to get the vaccine or get fired, right? And that hospitals and medical clinics will not allow the unvaccinated to work at the facilities?

So saying 96% of doctors are vaccinated is like saying 96% of the people at the DMV have matters related to vehicle registration, driver's licenses, ID cards, change of address, accident reports or DMV hearings.

I guess I did not realize, but I would be lying if I claimed to have given it any thought. I believe this is when we're supposed to ask for substantiation. I didn’t do much digging, but all I've really found are a couple of fairly recent articles, neither of which seems to fully support your assertion, and depending upon one’s point of view it might be argued that they contradict your statements. A lot of it probably depends upon timeframes and how you define "basically every medical facility in America".

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/should-hospitals-mandate-covid-19-vaccination
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/resear...ls-start-requiring-workers-to-get-covid-shots

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Precisely, one side which wants to save lives and another that doesn't. Thanks for playing.

Translation: I, Tibor, only care about lives lost due to COVID. I don't care about lives lost due to lockdowns or lives destroyed because of them.

Like BLM, only some lives matter to you and your side.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Long-term vaccine effects include:

- being alive

Ask your doctor if the COVID-19 vaccine is right for you.

Tell that to the 149.9 Million Americans who've had COVID and lived. Didn't need a vaccine to survive.

You're all-or-nothing approach is myopic and ignorant.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I guess I did not realize, but I would be lying if I claimed to have given it any thought. I believe this is when we're supposed to ask for substantiation. I didn’t do much digging, but all I've really found are a couple of fairly recent articles, neither of which seems to fully support your assertion, and depending upon one’s point of view it might be argued that they contradict your statements. A lot of it probably depends upon timeframes and how you define "basically every medical facility in America".

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/should-hospitals-mandate-covid-19-vaccination
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/resear...ls-start-requiring-workers-to-get-covid-shots

Oh no, we are definitely moving to mandated vaccinations in health care. The Houston case showed us that.

Judge dismisses lawsuit by Houston hospital employees over Covid-19 vaccinations

The lead plaintiff, Jennifer Bridges, likened her employer's vaccination requirement to forced medical experimentation during the Holocaust.

www.nbcnews.com

It would appear, as of now, those medical institutions that require the vaccines won't be stopped.

 

[Troglodyte]

Can you supply a link?

EDIT:

Oh I found it.

Yeah, not buying it. It was a survey. Of 301 physicians. Who were willing to take the WebMD poll. As IC said, 985,000 practicing physicians exist in the USA. 0.0003 took the poll.

That is in no way indicative of the medical population.

https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2021-06/physician-vaccination-study-topline-report.pdf

Back in January, CBS used this poll of 2,500 physicians which found

"Surgo polled more than 2,500 U.S. health care workers to assess their comfort in getting vaccinated. At the time of the survey, administered from December 17 to 30, 53% of respondents had been offered the vaccine. Of those workers, 15%, or almost 200 people polled, said they had refused to take the vaccine, with many claiming there is insufficient evidence the treatments are effective, despite assurances otherwise by federal and state health agencies and major pharmaceutical companies.
Another 24% cited personal safety concerns, while 16% said they thought the approval process was too rushed."

And if doctors are saying this....I'm not buying they would all simultaneously get the vaccines.

Top Doctors Speculate a Reversal on COVID Vaccine Safety Could Be Coming

Writing in an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal, UCLA Geffen School of Medicine Doctor Joseph Lapado and Yale School of Public Health Doctor Harvey Risch warn there are legitimate

townhall.com

Yeah, healthcare workers aren’t necessarily doctors. The difference between a doctor and a medical assistant is 10-14 years of college and residency.

And margin of error goes both ways. If 300 isn’t a large enough sample size, it’s also possible 96% is too low.

 

[Tibs]

I don't care about lives lost due to lockdowns or lives destroyed because of them.

What on earth does any of *that* have to do with vaccines? Answer: nothing. When you're spinning in a downward spiral, constantly grasping at straws, you reach a point where you've lost your bearings on true north. Literally nothing makes sense anymore. It's an all-in, profuse, sweat-drenched circular argument leading nowhere fast.

 

[Steelworth]

Good luck with that, and I mean that sincerely. Natural selection can be a *****. Chart your own course, if you insist.

If you have to go out of your way to claim you mean something (which you so often do), you really don't.

Another one to chalk up as a reason nobody can stand you here. As you would say, kudos to you.

 

[Steeltime]

Except I never said "You're equally bad". I'm frustrated at the politicization of a debate that should be about nothing but science. And if you don't think it's happening on both sides you're not paying attention.

You may not have meant that, but actually wrote, "People have staked out their sides, embrace any crumb of evidence that supports their chosen viewpoint, and ignore anything that doesn't. On both sides. It's ridiculous." So when I read you to be saying "a plague on both your houses," I had a reason for doing so.

You pointed out what your side (which, as a lifelong conservative is also my "side") views as distorted, meanwhile there is also all kind of crazy anti-vax bullshit out there now that for some reason the far right has decided to embrace.

What crazy anti-vax bullshit do you believe the "far right" is advancing? The questions I encounter are uniformly reasonable - why should I take the vaccine if I recovered from the Chinese flu and have natural immunity? Why should I take the vaccine if I am in the low-risk group and have damn near zero risk from the lab-made Chinese flu? Why should those under 18 take the vaccine, given the microscopic threat the lab-made Chinese flu poses? Why aren't those in charge being more honest about negative results from the vaccine? Why was I told to wear a mask after getting the vaccine? Why am I subject to restrictions in terms of travel and work if I took the vaccine?

This is harmful to the credibility of real factual concerns about the vaccines, extremely rare as they are. VAERS reports are mischaracterized as cause and effect every day.

I have never done so. VAERS is a database open to the public. The reports link taking the vaccine to symptoms or effects. Correlation does not equal causation.

However, blowing off what is reported on VAERS is more disingenuous. Do we think even 30% of post-vaccine problems are reported? Have you tried to access the VAERS system? ******* thing is a government-run maze, as expected.

A few adverse events out of millions of vaccines with no causal effect even confirmed. Conspiracy theories and this idea that somehow this is all some nefarious plot to poison people or make money abound.

What the ...? Seriously, what are you talking about? Nobody on this forum as far as I am aware made any claim remotely close to those. You're just engaging in strawman, like Tibilo. "Healthy 18-year old and don't want the vaccine? I guess you hope your parents die."

Actual people have, and will, die who could have been saved with vaccines. The many lies and distortions of the left are also responsible for the mistrust of science. I haven't sat down and added up and weighed out exactly who's more or less at fault.

Not my point. Re-read what I wrote. I explained that simply saying, "You both have errors" avoids the question that needs answering - who's right? One side has a better argument. This is not a matter of keeping score of mistakes on the question of the vaccine and instead determining if my position is correct.

By the way, I spelled out exactly what my position is. As usual, those on the other side simply bleat, and preach, and finger-wag and don't actually tell me where they disagree and why.

You can't claim to be on the side of science and ignore any science that doesn't fit your narrative.

Really? Like what? Give me a specific point I can address. These empty, factless claims - "You are anti-vaccine," "You want to kill people" - are meaningless.

Medicine is always a balance of risk vs. benefit. Always has been, always will be. That is being lost in the sea of political argument.

Uhhh, no, the opposite is true. I went through my position as to who should take the vaccine and who probably should not, using the cost-benefit scale. That moron Tibilo responded, "Oh, you want to kill people."

Wow, got me. Yes, I am rooting for genocide, mass death. I want to operate massive crematory ovens. That is my goal in life. Here, let me turn it around:

Tibilo, you want to allow a billion rapists and murderers to walk across the southern border to rape then murder every American.

Okay, now he's out of the discussion. At this rate, the message board is going to be pretty vacant.

 

[Steeltime]

Good luck with that, and I mean that sincerely. Natural selection can be a *****. Chart your own course, if you insist.

The next bleating sheep parroting the idiotic statement about "natural selection" and a vaccine should be punched in the face. Some moronic leftist web site published that phrase and it is now repeated by every mindless, droning leftist zombie in the nation.

No, the vaccine does not have anything - literally, nothing, not a single factor, characteristic or trait of any type - to do with "natural selection." Know how we know this without any goddamn research? It's in the name - NATURAL selection. "Natural," as in nature.

"Natural selection" is actually the process by which nature, not man, picks who survives the lab-made Chinese flu and who doesn't. No vaccine = natural selection.

Get it?

 

[oneforthebus]

You may not have meant that, but actually wrote, "People have staked out their sides, embrace any crumb of evidence that supports their chosen viewpoint, and ignore anything that doesn't. On both sides. It's ridiculous." So when I read you to be saying "a plague on both your houses," I had a reason for doing so.



What crazy anti-vax bullshit do you believe the "far right" is advancing? The questions I encounter are uniformly reasonable - why should I take the vaccine if I recovered from the Chinese flu and have natural immunity? Why should I take the vaccine if I am in the low-risk group and have damn near zero risk from the lab-made Chinese flu? Why should those under 18 take the vaccine, given the microscopic threat the lab-made Chinese flu poses? Why aren't those in charge being more honest about negative results from the vaccine? Why was I told to wear a mask after getting the vaccine? Why am I subject to restrictions in terms of travel and work if I took the vaccine?



I have never done so. VAERS is a database open to the public. The reports link taking the vaccine to symptoms or effects. Correlation does not equal causation.

However, blowing off what is reported on VAERS is more disingenuous. Do we think even 30% of post-vaccine problems are reported? Have you tried to access the VAERS system? ******* thing is a government-run maze, as expected.



What the ...? Seriously, what are you talking about? Nobody on this forum as far as I am aware made any claim remotely close to those. You're just engaging in strawman, like Tibilo. "Healthy 18-year old and don't want the vaccine? I guess you hope your parents die."



Not my point. Re-read what I wrote. I explained that simply saying, "You both have errors" avoids the question that needs answering - who's right? One side has a better argument. This is not a matter of keeping score of mistakes on the question of the vaccine and instead determining if my position is correct.

By the way, I spelled out exactly what my position is. As usual, those on the other side simply bleat, and preach, and finger-wag and don't actually tell me where they disagree and why.



Really? Like what? Give me a specific point I can address. These empty, factless claims - "You are anti-vaccine," "You want to kill people" - are meaningless.



Uhhh, no, the opposite is true. I went through my position as to who should take the vaccine and who probably should not, using the cost-benefit scale. That moron Tibilo responded, "Oh, you want to kill people."

Wow, got me. Yes, I am rooting for genocide, mass death. I want to operate massive crematory ovens. That is my goal in life. Here, let me turn it around:

Tibilo, you want to allow a billion rapists and murderers to walk across the southern border to rape then murder every American.

Okay, now he's out of the discussion. At this rate, the message board is going to be pretty vacant.

I don't know why you're addressing me as if my comments were directed at you specifically. They were not.

 

[Steeltime]

I don't know why you're addressing me as if my comments were directed at you specifically. They were not.

Okay. You quoted my post above yours, made comments that were directed at what I wrote, so it seemed reasonable to conclude you were discussing the points I raised.

Also, please feel free to answer my questions more generally - what crackpot theories are you talking about? If some oddball speculation never mentioned on this forum, then who cares?

 

[oneforthebus]

Okay. You quoted my post above yours, made comments that were directed at what I wrote, so it seemed reasonable to conclude you were discussing the points I raised.

Also, please feel free to answer my questions more generally - what crackpot theories are you talking about? If some oddball speculation never mentioned on this forum, then who cares?

I responded to one inaccurate comment you made about me making an equivalence. The rest of my comments are general observations of the state of this debate in society today. I have no desire to delve into the minutiae anymore because it's generally pointless for the reasons I described.

 

[Steelworth]

Get it?

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

Oh no, we are definitely moving to mandated vaccinations in health care. The Houston case showed us that.

Judge dismisses lawsuit by Houston hospital employees over Covid-19 vaccinations

The lead plaintiff, Jennifer Bridges, likened her employer's vaccination requirement to forced medical experimentation during the Holocaust.

www.nbcnews.com

It would appear, as of now, those medical institutions that require the vaccines won't be stopped.

My company is moving to it. Imo NOT because of safety and health but only because of marketing. We are X% vaccinated come to us. That is a selling point to folks, and I will agree with it to an extent BUT it is being sold as something much much different. Seems similar to the Govt approach.

 

[IndySteel]

TimSteelersfan & Steeltime seem hellbent on having the *maximum* number of casualties from this worldwide pandemic. They're going out of their way, bending over backwards to spread as much misleading information as they can, to get as many Americans killed as possible. So strange to see the innerworkings of a death cult, but here we are.

edit- had to add Steeltime too. He works too hard, logs too many hours, to not get a shout out here for his efforts. Tim & Steeltime truly are partners in crime, wishing as much death & destruction as possible, upon the good people of this land. Take a bow, gents.

You piece of **** commie ************. That accusation is baseless and made up, just like all of your other libtard lies. You truly are a clueless troll.