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Covid Vaccine

Tim Steelersfan said:
I don't get it either. For the past 18 months, there seems to be a habit of repeating the same failed approaches, would you not agree? Despite studies showing those approaches failed....

Masking did not work.
Lockdowns did not work.

Those actions cost us all dearly however.

Now, we are seeing the vaccines' efficacies fading. We are currently going through a rapid rise in cases. The vaccines aren't preventing spread despite the majority of Americans being vaccinated.

So what is the response? More masking. More lockdowns. More vaccine mandates.

What's the old saying? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

18 months in, the same tried and unproven approaches are being used...AGAIN...yet we appear nowhere closer to stopping this rise in cases using these methodologies.

For SOME reason, "they" keep repeating the same practices. You answer...why?
Click to expand...
To Tibs point about 100% certainty…

People still die in car accidents, and get concussions and skin cancer. Should we get rid of seatbelts, helmets and sunscreen?

That is essentially your argument regarding masks and vaccines.
 
Troglodyte said:
To Tibs point about 100% certainty…

People still die in car accidents, and get concussions and skin cancer. Should we get rid of seatbelts, helmets and sunscreen?

That is essentially your argument regarding masks and vaccines.
Click to expand...
Which of seatbelts, helmets and sunscreen has the US, or any government, asked of employers to make mandatory for their employees?
 
oneforthebus said:
this is where you guys lose me.

Do you really think Joe Biden or someone else has the magic vaccine that could cure all this and is just hiding it from everyone? Cause making Pfizer rich is more important to them than anything else?

The person and/or company and/or government agency that stops this pandemic will have accolades and power beyond their wildest dreams. But you guys think they'd just really rather keep it going. For what? They get their jollies from seeing us wear masks? They want to tank the travel and tourism and restaurant industries because it helps them how?

Or what?

I don't get it.
Click to expand...
Let me try to explain the situation that is annoying me.
operation warp speed gave a billion dollars to moderna and afterwards Pfizer threw a metric ton of lobbyists to get a similar deal that hinged on them getting a billion to have a vaccine out by the end of the year… but a bunch of other companies producing vaccines were given pre orders by our government to cover all their bases

these companies were not given the same kind of money to rush testing and production and because of that they were going to take a few more months to get out

these vaccines have now or will by the end of the month concluded the emergency criteria for clinical testing, but the government has commented that they may simply send their stockpile ordered overseas…

the rationale to this is that the mrna ones are hard to store and administer and much more expensive overall so other countries might have a harder time with them… its why many other countries use the one vaccine banned here because it was a lot more dangerous for blood clotting … or J&J… which is a safer version….

Acouple of the companies have even expressed that they won’t be seeking approval from the US because this administration is centered on the MRNA stiff and they don’t think there will be a market….

Some of us believe the best thing to do is pivot from the more experimental biotech that the first four utilized… MRNA and altered viruses are probably the wave of the future but too much is unknown right now

lets utilize these next generation vaccines… the science says they are more robust against mutations and traditionally longer lasting than what these early ones may be showing…

instead the administration seems hell bent on doubling down on Pfizer particularly….
 
Mask mandates are a different story.. against aerosols the masks were are using aren’t going to filter enough to matter in closed environments, but they make people feel better…

This government has a long-standing history of pr moves that are fundamentally useless but sound useful….
Duck and cover being the most well known, but plenty of others are out there as well… hell after the Ebola outbreak the cdc basically quietly came out and said the stuff they were telling people during it was incorrect and was basically just to prevent panicking… it absolutely was air transmitted…

sometimes policy isn’t based on scientific facts… its just there to show the public something tangible to make them feel better… this is likely one of those

I mean it only hurts in rare cases and is mostly harmless
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
Last year, on 60 Minutes I believe, an epidemiologist was being interviewed. An attractive, older, gray haired lady. The interviewer asked a question about the virus, how many will get it, etc. She smiled a grandmotherly smile and said "It's coming for all of us. We will all get it. It's just a matter of when."

Just like every one of us have gotten a cold or the flu. If you haven't gotten it, you will. Vaccines or not.
Click to expand...

This is what I tell everyone all the time. You're going to get it flu shot or not.It was going to run its course the moment China left hundreds of thousands to travel the world from Wuhan.


I'm not going to sweat it at all. Give me a better choice of flu shot and I'll take it. Just so everyone shuts the **** up and goes on with their life.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Yes, absolutely. It's a sign of control and obedience to the government. Sort of the American burka. YouTube took the video down but early on in a presser with Dr. Deborah Birx the first words out of her mouth were, "Look at the control we have!" Note that our betters at Pelosi's fundraiser and Bomma's birthday party no one is wearing a mask.


They want to destroy the middle class, yes. A large and strong middle class does not need what the Democrats are selling. People who become dependent on the government do. For example, the Dems hate private property (except their private property). So we have bans on evictions for not paying rent due to the pandemic but no bans on banks foreclosing on the landlords' rental properties when the landlords can't pay their mortgages because they're not collecting rent. Presto, the government will gladly take those off the banks' hands and turn them into public housing that the government controls. Canadian PM Trudeau recently said "By 2030 you will have no property and be happy."
Click to expand...

So Ron you're seriously telling me they are purposely hawking less effective vaccines and holding back more effective ones in order to be able to shut down and destroy the middle class.

You're a smart guy, I have a hard time thinking you actually believe this.
 
Troglodyte said:
To Tibs point about 100% certainty…

People still die in car accidents, and get concussions and skin cancer. Should we get rid of seatbelts, helmets and sunscreen?

That is essentially your argument regarding masks and vaccines.
Click to expand...
No, the masks don't work. Period. It has been shown over and over and over again but it is a political thing now. I am all in favor of voluntary vaccines I am totally against masking as it is done currently because it is likely more harmful than good. This virus is never ever going away we can't live our lives in fear. Get the vaccine if you want but move on.
 
Troglodyte said:
To Tibs point about 100% certainty…

People still die in car accidents, and get concussions and skin cancer. Should we get rid of seatbelts, helmets and sunscreen?

That is essentially your argument regarding masks and vaccines.
Click to expand...

No, Tim's point is that the measures imposed by the government DO NOT WORK. Closing schools - no reason to do so. Ordering masks - no reason to do so. It is the equivalent of making drivers put a bobble head in the car to prevent or ameliorate car crashes.
 
madinsomniac said:
Let me try to explain the situation that is annoying me.
operation warp speed gave a billion dollars to moderna and afterwards Pfizer threw a metric ton of lobbyists to get a similar deal that hinged on them getting a billion to have a vaccine out by the end of the year… but a bunch of other companies producing vaccines were given pre orders by our government to cover all their bases

these companies were not given the same kind of money to rush testing and production and because of that they were going to take a few more months to get out

these vaccines have now or will by the end of the month concluded the emergency criteria for clinical testing, but the government has commented that they may simply send their stockpile ordered overseas…

the rationale to this is that the mrna ones are hard to store and administer and much more expensive overall so other countries might have a harder time with them… its why many other countries use the one vaccine banned here because it was a lot more dangerous for blood clotting … or J&J… which is a safer version….

Acouple of the companies have even expressed that they won’t be seeking approval from the US because this administration is centered on the MRNA stiff and they don’t think there will be a market….

Some of us believe the best thing to do is pivot from the more experimental biotech that the first four utilized… MRNA and altered viruses are probably the wave of the future but too much is unknown right now

lets utilize these next generation vaccines… the science says they are more robust against mutations and traditionally longer lasting than what these early ones may be showing…

instead the administration seems hell bent on doubling down on Pfizer particularly….
Click to expand...

I suggest to you that if a more effective vaccine is found and passes clinical trials it will go into use. Here and elsewhere. Time will tell. One of the reasons they are talking about shipping them overseas is because vaccine demand is so low here. If people want it I'm guessing they'll be able to get it.

One of the main reasons mRna were first was because they'd already been studying the technology for decades. And because they don't take a whole year or more to produce like many traditional vaccines.

The current vaccines have been put into hundreds of millions of arms. We know they are safe except in extremely rare instances (even if you took every VAERS report as a factual instance of vaccine harm it's still far less harmful and deadly than covid) and we know they are effective at reducing infection and extremely effective at preventing serious illness, hospitalization and death. Yes, some of you will say long term effects. We don't know the long term effects of anything for certain until it's been in use long term. That's true for every drug or medical treatment ever made. Including these new vaccines you're talking about. How many people will be hospitalized or dead from covid while we wait to find out? How many people will have long term effects from covid?

I look back on those days when Trump announced Operation Warp Speed and we all were so hopeful, we finally get something that makes a dent in this disease and now everyone's complaining it happened too fast. I'm guessing if they were still studying these vaccines and refusing to release them to the public after the incredibly positive data they've generated, people would be screaming bloody murder at the government bureaucracy to let them have the vaccines. It's a crazy world we live in.

Anyway I think this is my last post beating this dead horse. Everyone will do what they're gonna do. I sincerely hope you all stay healthy.
 
Troglodyte said:
Here is Oregon’s State Health Official Dr. Dean Sidelinger confirming that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of the hospitalized are UNVACCINATED. Enjoy another **** sandwich brought on by your willful ignorance, Tim.

Oregon reports 30 new coronavirus deaths as hospitalizations reach a pandemic high

Oregon health officials reported 30 new fatalities related to coronavirus on Tuesday just as hospitalizations across the state have reached a pandemic high. “Today, OHA is reporting 1,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations, a pandemic high and yet another grim milestone in Oregon’s ongoing struggle with...
katu.com katu.com
Click to expand...

Oh Good Lord could you stay on topic?

YOU interjected vaccinated v unvaccinated into the argument Oregon. I ONLY pointed out that for a state that ranks 13th in vaccinations, it's quite odd that their hospitalization numbers are so bad. I never surmised how many were vaccinated or not. The damned point I was making is that for a state that is one of the leaders in vaccination status, their hospital system struggling.

Now did you bother to read the whole article???

"Health officials also reported 30 new fatalities. The deceased are the following people:".......followed by every single patient having "underlying conditions" or "underlying conditions being confirmed." Average age, 74. SEVENTY-FOUR.

COVID isn't killing the healthy.

On the vaccinations, Sidelinger said the majority were unvaccinated. Where's the data? Like Israel, it would be great to actually see it. Why are we not publishing data on vaccinated v unvaccinated patients? Many other parts of the world are seeing large %s of their hospitalized vaccinated.

Magically, we don't AND we don't publish that data. Odd, the coincidence?
 
Troglodyte said:
There are far more medical professionals that vehemently disagree with her including over 96% of Medical DOCTORS who have a “**** ton” more education and training than she has.

www.ama-assn.org

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19

New data point toward high COVID-19 vaccine confidence among practicing physicians.
www.ama-assn.org www.ama-assn.org
Click to expand...

We have previously DESTROYED this bullshit article. Please stop posting it.

The AMA surveyed 301 physicians out of over 1Million in the USA.

You post a survey, I can too.

1629899662706.png

www.visiontimes.com

The Majority of American Physicians Remain Unvaccinated - Vision Times

A survey conducted by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) has found that 58 percent of physicians are not fully vaccinated against
www.visiontimes.com www.visiontimes.com

A survey conducted by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) has found that 58 percent of physicians are not fully vaccinated against COVID-19. The AAPS survey comes on the back of another survey conducted by the American Medical Association (AMA) which claimed that almost 96 percent of doctors are fully vaccinated against the coronavirus.

However, the AAPS survey questions the results of the AMA survey as it reveals that a majority of physicians have declined COVID-19 shots.

The poll saw the participation of 700 physicians and highlights the fact that physician support for mass inoculation campaigns is not as unanimous as some assert. Eighty percent of unvaccinated physicians stated that the risk from the vaccines exceeds the risk of the disease. Thirty percent admitted that they had already contracted the infection.

Some of the other reasons cited by physicians for not getting vaccinated include unknown long-term effects of the vaccines, the experimental nature of the vaccines, reports of deaths following inoculation, blood clots among vaccinated people, use of aborted fetal tissue, and availability of effective early treatment.
 
Troglodyte said:
To Tibs point about 100% certainty…

People still die in car accidents, and get concussions and skin cancer. Should we get rid of seatbelts, helmets and sunscreen?

That is essentially your argument regarding masks and vaccines.
Click to expand...

To OFTB's point, when you mandate something that doesn't work, it's a problem.

Seatbelts work. Sunscreen works. Helmets work.

Masks and lockdowns - do not.

What a stupid argument.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
Oh Good Lord could you stay on topic?

YOU interjected vaccinated v unvaccinated into the argument Oregon. I ONLY pointed out that for a state that ranks 13th in vaccinations, it's quite odd that their hospitalization numbers are so bad. I never surmised how many were vaccinated or not. The damned point I was making is that for a state that is one of the leaders in vaccination status, their hospital system struggling.

Now did you bother to read the whole article???

"Health officials also reported 30 new fatalities. The deceased are the following people:".......followed by every single patient having "underlying conditions" or "underlying conditions being confirmed." Average age, 74. SEVENTY-FOUR.

COVID isn't killing the healthy.

On the vaccinations, Sidelinger said the majority were unvaccinated. Where's the data? Like Israel, it would be great to actually see it. Why are we not publishing data on vaccinated v unvaccinated patients? Many other parts of the world are seeing large %s of their hospitalized vaccinated.

Magically, we don't AND we don't publish that data. Odd, the coincidence?
Click to expand...
Ha! Every time you get schooled, your knee jerk reaction is to accuse me of changing the topic. I didn’t change it at all. You said my 97% was a bullshit guess. The 97% was based on the CDC study that I linked. THERE’S YOUR DATA. Sidelinger backed it up.

And nice “**** anyone who is 74 years old with underlying conditions, Covid isn’t killing the healthy” sentiment.
 
oneforthebus said:
I suggest to you that if a more effective vaccine is found and passes clinical trials it will go into use.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Novavax is producing 100M doses a month. In 4Q, it will be 150M. It's already been reported nearly 100% of their doses will be shipped overseas. Due to exactly what Mad stated. Storage requirements, etc. Americans will NOT have a choice any time soon to a traditionally developed vaccine.

Nada fishy there.
 
Troglodyte said:
This is a poll from prior to the election that says, unlike Republicans, the majority of Democrats said they would get vaccinated.

www.nbcnews.com

Poll: Less than half of Americans say they'll get a coronavirus vaccine

A majority of Democrats say they would get a government-approved vaccine, compared to just 36 percent of Republicans, according to the NBC News|SurveyMonkey Weekly Tracking Poll.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
Click to expand...
again, why do you hate black people?

from the article you posted and quoted and 100% believe in...

But just 24 percent of Black adults say they would get a government-approved vaccine for themselves and their families, while 31 percent say they wouldn't and 42 percent say they're unsure.
Click to expand...
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
Wrong. Novavax is producing 100M doses a month. In 4Q, it will be 150M. It's already been reported nearly 100% of their doses will be shipped overseas. Due to exactly what Mad stated. Storage requirements, etc. Americans will NOT have a choice any time soon to a traditionally developed vaccine.

Nada fishy there.
Click to expand...

Recent article about EUA for Novavax, why it's being held up and manufacturing.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/covid-19-vaccinemaker-novavax-faces-manufacturing-setback
 
Troglodyte said:
Ha! Every time you get schooled, your knee jerk reaction is to accuse me of changing the topic. I didn’t change it at all. You said my 97% was a bullshit guess. The 97% was based on the CDC study that I linked. THERE’S YOUR DATA. Sidelinger backed it up.

And nice “**** anyone who is 74 years old with underlying conditions, Covid isn’t killing the healthy” sentiment.
Click to expand...

You would be served well to go back to where Oregon was introduced. It was introduced by me when you brought up the random state of CT. I introduced it and said for a state that ranks 13th in vaccination (you ****** that part up saying they were middle of the road), it's a wonder why their hospitals are being crushed.

YOU introduced the question - what % of those in the hospitals are unvaccinated. I said, go answer it. I didn't offer an answer.

You can't stay on topic.

Second, the state health commissioner saying "the overwhelming # of patients are unvaccinated" (with no data) does not corroborate the CDC's claim that 97% of patients in the US are unvaccinated. Try making that stand up in court with no facts.

I'll repeat again, if we had open information sharing like the Israel Health Ministry provides for their citizens, we might be able to have a data-based v a conjecture-based argument.
 
oneforthebus said:
So Ron you're seriously telling me they are purposely hawking less effective vaccines and holding back more effective ones in order to be able to shut down and destroy the middle class.

You're a smart guy, I have a hard time thinking you actually believe this.
Click to expand...
Nothing about vaccines, it’s just they’re looking for any excuse for more control. Covid is never going away, there will always be a variant, you will always need a booster shot, there will always be something. Just wait and see.
 
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