Covid Vaccine

[Badcat]

Sure they have. Prove it.

Social media posts are not studies.

They've already provided it to you on multiple pages of this thread. Go look it up ********.

 

[Troglodyte]

Ummm, dumbass LMAO....as it has been since the beginning of this epidemic. The rise in deaths has always been lower than the rise in cases...unless you be think everyone who got the virus last year be die from it????

OMG! It's a pandemic of the unvaxxed, says the NYT and Floggy!

View attachment 7152

Germany is setting it's worst cases EVER records and have death rates now WORSE than a year ago. They are 68% fully vaxed and around 78% with at least one dose. And it's the unvaxxed??? 25% of their population is driving more cases than when the whole country was unvaccinated...

Germany is evidence just how poor these vaccines work. Get 3/4s of your people vaccinated, witness record case levels and increases in death rates. "Amazing Vaccines."

The graph uses deaths (WHOLE NUMBERS) per day vs case RATE per 100k and has has a secondary Y axis for reason of comparison between deaths and cases. Again, you’re graph dyslexic.

Yes, Germany’s 26 MILLION unvaccinated are driving its 55 THOUSAND daily cases. Provide a source refutes that. I’ll wait.

Simpson’s paradox | Definition, Example, and Explanation

Simpson’s paradox, also called Yule-Simpson effect, in statistics, an effect that occurs when the marginal association between two categorical variables is qualitatively different from the partial association between the same two variables after controlling for one or more other variables...

www.britannica.com

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

The graph uses deaths (WHOLE NUMBERS) per day vs case RATE per 100k and has has a secondary Y axis for reason of comparison between deaths and cases. Again, you’re graph dyslexic.

Yes, Germany’s 26 MILLION unvaccinated are driving its 55 THOUSAND daily cases. Provide a source refutes that. I’ll wait.

Simpson’s paradox | Definition, Example, and Explanation

Simpson’s paradox, also called Yule-Simpson effect, in statistics, an effect that occurs when the marginal association between two categorical variables is qualitatively different from the partial association between the same two variables after controlling for one or more other variables...

www.britannica.com

So let me get this straight, you are trying to claim a Country with 80% of tit’s population vaccinated and is currently at 95% of it’s previous peak infections is because of the unvaccinated? By your hypothesis that means unvaccinated are getting this at 4 times the rate they were at the previous peak? Same with deaths? GTFO!

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Deaths will follow cases for the unvaccinated, not so much for the vaccinated.

You’re graph dyslexic. That shows that the rise in deaths is much lower than the rise in cases.

The vaccine doesn’t help the unvaccinated…

Germany’s Fourth Covid Wave: ‘A Pandemic of the Unvaccinated’

Germany once set an example for how to manage the coronavirus. Now, deep pockets of vaccine resistance are helping drive daily infections to new heights.

www.nytimes.com

The vaccine doesn’t help the unvaccinated precisely because it doesn’t work as traditional vaccine and is seriously flawed otherwise at 80% vaccination it would absolutely slow the spread even among unvaccinated. That is basic epidemiology 101.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

The graph uses deaths (WHOLE NUMBERS) per day vs case RATE per 100k and has has a secondary Y axis for reason of comparison between deaths and cases. Again, you’re graph dyslexic.

I post 4 graphs. You say "THE" graph. LMAO. Which graph are you referring to? One you linked to behind a paywall? One of mine?

No refuting the data. None.

The current death rate this year is higher than the death rate last year.
The cases now in Germany ECLIPSE their previous high.
3/4s of the country is vaccinated.

Yes, Germany’s 26 MILLION unvaccinated are driving its 55 THOUSAND daily cases. Provide a source refutes that. I’ll wait.

Provide a source that does. Your pay wall article has "expert" testimony. No data. Conjecture.

In the meantime, please continue to bang the drum that German is "evidence" of the vaccines working LOL

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

There should be a debate site that lets you archive links you previously posted into the thread for the duration of the thread… it minimizes the tactic to ignore a post when its linked then challenge it as soon as its referenced later… it is annoying to have to dig things you posted weeks ago only to have them ignored again

Ideologues do this.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Social media posts are not studies.

You have been provided with hundreds of scientific studies and scientific research articles.

 

[madinsomniac]

When covid first came out and people pointed to natural immunity, the Political side of the argument immeasurable referenced a one to three month immunity… this was based on one case of reinfection after about a month which well may have been a man who never totally beat it and had a relapse after a stretch of feeling better…

The closest coronavirus to this one and the previous sars virus had extremely long immunity… one being recorded as active after 17 years

Yet the three month number is repeatedly quoted by “experts”… the three month number was an estimation based on a type of cornavirus that had shown the least amount of immunity… it had no data backing it up… multiple studies going on since the outbreak have gone over a year with no dip in immunity for natural immunity, yet the new quoted timeframe is 8 months… despite the study this was based on having revised its own findings to 11 months (and counting)…

The observational data says barring immune deficiency, the risk a second reinfection is extremely rare and a severe one is virtually nonexistent. Doctors and nurses are operating on natural immunity inside covid wards… for over a year in some cases…

The vaccine timeframes, on the other hand, keep dropping… from “long lasting “ to eight to nine months.. and now it looks like the cdc is going to back a three month timeframe..

The vaccines do not stimulate Tcell response and are extremely limited… this was known before they were even released and waning effectiveness was an absolute prediction…

There also is a narrative about natural immunity plus the vaccine gives better immunity, yet there is no long term proof of that either, since the natural immunity numbers were so highly effective under .12% in cdc reported cases) any increase in the vaccine numbers were in the margins of noise in the data…

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

These mandates will be/are killing innocent people. 500 in just Buffalo. Think about that. Watch the news clip....this is happening amid an "alarming rise in hospital capacity."

500 Buffalo hospital workers fired… 7 hospitals stop doing surgeries​

 

[Steeltime]

These mandates will be/are killing innocent people. 500 in just Buffalo. Think about that. Watch the news clip....this is happening amid an "alarming rise in hospital capacity."

500 Buffalo hospital workers fired… 7 hospitals stop doing surgeries​

 

[Troglodyte]

So let me get this straight, you are trying to claim a Country with 80% of tit’s population vaccinated and is currently at 95% of it’s previous peak infections is because of the unvaccinated? By your hypothesis that means unvaccinated are getting this at 4 times the rate they were at the previous peak? Same with deaths? GTFO!

69% fully vaccinated. CDC states unvaccinated are 5X more likely to contract Covid. Less restrictions (until they told them to **** off recently) If you got something that shows the vaccinated are fueling the surge, share it.

Millions vs thousands.

Simpson’s paradox | Definition, Example, and Explanation

Simpson’s paradox, also called Yule-Simpson effect, in statistics, an effect that occurs when the marginal association between two categorical variables is qualitatively different from the partial association between the same two variables after controlling for one or more other variables...

www.britannica.com

 

[Troglodyte]

These mandates will be/are killing innocent people. 500 in just Buffalo. Think about that. Watch the news clip....this is happening amid an "alarming rise in hospital capacity."

500 Buffalo hospital workers fired… 7 hospitals stop doing surgeries​

Impossible, that’s against the law!

 

[Steelworth]

Simpson’s paradox | Definition, Example, and Explanation

Simpson’s paradox, also called Yule-Simpson effect, in statistics, an effect that occurs when the marginal association between two categorical variables is qualitatively different from the partial association between the same two variables after controlling for one or more other variables...

www.britannica.com

Simpleton's paradox

Simpleton’s paradox, also called Flogged-Simpleton effect, is an effect that occurs when the marginal association between neurotransmitters in the brain not firing are qualitatively different from the partial association between its *** and its head after controlling for one or more other variables.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

More social media and YouTube information

From the Lancet, Floggy's favorite source.

For translation:
ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 = AstraZeneca Covid vaccines
mRNA-1273 = Moderna Covid vaccine
BNT162b2 = Pfizer Covid vaccine

Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccination Against Risk of Symptomatic Infection, Hospitalization, and Death Up to 9 Months: A Swedish Total-Population Cohort Study

Background: Whether vaccine effectiveness against Coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) lasts longer than 6 months is unclear.<br><br>Methods: A retrospective coh

papers.ssrn.com

Background: Whether vaccine effectiveness against Coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) lasts longer than 6 months is unclear.

Methods:

• A retrospective cohort study was conducted using Swedish nationwide registries.
• The cohort comprised 842,974 pairs (N=1,684,958), including individuals vaccinated with 2 doses of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19, mRNA-1273, or BNT162b2, and matched unvaccinated individuals.
• Cases of symptomatic infection and severe Covid-19 (hospitalization or 30-day mortality after confirmed infection) were collected from 12 January to 4 October 2021.

Findings:

• Vaccine effectiveness of BNT162b2 (Pfizer) against infection waned progressively from 92% at day 15-30 to 47% at day 121-180, and from day 211 and onwards no effectiveness could be detected (23%).
• The effectiveness waned slightly slower for mRNA-1273 (Moderna), being estimated to 59% from day 181 and onwards.
• In contrast, effectiveness of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (AstraZeneca) was generally lower and waned faster, with no effectiveness detected from day 121 and onwards,
• whereas effectiveness from heterologous ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 / mRNA was maintained from 121 days and onwards (66%).
• Overall, vaccine effectiveness was lower and waned faster among men and older individuals.
• For the outcome severe Covid-19, effectiveness waned from 89% at day 15-30 to 42% from day 181 and onwards, with sensitivity analyses showing notable waning among men, older frail individuals, and individuals with comorbidities.

Interpretation:

• Vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic Covid-19 infection wanes progressively over time across all subgroups, but at different rate according to type of vaccine, and faster for men and older frail individuals.
• The effectiveness against severe illness seems to remain high through 9 months, although not for men, older frail individuals, and individuals with comorbidities.
• This strengthens the evidence-based rationale for administration of a third booster dose.

---

The Pfizer vaccine's actual trajectory in efficacy:

Science, and all that

 

[Steeltime]

Just to make clear EXACTLY what my position is (as stated twice previously):

• The vaccines are an effective protection to those who get the vaccine. That's it.
• The vaccines will NOT prevent spread of Covid. The data on this are overwhelming. Anybody disputing that point is an idiot, a liar, or both.
• Since the vaccines will NOT prevent the spread of Covid but WILL provide protection, getting the vaccine is 100% about personal protection. Nothing more.
• For anybody over age 50, or somebody who is obese, or somebody with another co-morbidity, get the vaccine.
• For anybody else, your choice. Getting or not getting really has no effect on me.
• To those claiming vaccination is necessary to re-opening - bullshit.
• Getting vaccinated does not prevent people from getting the Chinese flu, and being unvaccinated is a potential hazard to the PERSON NOT VACCINATED.
• Keeping schools closed was stupid as of June of 2020, when we knew that children faced almost no risk from the Chinese flu.
• Keeping schools closed today is criminal.
• Forcing vaccinations at all is unconscionable. Government has NO right, at all, ever to tell me what to do to protect me from me.
• The vaccines have no effect - none - in protecting others from me.
• This is related to the undeniable fact that getting the vaccine protects the vaccinated from serious illness but does not - repeat, does NOT - prevent the vaccinated from getting and spreading the Chinese flu.
• Therefore, the undeniable benefits of the vaccine flow to those vaccinated, and the risks associated with not getting the vaccine flow to the person who is not vaccinated.

Got it?

 

[Troglodyte]

I post 4 graphs. You say "THE" graph. LMAO. Which graph are you referring to? One you linked to behind a paywall? One of mine?

No refuting the data. None.

The current death rate this year is higher than the death rate last year.
The cases now in Germany ECLIPSE their previous high.
3/4s of the country is vaccinated.



Provide a source that does. Your pay wall article has "expert" testimony. No data. Conjecture.

In the meantime, please continue to bang the drum that German is "evidence" of the vaccines working LOL

LOL! Only ONE graph had both cases and deaths and a secondary Y axis as described. I rest my case, you don’t even understand the graphs you share.

You think Germany is bad, wait until you see the Christmas present the 51% unvaccinated bring to West Virginia.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Impossible, that’s against the law!

It's happening. As we said...it would.

Now let's start tallying deaths as a result of understaning.

Those lives don't matter though do they?

 

[Steeltime]

LOL! Only ONE graph had both cases and deaths and a secondary Y axis as described. I rest my case ...

Thank God.

"I rest my case" means you're done. You do know, counselor, that once you rest, you stop talking, right?

 

[Steelworth]

Just to make clear EXACTLY what my position is (as stated twice previously):

• The vaccines are an effective protection to those who get the vaccine. That's it.
• The vaccines will NOT prevent spread of Covid. The data on this are overwhelming. Anybody disputing that point is an idiot, a liar, or both.
• Since the vaccines will NOT prevent the spread of Covid but WILL provide protection, getting the vaccine is 100% about personal protection. Nothing more.
• For anybody over age 50, or somebody who is obese, or somebody with another co-morbidity, get the vaccine.
• For anybody else, your choice. Getting or not getting really has no effect on me.
• To those claiming vaccination is necessary to re-opening - bullshit.
• Getting vaccinated does not prevent people from getting the Chinese flu, and being unvaccinated is a potential hazard to the PERSON NOT VACCINATED.
• Keeping schools closed was stupid as of June of 2020, when we knew that children faced almost no risk from the Chinese flu.
• Keeping schools closed today is criminal.
• Forcing vaccinations at all is unconscionable. Government has NO right, at all, ever to tell me what to do to protect me from me.
• The vaccines have no effect - none - in protecting others from me.
• This is related to the undeniable fact that getting the vaccine protects the vaccinated from serious illness but does not - repeat, does NOT - prevent the vaccinated from getting and spreading the Chinese flu.
• Therefore, the undeniable benefits of the vaccine flow to those vaccinated, and the risks associated with not getting the vaccine flow to the person who is not vaccinated.

Got it?

Link/source? Even though I've been provided upwards of 100 links/sources at this point.

- Flogged-Simpleton

 

[Steelworth]

Thank God.

"I rest my case" means you're done. You do know, counselor, that once you rest, you stop talking, right?

Of course he does. Flogged is a lawyer, doctor, scientist, engineer and an astronaut.

Well, until Mrs. Floggedaton wakes him up from his nap and serves him his Lunchables with his juicebox.

Flogged in his own mind:

Flogged in real life:

 

[Troglodyte]

More “coincidences” among the unvaccinated…

Froedtert president: 88% of COVID-19 patients unvaccinated

Milwaukee County has reached its highest point in COVID-19 hospitalizations all year — 299 on Monday — and its biggest hospital, Froedtert, is full.

www.wisn.com

Unvaccinated Mainers continue to drive COVID-19 hospitalization surge, officials say

Maine's hospitals are running out of room, with the amount of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 remaining at the highest levels of the pandemic.

www.wmtw.com

Unvaccinated COVID Patients Fill Local Hospital's ICU

The steady swoosh of air being pushed into a patient's lungs punctuated by a mechanical, rhythmic clicking is the unmistakable sound of a ventilator keeping a critically ill COVID patient alive. When WHMI visited St. Joe Mercy last Thursday, all eight of their ICU pods had COVID patients in...

www.whmi.com

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

69% fully vaccinated. CDC states unvaccinated are 5X more likely to contract Covid. Less restrictions (until they told them to **** off recently) If you got something that shows the vaccinated are fueling the surge, share it.

Millions vs thousands.

Simpson’s paradox | Definition, Example, and Explanation

Simpson’s paradox, also called Yule-Simpson effect, in statistics, an effect that occurs when the marginal association between two categorical variables is qualitatively different from the partial association between the same two variables after controlling for one or more other variables...

www.britannica.com

69% fully vaccinated. CDC states unvaccinated are 5X more likely to contract Covid. Less restrictions (until they told them to **** off recently) If you got something that shows the vaccinated are fueling the surge, share it.

Millions vs thousands.

Simpson’s paradox | Definition, Example, and Explanation

Simpson’s paradox, also called Yule-Simpson effect, in statistics, an effect that occurs when the marginal association between two categorical variables is qualitatively different from the partial association between the same two variables after controlling for one or more other variables...

www.britannica.com

69% was more than a month ago. 78% now, it impossible statistically that it is only the unvaccinated fueling the surge. What the **** don't you understand about that. 93% peak but you are trying to tell me there are enough infections in just 22% of the population, of which a large part are children not eligible to get the vaccination and unlikely to get the virus or have serious issues or die if they do is accountable for the surge. That would mean an infection rate so far in excess of the peak as to make it virtually impossible and would quickly lead to everyone having been exposed. Again do some simple basic logical analysis of the bullshit you are trying to spew and get a mother ******* clue.

Germany: the latest coronavirus counts, charts and maps

Tracking the COVID-19 outbreak, updated daily

graphics.reuters.com

 

[Troglodyte]

69% was more than a month ago. 78% now, it impossible statistically that it is only the unvaccinated fueling the surge. What the **** don't you understand about that. 93% peak but you are trying to tell me there are enough infections in just 22% of the population, of which a large part are children not eligible to get the vaccination and unlikely to get the virus or have serious issues or die if they do is accountable for the surge. That would mean an infection rate so far in excess of the peak as to make it virtually impossible and would quickly lead to everyone having been exposed. Again do some simple basic logical analysis of the bullshit you are trying to spew and get a mother ******* clue.

View attachment 7155View attachment 7156

Germany: the latest coronavirus counts, charts and maps

Tracking the COVID-19 outbreak, updated daily

graphics.reuters.com

I get 69.1% fully vaxed as of 12/7/21 and 67.1% fully vaxed as of 11/7/21. The link below states 69% as of 12/2/21.

It’s not statistically impossible. The unvaccinated could, theoretically, fuel the surge at the current pace for a year and a half.

Germany imposes curbs on unvaccinated, to make shots mandatory

Germany on Thursday imposed restrictions on the unvaccinated as it sought to break a dramatic surge in daily coronavirus infections exacerbated by the discovery of the Omicron strain.

www.reuters.com

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I get 69.1% fully vaxed as of 12/7/21 and 67.1% fully vaxed as of 11/7/21. The link below states 69% as of 12/2/21.

It’s not statistically impossible. The unvaccinated could, theoretically, fuel the surge at the current pace for a year and a half.

Germany imposes curbs on unvaccinated, to make shots mandatory

Germany on Thursday imposed restrictions on the unvaccinated as it sought to break a dramatic surge in daily coronavirus infections exacerbated by the discovery of the Omicron strain.

www.reuters.com

Theoretically maybe but extremely unlikely given all other evidence to the contrary that you willfully ignore. I gave you the link to my source which is interestingly the same root source you linked. So which number is it? How do we trust any of the numbers anyone provides when they same source gives two wildly different numbers?

 

[Badcat]

Theoretically maybe but extremely unlikely given all other evidence to the contrary that you willfully ignore. I gave you the link to my source which is interestingly the same root source you linked. So which number is it? How do we trust any of the numbers anyone provides when they same source gives two wildly different numbers?