2015 DeAngelo Williams vs 2017 Bell

[Coryea]

All we need is good production, you get a runner and a 3rd down back. The past super bowl winners have proved all you need is good production from the RB position. We have the best wr and top 3 QB, we need to fix the defense

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[Steeler Pride]

So tell Ben to take a discount hes made Alot of money over his career..tell Ben to take way less so Bell can make some money and stay with the team.

Yes, because Bell has made chump change in his career. This team doesn't win without Ben, the team has shown that it can win and be successful without Bell.

 

[Coryea]

Doesn't work that way Tommy. We still have people on this board bitching about Pouncey's cap hit as a Center wanting us to start any journeyman in his place?

Skill players are irreplaceable. Look at what happened when Shazier went down. You just don't step in and replace these guys with their backup. Its a rarity.

Tell me what elite rbs have won the super bowl recently? Lynch? He averaged 78 yards per game.
You're proving my point we need the money to attempt to fix our D because we won't have Shazier this season either, we gave up 45 points to a ground and pound offense

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[Hines57]

All we need is good production, you get a runner and a 3rd down back. The past super bowl winners have proved all you need is good production from the RB position. We have the best wr and top 3 QB, we need to fix the defense

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How many years have we been fixing the defense? At some point the FO needs to step back and realize maybe our scheme needs to be updated. Getting torched by Blake Bortles and some of the other bums that burned us this year is not right. We've had two good drafts in a row adding defensive pieces and the D still ain't right. The offense isn't far. I would say that play calling and situational football is the biggest obstruction to the offense getting better.

 

[Hines57]

Tell me what elite rbs have won the super bowl recently? Lynch? He averaged 78 yards per game.
You're proving my point we need the money to attempt to fix our D because we won't have Shazier this season either, we gave up 45 points to a ground and pound offense

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Pay more to defensive players so this board can ***** about how much the cap hit is for such and such player? Come on man. I'm gonna be a damn parrot saying this but I believe our scheme is tired. We need upgrades on D for sure but they are going to come predominantly through the draft. NT (Hargrave shouldn't be starting), LOLB (Bye Bud), ILB, S.

Can you win without a franchise RB? Yeah we see it all the time. Does it hurt to have a franchise RB? Nope.

 

[Steeler Pride]

How many years have we been fixing the defense? At some point the FO needs to step back and realize maybe our scheme needs to be updated. Getting torched by Blake Bortles and some of the other bums that burned us this year is not right. We've had two good drafts in a row adding defensive pieces and the D still ain't right. The offense isn't far. I would say that play calling and situational football is the biggest obstruction to the offense getting better.

As soon as Rooney and Co. actually hire a DC and allow him to implement and run his own defense maybe we will actually have the right scheme. The more that Tomlin takes over the defense and makes it his own the worse it gets. His Tampa-2 that he likes to run is ******* awful, the 2DL and dropping your 2 OLB into coverage is even worse, and running 2DL in the goal line package is asinine. This defense is Tomlin's baby, he needs to take responsibility and have some accountability for the **** show.

 

[Coryea]

How many years have we been fixing the defense? At some point the FO needs to step back and realize maybe our scheme needs to be updated. Getting torched by Blake Bortles and some of the other bums that burned us this year is not right. We've had two good drafts in a row adding defensive pieces and the D still ain't right. The offense isn't far. I would say that play calling and situational football is the biggest obstruction to the offense getting better.

With the way the NFL is geared toward passing and the college teams all running spread offenses it's easier now than ever to get RBs to step right in and produce. Hunt, Fornette, Kamura, Gurley, Elliot, etc, etc. The Eagles 3rd down RB Clemens was undrafted I believe.


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[Hines57]

With the way the NFL is geared toward passing and the college teams all running spread offenses it's easier now than ever to get RBs to step right in and produce. Hunt, Fornette, Kamura, Gurley, Elliot, etc, etc. The Eagles 3rd down RB Clemens was undrafted I believe.


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Your'e not wrong in what you are saying. The issue is do you let a franchise player walk when you've got a team capable of winning it all?

If they let Bell walk do you really think the money saved by not having him on the roster will allow them to sign the UFAs who are always overpriced to come in and "fix" the defense? I say no way.

You let Bell walk and now you have to address the position in the draft adding another need on top of our current needs.

Also going back to your original post in the thread, Bell wins the rushing title if he plays week 17 and likely catches another 5+ balls for 90 catches on the year. That's NOT something you can just plug another RB in the draft for. I still have Ben Tate nightmares

 

[antdrewjosh]

Yes, because Bell has made chump change in his career. This team doesn't win without Ben, the team has shown that it can win and be successful without Bell.

Ben earnings in 14 years 170,286,864

Bell is 16,038,194

So again no one is debating who is more important then whom. My point is Ben has made alot of money. So on his new extension leave some on the table to help sign Bell..

 

[Coryea]

Pay more to defensive players so this board can ***** about how much the cap hit is for such and such player? Come on man. I'm gonna be a damn parrot saying this but I believe our scheme is tired. We need upgrades on D for sure but they are going to come predominantly through the draft. NT (Hargrave shouldn't be starting), LOLB (Bye Bud), ILB, S.

Can you win without a franchise RB? Yeah we see it all the time. Does it hurt to have a franchise RB? Nope.

I agree with you, the scheme on D isn't helping, but we aren't going to find a NT, two LBs and a safety in the draft that can step in and produce.
Hell yeah it's great having a RB like Bell, but not when he wants to be paid close to 17 million per

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[Coach]

320 carries, 1447 yards, 4.5ypc, 17tds, long 52
64 catches, 587 yards, 9.2ypc

321 carries, 1291 yards, 4.0ypc, 9tds, long 27
85 carries, 655 yards, 7.7ypc, 2tds

The top numbers are Williams, now he started 10 games so I averaged it out to a full season, Bell sat out vs Cleveland so his numbers would be a bit higher.

Williams cap hit was 1.4 million that season.

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Hmmm. Williams was likely past his prime, yet in the same system with the same players, look at what he did.

With the emergence of JU-JU and McDoanld, Brown no longer needs to be force feed, and there is less of a need for a safety value type

Please trade Bell for value now. He will be a cap killer, and frankly isn't nearly as good as he thinks he is.

 

[Hines57]

I agree with you, the scheme on D isn't helping, but we aren't going to find a NT, two LBs and a safety in the draft that can step in and produce.
Hell yeah it's great having a RB like Bell, but not when he wants to be paid close to 17 million per

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You aren't going to overpay for those players in UFA either. We are lucky if we get ONE decent UFA each offseason. That's just the way this FO works. Now if they're willing to risk cap hell by overpaying for some UFAs now to try to get another trophy before this team's window is closed....maybe you'll see that happen but that just hasn't been the way this team has done business. The Madden football GMs on this board would bust a nut if the FO actually went out and signed some big name UFAs.

 

[Steeler Pride]

Ben earnings in 14 years 170,286,864

Bell is 16,038,194

So again no one is debating who is more important then whom. My point is Ben has made alot of money. So on his new extension leave some on the table to help sign Bell..

Franchise QB's are worth a **** ton more than RB's. There is a reason that hardly any teams pay QB money for RB's. If you want Ben to leave money on the table for Bell for the better of the team, why does Bell not leave some money on the table so that we can address our defensive issues? Bell wants more per year than what Ben has averaged per year in his career, maybe Bell has a warped perspective on what he is worth.

 

[Coryea]

Ben earnings in 14 years 170,286,864

Bell is 16,038,194

So again no one is debating who is more important then whom. My point is Ben has made alot of money. So on his new extension leave some on the table to help sign Bell..

That's just dumb, Bell is asking for twice as much as the second highest paid RB in the NFL, so Ben should leave money on the table????
This place would go insane if Ben just asked for 50% more than the second highest paid QB. Bell wants double the next RB, no player at any position is worth twice as much as the 2nd highest paid at his position.

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[Steeler Pride]

That's just dumb, Bell is asking for twice as much as the second highest paid RB in the NFL, so Ben should leave money on the table????
This place would go insane if Ben just asked for 50% more than the second highest paid QB. Bell wants double the next RB, no player at any position is worth twice as much as the 2nd highest paid at his position.

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Not to mention that the first 4 years was his rookie contract.

 

[Steelerfan81]

That's just dumb, Bell is asking for twice as much as the second highest paid RB in the NFL, so Ben should leave money on the table????
This place would go insane if Ben just asked for 50% more than the second highest paid QB. Bell wants double the next RB, no player at any position is worth twice as much as the 2nd highest paid at his position.

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Freeman signed a big deal with Atlanta. He makes like 12 mil a year now or something I believe

 

[Coryea]

Freeman signed a big deal with Atlanta. He makes like 12 mil a year now or something I believe

Per Over the Cap his total contract is worth just over 41 million for 5 years with an average hit of 8.25 and only 18 million is fully guaranteed.
Bell wants annually almost as much as Freemans guarantee is.

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[Steelerfan81]

Per Over the Cap his total contract is worth just over 41 million for 5 years with an average hit of 8.25 and only 18 million is fully guaranteed.
Bell wants annually almost as much as Freemans guarantee is.

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Yeah you're right.

 

[ark steel]

Hmmm. Williams was likely past his prime, yet in the same system with the same players, look at what he did.

With the emergence of JU-JU and McDoanld, Brown no longer needs to be force feed, and there is less of a need for a safety value type

Please trade Bell for value now. He will be a cap killer, and frankly isn't nearly as good as he thinks he is.

"What he did" was for one year AND didnt do it for 321 carries, He did it for 200 carries, which is, significantly different and you can't simply project out 30% more production as if there are no other extenuating circumstances. With your lack of statistical knowledge, i dont expect you to understand that.

 

[ark steel]

Beginning of the season it was "he needs to show he can stay healthy the whole year AND not get suspended". He did both.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Franchise QB's are worth a **** ton more than RB's. There is a reason that hardly any teams pay QB money for RB's. If you want Ben to leave money on the table for Bell for the better of the team, why does Bell not leave some money on the table so that we can address our defensive issues? Bell wants more per year than what Ben has averaged per year in his career, maybe Bell has a warped perspective on what he is worth.

NO maybe about it...........



Salute the nation

 

[Hines57]

Ben earnings in 14 years 170,286,864

Bell is 16,038,194

So again no one is debating who is more important then whom. My point is Ben has made alot of money. So on his new extension leave some on the table to help sign Bell..

QB earnings are going to be skewed toward new money. Look at what Jimmy G and Stafford just got paid. **** Jimmy G's deal is 79% of Ben's career earnings with just 5 starts for SF.

 

[Coryea]

Beginning of the season it was "he needs to show he can stay healthy the whole year AND not get suspended". He did both.

Simple question, do you want to sign him to a deal that pays him twice as much per year as the 2nd highest paid RB?

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[ark steel]

Simple question, do you want to sign him to a deal that pays him twice as much per year as the 2nd highest paid RB?

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In another thread I put what contract i would give him. I don't remember it exactly, but it was something like:

$35m signing bonus. 5 year deal; Salaries $3m, $3m, $3m, $Xm, $Xm. Cap hits the first three years is $10m, right? The third year could be more than $3m salary. He gets, essentially, $14.7m/year for the next three years.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I know QBs make more not my point? Yall are criticizing Bell for asking for as much as he can.. when over the course of career he has earned 16 million and some change. Ben is at the end of his career and has earned over 170 million. How much more does he need? Its very easy for yall to say Bell needs to take less so we can sign some defensive guys. But Ben on this next contract cant take less so to help sign Bell..