And here's the thing ...

[Ron Burgundy]

WE don't fire any Head coach, it has nothing to do with color. For better or or worse it is the Steeler way since 1969. We can complain about lack of playoff wins but he is as successful as most in the league if not more. Reid was a perennial playoff loser until he wasn't. I can live with a change but I can live with Tomlin staying if he gets better coordinators.

Problem is that Tomlin has no history of hiring good coordinators.
HIs best OC was Todd Haley, the only one he didn't hire.
His best DC was Dick LeBeau, the only one he didn't hire.

 

[TDX27]

This team is very talented on O. Get a good OC and draft a stud OL in the 1st or 2nd round and possible again in the 3rd round. The opposite pick in the 1st or 2nd is a stud DL to plug the f-ing middle of the field. No one ever better say we do not need a NT because of sub-package football. It doesn't work. And, Davis or someone like him would be a cog in the middle of our D (yes, all 3 downs) for the next decade. Stuff the run and collapse the pocket. EVERTHING starts with the Big Uglies on both sides of the ball. I've been saying this forever yet for a decade, we never use premium picks on either line. If we had a line that was good, not great, at run blocking and pass blocking, this O would look entirely different. Najee would get more than the 1 hole in 10 attempts to try and get 3 yards and our QB wouldn't be running for his life and getting hit every time he throws the ball. In one draft (especially if we are picking in the top 10), this team could be competitive again. We still have other areas to address but this would be a good start. I said it before, it will take probably a good 3 years to build a team around Pickett because in a year and two, we will be losing guys to FA and will have to make a determination on if signing Cam to another contract is worth it. He deserves to retire as a Steeler but are hard decision on both parts will need to be made after next year.

 

[Sarge]

He deserves to retire as a Steeler but are hard decision on both parts will need to be made after next year.

Not trying to be a dick here, but why does he 'deserve' to retire a Steeler? He has played good football for the Steelers and has been handsomely compensated for it. I think his relationship with the Steelers has been mutually beneficial. Not sure that he deserves anything else, really.

 

[Badcat]

Then why are they NEVER open when they run a fly pattern? For the billion short passes Pickett throws, shouldn't the CB's be jumping routes and giving WR's long TD opportunities?

No, because DJ and Claypool are OK. Good-not-great. Pickens has a lot of talent but every catch is contested. He can't seem to get open.

It's the route trees and concepts that is the problem, not the WR talent.

 

[Steeltime]

WE don't fire any Head coach, it has nothing to do with color. For better or or worse it is the Steeler way since 1969. We can complain about lack of playoff wins but he is as successful as most in the league if not more. Reid was a perennial playoff loser until he wasn't. I can live with a change but I can live with Tomlin staying if he gets better coordinators.

Not firing an unsuccessful coach because "we don't fire coaches" will make the team the Pirates, but too dumb to improve the coaching.

Hell, today I even chose to watch NASCAR over the game today. The current product is not worth the investment any longer of my time or money.

Pffft, it's not like you see crazy finishes in NASCAR with some guy deciding to ride a wall at 200 mph to nudge ahead of the guy in front and snag the last playoff spot.

 

[Stewey]

Hell, today I even chose to watch NASCAR over the game today.

But don't they go around in circles doin the same thing over and over too? lol

The Steelers "drive" me nuts.

They're a major car wreck.

 

[topseed]

WE don't fire any Head coach, it has nothing to do with color. For better or or worse it is the Steeler way since 1969. We can complain about lack of playoff wins but he is as successful as most in the league if not more. Reid was a perennial playoff loser until he wasn't. I can live with a change but I can live with Tomlin staying if he gets better coordinators.

Actually, Reid won at least one playoff game every time he made the playoffs with the Eagles in his first ten years (7 times). Then he went 0-1 twice, missed the playoffs twice, and that was the end of his tenure in Philadelphia.

Conversely, Tomlin has already gone one-and-done in the postseason 6 times, while winning at least 1 playoff game in only 4 of his 16 seasons.

 

[Djfan]

The talent we had then. It makes me sick. We had at least one more Lombari in that roster.

Actually, Reid won at least one playoff game every time he made the playoffs with the Eagles in his first ten years (7 times). Then he went 0-1 twice, missed the playoffs twice, and that was the end of his tenure in Philadelphia.

Conversely, Tomlin has already gone one-and-done in the postseason 6 times, while winning at least 1 playoff game in only 4 of his 16 seasons.

 

[slashsteel]

Food for thought: Elevate Claypool to WR1 for the rest of this year, D.Johnson WR2, Pickens to slot...roll with those 3 plus Muth and Sims when running the banana bunch. Let Pickett throw a few 20+ yard attempts on roll outs, or if the line is winning the trench. Throw a 20+yd pass on the first play of the game, might find a change in the defense by opting for some 10yd deep crossing "rubs". Pickett completing a high % of passes 67.9 due to not attacking the "field" lowest yards per pass. This is a problem with the OFFENSIVE game plan--- Ben---Mitch---Kenny. OLine is struggling and needs more horsepower but are not as bad as advertised, got out finessed on a couple of sacks and start up blown up on a couple. Kenny can move the pocket and that needs to be taken into account on patterns and how receivers react to that. Receivers do not seem to know were the "sticks" or where the out of bounds lines are, also not sold on any combat catch ability of any players.

Tell me i'm nuts!

Salute the Nation

For me I don't want DJ on the outside. He isn't good at coming back from the ball, his hands are iffy for 50/50 contested balls. His best attribute is his separation ability. So I put him in the slot and leave him there. Pickens can fight and has great hands. He stays outside. Claypool is put back on the other side and the rest of the season is sink or swim for him. The way his passion is lately I tend to think he will swim.

 

[TDX27]

Not trying to be a dick here, but why does he 'deserve' to retire a Steeler? He has played good football for the Steelers and has been handsomely compensated for it. I think his relationship with the Steelers has been mutually beneficial. Not sure that he deserves anything else, really.

It's the Burgh thing to do. It's how we have tried to do with all of our top leaders on the team. It doesn't always work out that way but it would be nice if it could. That's why I said hard decisions would have to be made. Do they want a mid-30's DL? He would have to want to stay for a huge discount as there is just no way you pay a guy $15+ million on his 3rd large contract from the team. So, then it does become do they try to trade him now as you will lose him after next year when his contract expires. He is also the leader of the D and one of the top leaders on the entire team. If they don't try to move him, which they never really have done with any top player in the past, he will just leave via FA or stay (if they want him) on a very team-friendly contract to play another year or two. Realistically though, next year will be his last year on the team thus another reason OL and DL are still our top needs by far.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

WE don't fire any Head coach, it has nothing to do with color. For better or or worse it is the Steeler way since 1969. We can complain about lack of playoff wins but he is as successful as most in the league if not more. Reid was a perennial playoff loser until he wasn't. I can live with a change but I can live with Tomlin staying if he gets better coordinators.

Sorry if it sounded like it had something to do with color in that sense, it doesn't. Just pointing out that in today's society, coupled with his "never had a losing season" BS, and how the media fawns over him, and given the constant focus on the lack of black head coaches, it makes moving him that much harder.

And it is indeed time to move him. He's behind many of the assistant coaches and as I've pointed out, his track record with developing assistants is equal to my Major League batting average, which is zero.

I have no hope that if Tomlin stays, he will change his ways and get better assistants. It was his call to bring in Canada, a guy who couldn't succeed at the college level.

I think he has Marty Schottenheimer disease. Read a great article about him years ago which boiled down to the reason Marty could never get over the hump and win a title was because he surrounded himself with yes men. Family members and friends were his coaches. Great coaches surround themselves with those that will challenge their thinking. Tomlin doesn't appear to do that.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Sorry if it sounded like it had something to do with color in that sense, it doesn't. Just pointing out that in today's society, coupled with his "never had a losing season" BS, and how the media fawns over him, and given the constant focus on the lack of black head coaches, it makes moving him that much harder.

And it is indeed time to move him. He's behind many of the assistant coaches and as I've pointed out, his track record with developing assistants is equal to my Major League batting average, which is zero.

I have no hope that if Tomlin stays, he will change his ways and get better assistants. It was his call to bring in Canada, a guy who couldn't succeed at the college level.

I think he has Marty Schottenheimer disease. Read a great article about him years ago which boiled down to the reason Marty could never get over the hump and win a title was because he surrounded himself with yes men. Family members and friends were his coaches. Great coaches surround themselves with those that will challenge their thinking. Tomlin doesn't appear to do that.

The hiring of Flores might be sign he is learning.

 

[slashsteel]

The hiring of Flores might be sign he is learning.

Not really as if he was learning Flores already would be calling the D. All his weaknesses are highlighted this year. In the year of the suck, special Steeler edition.

 

[Litos]

Not trying to be a dick here, but why does he 'deserve' to retire a Steeler? He has played good football for the Steelers and has been handsomely compensated for it. I think his relationship with the Steelers has been mutually beneficial. Not sure that he deserves anything else, really.

Well he is a team captain and has been involved with the community and all that stuff

 

[Drink IRON City]

Problem is that Tomlin has no history of hiring good coordinators.
HIs best OC was Todd Haley, the only one he didn't hire.
His best DC was Dick LeBeau, the only one he didn't hire.

D. LeBeau left because he felt to heavy a hand messing with the defense. He was to professional to point fingers but he knew the writing was on the wall. After Dick L. all other DCs were scapegoats, including Butler.

Haley did his job. He did exactly what ownership asked him to do, extend BeN's career and take less hits. The offense was way better for that.

BEN had an ego and Coach Tomlin's friend, Randy Fitchner wispered into his ear until Randy got to be OC. That was one of the biggest mistakes in hiring / promoting OCers in the Mike Tomlin history. (once O'Canada is gone then he will claim that title).


Salute the nation

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Pffft, it's not like you see crazy finishes in NASCAR with some guy deciding to ride a wall at 200 mph to nudge ahead of the guy in front and snag the last playoff spot.

I posted that in the Other Sports forum. Freaking awesome. Wife and I DVR NASCAR when it's the same time as the Steelers.
Literally looked like they sped up the tape like Benny Hill.

 

[madinsomniac]

To be fair, of TJ hadn’t gotten hurt, we likely are hovering at or above 500 right now… we aren’t that bad on talent… its all coaching

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

To be fair, of TJ hadn’t gotten hurt, we likely are hovering at or above 500 right now… we aren’t that bad on talent… its all coaching

NOPE

 

[madinsomniac]

NOPE

Really? Because we probably win in New England for sure with him…

Its also possible we beat Cleveland with him.

Reed was a complete no show in those games and the Cleveland game was a one score game until the final goofball lateral fest led to a late td for them…… the jets and Miami were both extremely close games that we probably should have won..,

There isn’t some great dearth of talent on this team… we have some stupid philosophies and lack discipline… I mean outside of Oline we are comparable to a lot of teams in most positions, really good at several…

We just really relied philosophically on a four man rush or even 3 man rushes to get to the qb for a couple years now… we play a ton of cover 2 and cover3 stuff with little pass rush… with Watt in there, you totally change the entire dynamic …

On offense we just utilize too specific routes and plays to each Player… we actually do have as big a playbook as anyone else, but the same players are toed to the same plays too much so we are predictable

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

not gaurenteed TJ would have been impactful in any games we lost. Or made the difference for the win.

ITs a team game and one guy wont make that difference in the magnitude of our suck.

 

[slashsteel]

not gaurenteed TJ would have been impactful in any games we lost. Or made the difference for the win.

ITs a team game and one guy wont make that difference in the magnitude of our suck.

Really good debate. Hypotheticals are always hard. I guess we will find out after the bye. I would like to think he impacts games just by how much they historically lose without him. But this team has so many issues I am not sure one man can overcome them. I think we would have seen closer games. Not sure .500 wouldn't be a stretch. I will hypothetically give them one more win. Can't really give them more than that as the high level of coaching fail road blocks many of scenarios. For me.

I am thinking 3 and 5.

When you go over things in your head maybe you say the D will be on the field less as a result.

Then you say but the O will be on the field more. With those turnovers that might not spear head the results that we desire.

I think most defenses eventually wear down in this scenario, albeit a middling one like the Steelers.

 

[Drink IRON City]

To be fair, of TJ hadn’t gotten hurt, we likely are hovering at or above 500 right now… we aren’t that bad on talent… its all coaching

I don't know about that, TJ typically plays defense....................................................................


Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

Really good debate. Hypotheticals are always hard. I guess we will find out after the bye. I would like to think he impacts games just by how much they historically lose without him. But this team has so many issues I am not sure one man can overcome them. I think we would have seen closer games. Not sure .500 wouldn't be a stretch. I will hypothetically give them one more win. Can't really give them more than that as the high level of coaching fail road blocks many of scenarios. For me.

I am thinking 3 and 5.

When you go over things in your head maybe you say the D will be on the field less as a result.

Then you say but the O will be on the field more. With those turnovers that might not spear head the results that we desire.

I think most defenses eventually wear down in this scenario, albeit a middling one like the Steelers.

GREAT post slash, thank you and for the many great post(s) along the way.

Well put, maybe one more victory. TJ can't play / coach / be offensive juggernaut which would be required for better out come


Salute the nation