Any Chance Shazier Moves Outside in 2015?

[21STEELERS21]

The Spence/Williams combo has steadily improved their play inside during the year. Any chance
the Steelers consider Shazier to replace Worilds next year?.

 

[GMC]

He still lacks the bulk to play inside, let alone outside. When I saw him at camp, I couldn't believe he was 235.

 

[NC STEEL]

I would think the more likely scenario is Williams moving outside. Closer to the right body type.

 

[deljzc]

No.

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[Skott]

Not unless he puts on a lot of muscle and strength.

 

[Lloyds legend]

I'd like to see him on the field period much less outside.

 

[AggieSteel]

Narp 12345

 

[Wingman]

Timmons would make more sense, putting him and Jarvis outside, Shazier and Spence/Willliams inside seems like the best way to keep the talent on the field. I know lots of folks will state that Timmons couldn't play outside, but it does not seem that Worilds or Jarvis are making anyone forget about Harrison even in his present state with the years adding up.

 

[Steelz]

Timmons would make more sense, putting him and Jarvis outside, Shazier and Spence/Willliams inside seems like the best way to keep the talent on the field. I know lots of folks will state that Timmons couldn't play outside, but it does not seem that Worilds or Jarvis are making anyone forget about Harrison even in his present state with the years adding up.

I was just about to say Timmons did it before and has bulked up since he last did, he'd be the best bet if anything.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Williams doesn't have the quickness/speed to go outside. Putting on 15 to 20lbs muscle, doesn't sound like a large chore.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Von Miller played at 237 his rookie year and has bulked up to 250. Shaziers best 40 times are faster than anyone playing OLB. Speed seems more valuable outside than in.

 

[F83]

Williams is a thumper much like Earl Holmes leaving him inside as a 2 down ILB is best, he offers little in terms of pass rush, If we are going to let Worlids go which I don't we should, I think Lebeau has badly misused him way to much in coverage 1st half of the season, just blitz him the same way we used to with Woodley right off the edge with a bull rush and then he can use his leverage to get under the RT and cause the pocket to collapse and with his speed chase and bring the qb down, At times it looks like Colbert has told Lebeau find a way to make sure he doesn't reach the same sack totals use him different manner so we can retain him back at a lower cost.

We do have the LB's for a 4-3 we could do ROLB Jones MLB Shazier LOLB Timmons retain Mclendon, draft a natural under DT, this will be discussed more when we know more about Lebeau's future, We could if Butler @ MT wanted a 4-3 start with
LE Heyward NG Mccullers/Kesiel(if back) 3T Tuitt RE fa

 

[Vader]

Von Miller played at 237 his rookie year and has bulked up to 250. Shaziers best 40 times are faster than anyone playing OLB. Speed seems more valuable outside than in.

Yes, because Harrison, Porter, Woodley (before his injuries), Gildon, Haggans, and Lloyd were all known for their speed. Speed is over rated at OLB in a 3-4 defense. Timmons is fast but he was bad on the outside. Most good OLBs in a 3-4 are quick and powerful not fast.

 

[ark steel]

Yes, because Harrison, Porter, Woodley (before his injuries), Gildon, Haggans, and Lloyd were all known for their speed. Speed is over rated at OLB in a 3-4 defense. Timmons is fast but he was bad on the outside. Most good OLBs in a 3-4 are quick and powerful not fast.

Wasn't Von suspended for PE's, too?

 

[Steelz]

Actually Timmons still rushes on the outside occasionally now in coverage schemes, particularly on stunts he'll wrap outside

 

[ark steel]

No.

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What are you willing to pay (or can pay) for that position?

Who do you want at that position that you can get for that price?

On the free market, I think Worilds would have gotten a Kruger type contract last year, regardless of whether anyone else, or I thought he was worth it. I doubt anyone thought he was worth the tag price, but the FO must have thought they could get a long term deal and didn't. As someone said in another thread, it looks like Worilds gambled and it isn't panning out like he thought. Tough to say he "gambled and lost" considering he still is up several million for this year's tag. He has played almost all of our defensive plays this year, which he hadn't been able to do before.

 

[deljzc]

What are you willing to pay (or can pay) for that position?

Who do you want at that position that you can get for that price?

On the free market, I think Worilds would have gotten a Kruger type contract last year, regardless of whether anyone else, or I thought he was worth it. I doubt anyone thought he was worth the tag price, but the FO must have thought they could get a long term deal and didn't. As someone said in another thread, it looks like Worilds gambled and it isn't panning out like he thought. Tough to say he "gambled and lost" considering he still is up several million for this year's tag. He has played almost all of our defensive plays this year, which he hadn't been able to do before.

I have no idea.

We could probably get Woodley back cheap

I still think they played their cards wrong with Worilds last year with the transition tag and now here we are. There really was never a win scenario for the Steelers. Worilds plays well and we have to tag him again. Worilds plays poorly and we still have questions.

I just keep comparing the situation to Max Starks and think it would not surprise me at all if this organization actually FRANCHISES Worilds this off-season. In essence offering him a raise and $20+ million in guarantees in the process. Is Worilds any different in talent level than Starks? Are we any better on our depth chart at ROLB than we were at LT in 2009?

This team is so averse to relying on an outside-the-building free agent to be handed the starting job (and I'm not sure Mike Mitchell is making them feel safer about that). Most free agents are brought it as depth players or to add competition (Moats, Thomas, Moore, McCain, Blount, etc.).

The other option is to really force a OLB draft pick in the 1st or 2nd rounds this year. And that would continue to pile on the investment Tombert has made with draft picks to the linebacking core.

I think the team's in a tough spot.

 

[Litos]

I have no idea.

We could probably get Woodley back cheap

I still think they played their cards wrong with Worilds last year with the transition tag and now here we are. There really was never a win scenario for the Steelers. Worilds plays well and we have to tag him again. Worilds plays poorly and we still have questions.

I just keep comparing the situation to Max Starks and think it would not surprise me at all if this organization actually FRANCHISES Worilds this off-season. In essence offering him a raise and $20+ million in guarantees in the process. Is Worilds any different in talent level than Starks? Are we any better on our depth chart at ROLB than we were at LT in 2009?

This team is so averse to relying on an outside-the-building free agent to be handed the starting job (and I'm not sure Mike Mitchell is making them feel safer about that). Most free agents are brought it as depth players or to add competition (Moats, Thomas, Moore, McCain, Blount, etc.).

The other option is to really force a OLB draft pick in the 1st or 2nd rounds this year. And that would continue to pile on the investment Tombert has made with draft picks to the linebacking core.

I think the team's in a tough spot.

Worilds won't command top $ in FA, we could get him back cheap or bring another vet. Not such a tough spot as if he had played well enough to attract attention from other teams with lots of cap room

 

[insaniti]

Williams doesn't have the quickness/speed to go outside. Putting on 15 to 20lbs muscle, doesn't sound like a large chore.

Ask Kendrell Bell how that worked out for him? Shazier already packed on 15 lbs of muscle for the combine, you need more than just speed (as has been pointed out many times) to play the outside.

 

[Steel Ballin]

His size puts him closer to playing S than OLB.

 

[Vader]

Wasn't Von suspended for PE's, too?

Yes he was suspended for PEs.

Actually Timmons still rushes on the outside occasionally now in coverage schemes, particularly on stunts he'll wrap outside

All LBs do stunts. It isn't designed to just move them so that they can go against quicker LTs or RTs as opposed to slower guards. It's designed to free someone up so they don't have to take on anyone. Gay can rush from outside as well on a CB blitz. But that doesn't mean he can play OLB. Farrior and Foote did the same thing. But they aren't OLBs.

 

[ark steel]

Worilds won't command top $ in FA, we could get him back cheap or bring another vet. Not such a tough spot as if he had played well enough to attract attention from other teams with lots of cap room

I suspect he still gets a decent offer from someone and I'm not sure I'd be willing to match it unless it was quite a bit lower than what I expected him to get last year. He has shown he can stay healthy throughout the year (assuming he does the rest of the season), so that is something he hadn't done before and is worth something.

 

[F83]

offer Worlids a deal in the same area as Kruger.

 

[deljzc]

Worilds won't command top $ in FA, we could get him back cheap or bring another vet. Not such a tough spot as if he had played well enough to attract attention from other teams with lots of cap room

What is cheap?

I proposed a take-it or leave-it 6-year, $43 million contract with $18 million guaranteed over the first two seasons (2014 and 2015) before the season started. With my plan to retain Woodley on the roster at least through training camp.

Now, Worilds has already pocketed $9.75 million for 2014. A contract like I just proposed would mean $28+ million over 3 years and that just seems outrageous. Exactly the scenario Starks had when he pocketed $22.6 over the 3-year period of 2008-2010 (I still can't shake that out of my head).

It's hard for me to know for certain (anyone have access to PFF?) but maybe Worilds' tape this season is SO BAD that he's really fallen off the radar for potential OLB's. I'm talking falling from a $7 million/year player to below $5 million/season (into the Mike Mitchell).

But again, that's letting him walk out the door and ask around, visit other teams and take his time deciding while the Steelers hold their dicks in their hands. It only takes one stupid GM to steal him away for $6 or $7 million a season and we're left in a tight spot maybe a week after free agency has started and many potential replacements are gone.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Worilds leverage for the tag was we had no other options last year. We didn't learn from that mistake and don't have many options this year.
We have inside LBs but limited OLB's. Isn't Jones the only signed OLB for next year?