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Apple Opposes Hacking Terrorists Phone

J

jitter77

Owes Jimmy $50
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/16/us/san-bernardino-shooter-phone-apple/index.html

I understand Apples view, but i find it hard to believe there is no way to unlock the phone. What if someone has an iphone and forgets their passcode? I also can't believe the FBI or CIA or whoever does not have some sort of technology to get into a locked iphone....I am all for privacy and what not, but this could be a national security issue. They could have names of other terrorists or cells, then those people could have names, and it could potentially eliminate several imminent threats.
 
Why can’t Apple have their own technicians get the info from the phone and give it to the FBI? No need for any backdoors.

I mean, the FBI is looking for help with a specific phone tied to a specific crime.

If this is just Apple on the side of the terrorists, then that's a different story
 
Spike said:
I mean, the FBI is looking for help with a specific phone tied to a specific crime.
Click to expand...
This is key. The crime's already taken place, it's not some sort of mystery who was involved. I'm surprised there aren't laws on the books right now that would force Apple to act.
 
Spike said:
Why can’t Apple have their own technicians get the info from the phone and give it to the FBI? No need for any backdoors.

I mean, the FBI is looking for help with a specific phone tied to a specific crime.
Click to expand...

This right here is the solution. Feds get a warrant, Go to Apple, Apple extracts the info passes it to the Feds. No compromising their proprietary soft/hardware.
 
Why wasn't this an issue the days immediately after the attack? Why did it take so long for the Feds to say "Hey, ya know what? We should see if Apple will help us recover stuff from that iPhone."
 
TDX27 said:
If Apple doesn't cooperate even with a warrant, throw the CEO in jail. National security comes first.
Click to expand...

The government can't force them to write their software to have a backdoor. Team Apple.

"The FBI is creating a world where citizens rely on Apple to defend their rights, rather than the other way around." Edward Snowden Guy has a point.
 
Interesting read.

A Message to Our Customers
https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand.

This moment calls for public discussion, and we want our customers and people around the country to understand what is at stake.
 
The timing of this is bad. I doubt there's much to be gained by hacking it at this point.
 
Frankly I agree with the govt on this. The FBI or whoever should be able to search your phone or computer if they have a search warrant. I don't see why they should be treated any differently than your house or car.
 
This is all very interesting to me. Very interesting, being in the tech world.

Apple's position is this is about protecting Free Speech. And I'm all for that. This one incident is incredibly important. We all get that. But, the CEO's warning is, this is a slippery slope. If you force us to unlock the privacy of one phone, we have to unlock them all. We get into a pandora's box for all future cases, and phone privacy ubiquitously disappears. That makes sense. Let's support free speech.

On the other hand, you have national security interests. This is paramount. We must address it.

It's like the Patriot Act all over again. Except...I keep coming back to this thought...

If you are accused of a crime, the police/FBI/CIA/Government can subpoena for your phone records, your text records, your bank records...literally everything. They can tell where you were, who you talked to, when, where you were when you talked to them. Think about what they have to go through to bust child pornographers?

Yet somehow, an iPhone, is some unique domain different than your PC or telephone or bank records? How so?

This is where I end up on the fence between National Security and First Amendment rights.

I am admittedly both torn and confused.
 
You folks aren't paying attention. Remember what Edward Snowden said? The NSA already has intercepts of everything that's on that phone. The FBI wants Apple to do this because once they have the software to do it on this phone they can unlock anybody's phone. And once they are able to do that they will do that WITHOUT a court order. Trust me when I say the NSA is capable of unlocking the encryption on the interception they already have in house. It would take them about a week to do it with their Cray super computer. This is about one thing only the FBI wants to be able to unlock iPhones in the house witho unlock iPhones in house. It would be a mind numbingly stupid thing to allow the FBI that kind of power. It would be but like back in the day when J Edgar Hoover had unlimited access to all kinds of information on anyone he wanted.
 
DBS1970 said:
You folks aren't paying attention. Remember what Edward Snowden said? The NSA already has intercepts of everything that's on that phone. The FBI wants Apple to do this because once they have the software to do it on this phone they can unlock anybody's phone. And once they are able to do that they will do that WITHOUT a court order. Trust me when I say the NSA is capable of unlocking the encryption on the interception they already have in house. It would take them about a week to do it with their Cray super computer. This is about one thing only the FBI wants to be able to unlock iPhones in the house witho unlock iPhones in house. It would be a mind numbingly stupid thing to allow the FBI that kind of power. It would be but like back in the day when J Edgar Hoover had unlimited access to all kinds of information on anyone he wanted.
Click to expand...

Personally I do not care if the govt is watching my phone. If you are not doing anything illegal then what is the big deal? If they have a warrant they can already take your PC and other devices so I do not see why a phone is different. Also to unlock the iphones it seems they have to be in physical possession of the phone. I do not think they can just magically unlock everyones phone. I think the FBI, CIA, and what not need as many tools as possible to stop these kind of attacks before they happen
 
jitter77 said:
Personally I do not care if the govt is watching my phone. If you are not doing anything illegal then what is the big deal? If they have a warrant they can already take your PC and other devices so I do not see why a phone is different. Also to unlock the iphones it seems they have to be in physical possession of the phone. I do not think they can just magically unlock everyones phone. I think the FBI, CIA, and what not need as many tools as possible to stop these kind of attacks before they happen
Click to expand...

So you are okay with the government listening in on your phone calls and reading your emails. What about your neighbors? It's the same privacy invasion. Ever hear of a thing called a Black Bag Op? They snatch your phone unbeknownst to you, clone all the data on it and then slip it back to you? It can happen and it isn't a hard thing to imagine the government abusing that. I have pointed this out before but the secondary purpose of requiring a warrant is that there is supervision by the courts over what LEOs are doing. Unfettered and unsupervised access to snoop is also unfettered and unsupervised acces to plant evidence. Like I said don't buy the "National Security" angle, NSA has all of it already and has the ability to crack it open. This is a stalking horse gambit to expand FBI power.
 
I guess court orders only have teeth for ordinary citizens; certainly not for corporations or former cabinet members.
 
CharlesDavenport said:
I guess court orders only have teeth for ordinary citizens; certainly not for corporations or former cabinet members.
Click to expand...

Actually everyone has the right to injunctive relief. Any citizen has the right to fight a court order in court. That's what Apple is doing here.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
This is all very interesting to me. Very interesting, being in the tech world.

Apple's position is this is about protecting Free Speech. And I'm all for that. This one incident is incredibly important. We all get that. But, the CEO's warning is, this is a slippery slope. If you force us to unlock the privacy of one phone, we have to unlock them all. We get into a pandora's box for all future cases, and phone privacy ubiquitously disappears. That makes sense. Let's support free speech.

On the other hand, you have national security interests. This is paramount. We must address it.

It's like the Patriot Act all over again. Except...I keep coming back to this thought...

If you are accused of a crime, the police/FBI/CIA/Government can subpoena for your phone records, your text records, your bank records...literally everything. They can tell where you were, who you talked to, when, where you were when you talked to them. Think about what they have to go through to bust child pornographers?

Yet somehow, an iPhone, is some unique domain different than your PC or telephone or bank records? How so?

This is where I end up on the fence between National Security and First Amendment rights.

I am admittedly both torn and confused.
Click to expand...

I am as well, Tim. What if another attack happens and we find a link to this San Bernardino *******? Would the CEO of Apple be held partially liable? I want my privacy, but damn.....sometimes you gotta err on the side of common sense.
 
While we are at it, lets all give the gov't a key to the back door of our homes, so they can come in when ever they want, and take what ever they want. Then as they leave, they don't lock the door behind them, leaving it open for criminals to come in.

Ben Franklin ~ "Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither".
 
Gedi said:
While we are at it, lets all give the gov't a key to the back door of our homes, so they can come in when ever they want, and take what ever they want. Then as they leave, they don't lock the door behind them, leaving it open for criminals to come in.

Ben Franklin ~ "Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither".
Click to expand...
Kill somebody and they will come into your house with our without a key. Search warrant.
 
DBS1970 said:
Actually everyone has the right to injunctive relief. Any citizen has the right to fight a court order in court. That's what Apple is doing here.
Click to expand...
True, but good luck to any citizen fighting a court order in the course of an FBI investigation.
 
I believe it is all a smoke screen, and they can already do this now. Just trying to keep a lid on it as long as possible by trying to make you believe they can't.
 
MT~Forged said:
I believe it is all a smoke screen, and they can already do this now. Just trying to keep a lid on it as long as possible by trying to make you believe they can't.
Click to expand...

Kinda where I fall. And the fact of the matter is they should have to get a warrant to get into a phone/computer/house and other property where a citizen has a reasonable expectation of privacy, just like they do in any other case.
 
They were discussing this on a radio show here in Tampa this morning. They were speaking to a law year about the legalities. In the course of this a computer engineer called into the show. He explained that the FBI has the physical phone in their possession. Since they have the phone they could simply remove the hard drive from the phone and manually copy it. Then they could work on decrypting the phone stayed up as much as they want it without fear of racing the original hard drive. He confirmed what I said earlier. He said the only reason the FBI would need this back door decryption software from Apple is so they could remotely look at anyone's phone that they chose. As I said before this is a ruse to expand FBI power.
 
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