Benton’s Talents Wasted by Tomlin

[Fiji Mariner]

Oh c'mon. No I wouldn't. I've clearly said the scheme is lacking and they have Benton out of position. And your comparison isn't sound. Benton is still a defensive lineman, isn't he? And your aren't asking him to play CB and cover Jamar Chase.

From what I have listened to, Benton was about useless in that game. Ok. He's out of position. I understand that. But he couldn't make 1 play in the snaps he was in for?

You will never read me argue that he hasn't squandered talent. He has. But that is not true in every case. I'll buy that in the case of that talent he had with the Killer b's for example, or individually with a guy like Hargrave. But Hargrave made plays here even though he was miscast. Benton isn't. Some of that is on the player.

Benton made plays last year playing out of position, so it can happens…but a coach shouldn’t be a hurdle to success. Mike is point blank and simple.
He had a poor game once again playing out of position, thanks Mike. Ever heard of Lil Snack, Yahya Black???

It’s a Tomlin specialty- play guys out of position, hand them an asinine assignment or simply change their position like that won’t matter.

And don’t put having a DL covering Chase past Mike, well within his ability for stupidity as is asking a WR to block a DL. It’s been done, never underestimate the stupidity and lack of football acumen that is Mike Tomlin.

90% of his career is squandering talent, asinine assignments and playing guys outta position

**** Tomlin

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Broderick Jones finished blocks at Georgia

Maybe he struggles with the awful technique taught by Mike’s inept guy Pat Meyers

More likely than him forgetting how to finish a block

Teach **** technique
Get **** results

 

[diver]

Broderick Jones finished blocks at Georgia

Maybe he struggles with the awful technique taught by Mike’s inept guy Pat Meyers

More likely than him forgetting how to finish a block

Teach **** technique
Get **** results

Everything is the coaches, huh? The player or players in question have no responsibility? Two things can be true at once. The coach doesn't put them in position to succeed, AND they just don't make plays. Again, I don't care how good the coach is or isn't, sometimes a player has to just make a play. I am surprised this is even an argument.

 

[diver]

Benton made plays last year playing out of position, so it can happens…but a coach shouldn’t be a hurdle to success. Mike is point blank and simple.
He had a poor game once again playing out of position, thanks Mike. Ever heard of Lil Snack, Yahya Black???

It’s a Tomlin specialty- play guys out of position, hand them an asinine assignment or simply change their position like that won’t matter.

And don’t put having a DL covering Chase past Mike, well within his ability for stupidity as is asking a WR to block a DL. It’s been done, never underestimate the stupidity and lack of football acumen that is Mike Tomlin.

90% of his career is squandering talent, asinine assignments and playing guys outta position

**** Tomlin

So those years Hines Ward would block down on LB or whatever was in front of him, practiced by both Cowher and Tomlin, was stupid? It worked!

 

[diver]

Broderick Jones finished blocks at Georgia

Maybe he struggles with the awful technique taught by Mike’s inept guy Pat Meyers

More likely than him forgetting how to finish a block

Teach **** technique
Get **** results

I saw Jones in the Jets game just stop blocking on a sack when Rodgers stepped up in the pocket. He just flat out stopped. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with technique, and you know it. That is 100% on the player.

 

[WindyCitySteel]

You nailed it. His arrogant insistence that he can just move players, and loves those "Swiss army knives" players instead of specialists, drives me nuts. What a leadership killer.

Chuck Noll once said that you don’t motivate with words, you motivate by preparing your players to win matchups on Sunday. A prepared player is motivated and confident.

Imagine how the Steelers players feel going into big matchups against great offenses when they know they’re behind the 8-ball.

 

[diver]

Chuck Noll once said that you don’t motivate with words, you motivate by preparing your players to win matchups on Sunday. A prepared player is motivated and confident.

Imagine how the Steelers players feel going into big matchups against great offenses when they know they’re behind the 8-ball.

Look, no one is arguing that. I agree completely. But players gotta make plays. Sure, it is harder when the coach has them out of position and the scheme stinks. But they gotta make plays. Do you think Joe Greene or whoever didn't just have to win their individual battles sometimes, and it was more about that then Noll's scheme?

But if it is all about coaching, it is important to take this to it's logical conclusion. If Tomlin has destroyed Benton, or Jones, and they have no responsibility, he must have made guys like Watt, Pouncey, and James Harrison. They were just created by Tomlin.

 

[Coryea]

At this point I think he is simply a placeholder at that position until they are sure Black is ready. Benton could easily become a backup in the next 5 weeks with Harmon, Black and Cam starting. I think he will be very good as rotational piece. This is based by an article from today on this site.

That's the problem, Tomlin only uses 3 DL like 28% of the time, that's exactly how you get your a55 ran over, you line up an undersized D and expect them to stop the run, that's what alot of this discussion has been about, Tomlin not putting the players in position to succeed. I'm not sure why it's so hard for everyone to see. 5 300+OL, blocking 2 300lb DL, and then 250lb lb's. Then when you play Baltimore, you have a 250lb RB.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Everything is the coaches, huh? The player or players in question have no responsibility? Two things can be true at once. The coach doesn't put them in position to succeed, AND they just don't make plays. Again, I don't care how good the coach is or isn't, sometimes a player has to just make a play. I am surprised this is even an argument.

I’m not arising its one way or the highway, it can be both.

I can also say with confidence that if the coaching ability is raised, the player will rise too.! Same with regression.

Take Mike Munchak as an example.



Salute the nation

 

[steelhurt]

You guys something else. In no way did I defend him. But you are so sensitive to anything you might even remotely perceive as a defense.

Broderick Jones doesn't finish blocks. The most basic thing to be a good tackle. That doesn't have one damn thing to do with what side he is on.

Kendrick Green is a not a good football player. He has done nothing elsewhere. The biggest mistake was drafting him.

Sorry. Sometimes the player just has to be better. That is just a fact regardless of your contempt for Tomlin.

Oh I see now! That’s right, we have contempt for Tomlin.
We are not allowed to criticize the great Tomlin.
You keep defending him! I’m out on this guy as so many others are as well.

 

[diver]

Oh I see now! That’s right, we have contempt for Tomlin.
We are not allowed to criticize the great Tomlin.
You keep defending him! I’m out on this guy as so many others are as well.

And where am I defending him? By saying a player sometimes has to play better? It's ridiculous. Yes, you have contempt. Which is fine and obvious by your response. But I could care less about that. He deserves some contempt. But players still have to play better. Sometimes they have to win. Who is considered the best coach right now? Andy Reid? Is he infallible? He always has his players in the perfect position?

 

[Coryea]

And where am I defending him? By saying a player sometimes has to play better? It's ridiculous. Yes, you have contempt. Which is fine and obvious by your response. But I could care less about that. He deserves some contempt. But players still have to play better. Sometimes they have to win. Who is considered the best coach right now? Andy Reid? Is he infallible? He always has his players in the perfect position?

Yes, both angles are right, the players sometimes need to play better, but the coach also has to put them in position to succeed. That's a tough one to bring up, Reid, I mean he's won what 3 Super Bowls, been to 5 since Tomlin last won a playoff game? That's the biggest issue here, Tomlin wouldn't be getting piled on if he'd actually do something vs the good teams in the playoffs, instead he's on a "historic" embarrassing playoff streak, so he's not going to get any benefit of the doubt and does he really deserve any?

 

[steelhurt]

And where am I defending him? By saying a player sometimes has to play better? It's ridiculous. Yes, you have contempt. Which is fine and obvious by your response. But I could care less about that. He deserves some contempt. But players still have to play better. Sometimes they have to win. Who is considered the best coach right now? Andy Reid? Is he infallible? He always has his players in the perfect position?

You simply cannot discount a lack of coaching a player up and putting that player in the best position to succeed and that is a direct indictment on your Mile Tomlin.
Example, Benton is not a NT and does his best work from the outside. Tomlin and his lackey Austin refuse to move him out of stubbornness. Tomlin thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. Guess what, he’s not!
Broderick Jones has mechanical issues, pure and simple. Another one of Tomlin’s hires Pat Meyer needs to address these issues and fix them. His footwork and balance need a lot of work. He doesn’t appear to punch the defender but just gets guided by the defender back into his QB.
Meyer needs to fix it or bench him.
I watched Kendrick Green play guard his natural position here with the Texans. Let me tell you he played pretty well. He’s not a pro bowl player but was serviceable at his natural position.

 

[Confluence]

Everything is the coaches, huh? The player or players in question have no responsibility? Two things can be true at once. The coach doesn't put them in position to succeed, AND they just don't make plays. Again, I don't care how good the coach is or isn't, sometimes a player has to just make a play. I am surprised this is even an argument.

It's the coaches' responsibility to hold the player accountable.
It's literally the job of everyone in a management or leadership position.

 

[diver]

You simply cannot discount a lack of coaching a player up and putting that player in the best position to succeed and that is a direct indictment on your Mile Tomlin.
Example, Benton is not a NT and does his best work from the outside. Tomlin and his lackey Austin refuse to move him out of stubbornness. Tomlin thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. Guess what, he’s not!
Broderick Jones has mechanical issues, pure and simple. Another one of Tomlin’s hires Pat Meyer needs to address these issues and fix them. His footwork and balance need a lot of work. He doesn’t appear to punch the defender but just gets guided by the defender back into his QB.
Meyer needs to fix it or bench him.
I watched Kendrick Green play guard his natural position here with the Texans. Let me tell you he played pretty well. He’s not a pro bowl player but was serviceable at his natural position.

You are being over sensitive. I am not discounting that at all. Mike Tomlin does not put his players in the best position to succeed. I agree with you. But good players beat not being in the best position to succeed all the time. When Mahomes is moving around out there trying to make a play because stuff broke down, was he ion the best position to succeed? It happens and players have to overcome.

My problem with the Benton or Jones examples is they are not showing much of anything right now. Yes, some of that can be attributed to coaching. But not all of it. No way. You can beat the man in front of you on occasion regardless of coaching.

 

[diver]

Yes, both angles are right, the players sometimes need to play better, but the coach also has to put them in position to succeed. That's a tough one to bring up, Reid, I mean he's won what 3 Super Bowls, been to 5 since Tomlin last won a playoff game? That's the biggest issue here, Tomlin wouldn't be getting piled on if he'd actually do something vs the good teams in the playoffs, instead he's on a "historic" embarrassing playoff streak, so he's not going to get any benefit of the doubt and does he really deserve any?

I agree. I don't feel like my argument is giving Tomlin any slack whatsoever. I really don't, which surprises me at some of the responses.

 

[steelhurt]

You are being over sensitive. I am not discounting that at all. Mike Tomlin does not put his players in the best position to succeed. I agree with you. But good players beat not being in the best position to succeed all the time. When Mahomes is moving around out there trying to make a play because stuff broke down, was he ion the best position to succeed? It happens and players have to overcome.

My problem with the Benton or Jones examples is they are not showing much of anything right now. Yes, some of that can be attributed to coaching. But not all of it. No way. You can beat the man in front of you on occasion regardless of coaching.

Not being over sensitive at all. Merely just stating my views.
I think we agree on some stuff but not on others . That’s ok! It’s called healthy debate like my friend Charlie Kirk believed in.
All cool on my end!

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Everything is the coaches, huh? The player or players in question have no responsibility? Two things can be true at once. The coach doesn't put them in position to succeed, AND they just don't make plays. Again, I don't care how good the coach is or isn't, sometimes a player has to just make a play. I am surprised this is even an argument.

He definitely needs to make plays
The Steelers also need coaches that aren’t ****

Both are definitely true

More often than not tho
**** coaching gets **** results

Sure players will overcome now and then

But when a player has to overcome coaching, which is the Steelers way, then the entire organization has fundamental issues…which obviously is the case. To expect anything great from this staff is delusional at this point.

It is literally 100% hinging on a future HOF QB to overcome the hurdles to success if this team is to go anywhere…maybe Aaron is just motivated enough to drag these chumps somewhere.

 

[diver]

He definitely needs to make plays
The Steelers also need coaches that aren’t ****

Both are definitely true

More often than not tho
**** coaching gets **** results

Sure players will overcome now and then

But when a player has to overcome coaching, which is the Steelers way, then the entire organization has fundamental issues…which obviously is the case. To expect anything great from this staff is delusional at this point.

It is literally 100% hinging on a future HOF QB to overcome the hurdles to success if this team is to go anywhere…maybe Aaron is just motivated enough to drag these chumps somewhere.

Agreed! With both you and Steelhurt. The good example to me is Hargrave. Much better player away from Pittsburgh. But he showed enough here to know he was out position. Not so sure about Jones and Benton. They don't show much of anything.

 

[diver]

Not being over sensitive at all. Merely just stating my views.
I think we agree on some stuff but not on others . That’s ok! It’s called healthy debate like my friend Charlie Kirk believed in.
All cool on my end!

I know this is about football, but I have been praying for Charlie's family, regardless of the idiots in Congress.

Charlie is fine now.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I saw Jones in the Jets game just stop blocking on a sack when Rodgers stepped up in the pocket. He just flat out stopped. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with technique, and you know it. That is 100% on the player.

He never looked that lost at Georgia

Where they have coaches that coach guys up and refine technique and work on issues presented

That is simply not the case with Tomlin and Co

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

And where am I defending him? By saying a player sometimes has to play better? It's ridiculous. Yes, you have contempt. Which is fine and obvious by your response. But I could care less about that. He deserves some contempt. But players still have to play better. Sometimes they have to win. Who is considered the best coach right now? Andy Reid? Is he infallible? He always has his players in the perfect position?

Tomlin is the head coach, picks his assistants unilaterally, is rarely pressured to fire assistants, he is heavily involved in the draft, he’s responsible for everything, full stop

Either Tomlin screwed up in the draft on countless players in the last 8 years or his staff didn’t put them in positions to succeed, or they didn’t develop them, pick a reason they are all on him- because hes the HEAD COACH, that’s how it works. Thats why hes “highly compensated”

Yes Watt is a success and a great pick. Name some other good draft picks in the last 8 years to balance out the missed picks of: Pickett, Najee, Jones, Benton, Kendrick Green, Wilson,

If the player can’t “beat the man in front of him”, he gets cut or doesn’t get a 2nd contract, where is Tomlins consequences?

 

[diver]

Tomlin is the head coach, picks his assistants unilaterally, is rarely pressured to fire assistants, he is heavily involved in the draft, he’s responsible for everything, full stop

Either Tomlin screwed up in the draft on countless players in the last 8 years or his staff didn’t put them in positions to succeed, or they didn’t develop them, pick a reason they are all on him- because hes the HEAD COACH, that’s how it works. Thats why hes “highly compensated”

Yes Watt is a success and a great pick. Name some other good draft picks in the last 8 years to balance out the missed picks of: Pickett, Najee, Jones, Benton, Kendrick Green, Wilson,

If the player can’t “beat the man in front of him”, he gets cut or doesn’t get a 2nd contract, where is Tomlins consequences?

Nothing you said there I disagree with for the most part. I really think it is more talent evaluation. That comes first. I think the facts back that up, as there are very few players that have left Pittsburgh and had great success.

Tomlin should have consequences. He should be coaching somewhere else or in the booth. But that doesn't mean the players in question can't make more plays.

 

[diver]

He never looked that lost at Georgia

Where they have coaches that coach guys up and refine technique and work on issues presented

That is simply not the case with Tomlin and Co

It isn't. But look at that play. He just...stops blocking. Just disengages. That's not technique. That's desire. If he continues to drive the guy to the whistle who knows what happens. And it isn't Tomlin's job to develop desire. They have to have that.

 

[Coryea]

It isn't. But look at that play. He just...stops blocking. Just disengages. That's not technique. That's desire. If he continues to drive the guy to the whistle who knows what happens. And it isn't Tomlin's job to develop desire. They have to have that.

We've had a bit of that lately too, Jones, Pickens, Dionte, quit mid-play as well, and Tomlin just gave them all a pat on the back, no punishment.