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Boy Scouts Ban Water Gun Fights....

Then, what is your point? I missed it.

That the exemptions for dependents shouldn't be limitless. Not every couple has 4+ kids, but if they did, it would create both fiscal and societal problems. When a policy fails the "if everyone did it" test, it's a bad policy whether the consequences currently exist or not.
 
That the exemptions for dependents shouldn't be limitless. Not every couple has 4+ kids, but if they did, it would create both fiscal and societal problems. When a policy fails the "if everyone did it" test, it's a bad policy whether the consequences currently exist or not.

How bout we do two things:

1 ) Shrink the government and its agencies and transfer payments.

2 ) abolish the income tax and replace it with a consumption based tax.
 
How bout we do two things:

1 ) Shrink the government and its agencies and transfer payments.

2 ) abolish the income tax and replace it with a consumption based tax.

All for shrinking government, what do you mean by transferring payments?

I'm not sure how the consumption tax works in reality. People consume many things (more or less) equally and in large amounts. If you increase the tax on those things significantly, you really screw those with less money.

A consumption tax is also a disincentive to spend money. Nobody works less to pay less income tax, but they'll be inclined to spend less if they have to pay more in taxes.
 
I'm not sure how the consumption tax works in reality. People consume many things (more or less) equally and in large amounts. If you increase the tax on those things significantly, you really screw those with less money.

A consumption tax is also a disincentive to spend money.

The consumption tax sounds attractive, in theory. I believe Congress would screw it up, greatly, with exemptions. It only works if you don't **** with the basics.

It doesn't, necessarily, screw those with less money. Prices include all of the built in taxes paid along the way and the army of accountants and lawyers kept on retainer to avoid taxes. Theoretically, prices would fall. The reality is that they, likely, would fall. Therefore, while you might pay a 10% sales tax on the item, the price, likely dropped along the same lines. Now, everyone pays something, and the evil rich that spend more also pay more.

You have removed most of the IRS and that saves a **** ton of government spending. You get rid of all of those lobbyists who are trying to get all those corporate income tax exclusions and, since you aren't supposed to **** around and add exemptions to the sales taxes, you don't need lobbyists to get those exemptions.

Nobody works less to pay less income tax, but they'll be inclined to spend less if they have to pay more in taxes.

Not, exactly, true. If I can invest in my company and hire 5 more people and increase my revenue by X%, but my profit on that extra revenue is less than my current rate of return on what I have already invested, what do I do? Take on the increased risks and liabilities for a lower RoR? Seems unlikely. I look at other alternatives. So, while I'm not "technically" working less to pay less income tax, but it is, certainly, a consideration.
 
1 ) Shrink the government and its agencies and transfer payments.
All for shrinking government, what do you mean by transferring payments?
DBS is using the term "transfer payments" as a noun. A transfer payment is when the government takes money from one person and gives it to another person when no production or creation of a good or service is involved. When the government takes some of my tax money and gives it to the professional welfare mom with her 12 kids who have 10 different fathers, that is a transfer payment. When the government takes some of my tax money and buys a tank, a copier, new carpet for the FBI office, that is not a transfer payment because a good or service is provided and some wealth is generated.

I'm not sure how the consumption tax works in reality. People consume many things (more or less) equally and in large amounts. If you increase the tax on those things significantly, you really screw those with less money.
The Federal and state taxes on cigarettes have been increased significantly in recent years. Statistics show that the lower your income the more likely you are to smoke and that blacks smoke at a higher rate than whites. Therefore the cigarette tax is racist.

A consumption tax is also a disincentive to spend money. Nobody works less to pay less income tax, but they'll be inclined to spend less if they have to pay more in taxes.
However the idea is that a national consumption tax would replace both the Federal income and Social Security taxes. Your net pay would be higher and you would just be paying the same relative amount in tax in a different way. It would give people an incentive to make more money, plus everyone working should really do better since the economy is likely to grow under that scenario. The only ones screwed are people who don't want to work. Which would be racist.

Not, exactly, true. If I can invest in my company and hire 5 more people and increase my revenue by X%, but my profit on that extra revenue is less than my current rate of return on what I have already invested, what do I do? Take on the increased risks and liabilities for a lower RoR? Seems unlikely. I look at other alternatives. So, while I'm not "technically" working less to pay less income tax, but it is, certainly, a consideration.
I know for a fact that some of the larger franchisees in my company have told the home office to take their (kinda sorta) mandatory annual sales increases and stuff them up their *** because they're not going to hire that 50th person and be subject to BommaCare. If they did that they would lose money. Therefore they stay at 49 employees, turn down work if they have to, and pocket the money they would normally spend on advertising to grow their business. I wish I was in a market that was that good.
 
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and tax accountants and arktuaries. After my last few correspondences with accountants, I'm less concerned..

Just imagine if we unleashed the power and talent of all the accountants toward helping people and businesses make money instead of having the goal of mostly minimizing taxes.
I pay my CPA money every year for only three reasons. I can DO my taxes, it ain't that hard. 1) Having a licensed CPA sign your tax return greatly lessens the odds of being audited when you are self-employed. 2) If I do get audited he will represent me for no charge. 3) Occasionally I have a stupid question about accounting. "Dammit Jim, I'm an economist not an accountant!"
 
Therefore, while you might pay a 10% sales tax on the item, the price, likely dropped along the same lines. Now, everyone pays something, and the evil rich that spend more also pay more.

But if a guy making $500k and paying $200k in income taxes now pays consumption tax instead, how do you get even $150k in tax revenues from him? Wouldn't the rate have to be 30+% and wouldn't he have to spend every last dime?
 
But if a guy making $500k and paying $200k in income taxes now pays consumption tax instead, how do you get even $150k in tax revenues from him? Wouldn't the rate have to be 30+% and wouldn't he have to spend every last dime?

I don't think it would have to be 30% unless you didn't include the idea that Congress can still spend more than a trillion dollars than they should be spending. When you rolled back federal spending to something reasonable, you should, get away with a lower number.

The site I will link below says 23%, but then calls it 30%. It includes a "prebate" which adds a progressive component. It is designed to prevent people at the poverty level from, effectively, paying any tax. I'm not endorsing that, particular proposal, just using it as an example.

In any event, if the guy making $500k is paying $200k in taxes, he needs to fire his accountant. He is, likely, paying $100k, or less. To generate that from the Fair Tax, he would have to spend $435k of his income. Keep in mind, I don't care, at all, if he continues to pay $100k or not. The point is, if he wants to spend more, he pays a higher tax. If he wants to pay less in taxes, he spends less. His taxation is, essentially, up to him, although, at some point the money has to be spent by somebody on something. Maybe, the biggest point is that most of the IRS and the gajillion pages of tax regulations and incomprehensible forms are gone.

https://fairtax.org/about/how-fairtax-works
 
But if a guy making $500k and paying $200k in income taxes now pays consumption tax instead, how do you get even $150k in tax revenues from him? Wouldn't the rate have to be 30+% and wouldn't he have to spend every last dime?

You're also catching all the people who do not pay any tax. They still have to buy food, clothing, cars, etc. Currently drug dealers, gangbangers, Mafia, etc. do not pay their fair share. I would argue that the poor don't pay their fair share either except when it comes to cigarette and gasoline taxes, but in the Fair Tax book there is an exemption for lower income people.

***This just in. An IRS computer system has been hacked and taxpayer identities possibly stolen.***

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3098182/IRS-says-thieves-stole-tax-info-100-000.html

One more reason why it isn't the govt's business how much money anyone makes.
 
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