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Calling The SN Legal Team

My understanding is that the police were working off of a bad understanding of the law. There was a case in the Utah Supreme Court that held police agencies could not take samples from unconscious people based on the implied consent law and that to do so would constitute illegal search. What ever the case maybe, it can't be ignored that Law Enforcement Agencies and Police Unions have aggressively lobbied and filed court cases to weaken the 4th Amendment.
 
Pathetic....in other words par for the course with you. Well at least you addressed the probable cause.....oh wait...

You stupid, fat, lazy, ignorant cow ... a police officer does NOT need "probable cause" to demand a blood sample from a commercial driver involved in an accident. THAT IS WHY I CITED THE GODDAMN STATUTE, you bloated pig.

Further, even with probable cause, a driver MAY STILL REFUSE TO GIVE A BLOOD SAMPLE, YOU IGNORANT ****.

So to repeat:

(1) You are a stupid, fat, lazy, bloated, incorrect wanna-be cow, too stupid to understand the basic question Ron asked.
(2) Yet again, you were ***-raped in a debate on this forum.
(3) Your skills relative to the English language are as wanting as Hillary Clinton's campaign abilities.
(4) The beating to take when you try to debate a legal point would make Rodney King shake his head and say, "Shiiiiiit."
(5) And just like Rodney King, you are an ignorant, lazy, stupid assclown who deserves to choke on your own vomit.
 
Steeltime, just to be sure, how do you really feel?

LOL

Your consistent drubbing of the defenseless ElfiePolo seems almost unfair. She must have some esteem issues to like the abuse.

Thanks for your considerable efforts to educate the ********; I fear she is not worthy of your attempts.
 
You stupid, fat, lazy, ignorant cow ... a police officer does NOT need "probable cause" to demand a blood sample from a commercial driver involved in an accident. THAT IS WHY I CITED THE GODDAMN STATUTE, you bloated pig.
Elfie has been very busy on the board for the last week and obviously off his or her meds, so don't let it bother you.

(3) Your skills relative to the English language are as wanting as Hillary Clinton's campaign abilities.
That's funny right there.
 
What is the likelihood that you would be able to complete law school and pass the bar exam?

Zero. Thankfully, states have those protections in place to prevent selfish, lying scum - you - from ever representing somebody else's interests. And of course you make another basic grammatical mistake in your sentence - as I detail further, below, you're incredibly stupid.

Rule 4. Periods and commas ALWAYS go inside quotation marks.
Examples:
The sign said, "Walk." Then it said, "Don't Walk," then, "Walk," all within thirty seconds. He yelled, "Hurry up."


http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

elfiePoloLiarTard error number 1. Let's continue.



elfiePoloLiarTard, you have combined a grating, nonsensical comment with a palpable exhibition of your stupidity. I dare any person to find a comment as demonstrably idiotic, psychotic and imbecilic as elftard's idiotic comment, anywhere else on the internet. Specifically, I wrote in part:

Can you read, you ignorant cow? You stupidly ignored what I wrote and instead went on some rant. This is at least the 5th time I have pulled your pants down when you play amateur lawyer and write something incredibly stupid and wrong about the law.

Jesus Christ on a cookie, you better hope I'm a lawyer, since otherwise some other amateur lawyer wanna-be is ***-raping you on legal analysis. (I know, I know this line of thinking is hard to follow for you. Have a 3rd grader explain it.)

elfiePoloLiarTard error number 2.



Oh, elftard, another basic grammatical error. Basic, as in I knew this rule in 3rd grade. I guess you were too busy learning "White Man Responsible for all Evil" to learn basic rules of grammar, so let me give you the instruction you should have had at age 9:

Semicolons (;) separate independent clauses. Oh, right, you don't know what an independent clause is. An independent clause is a complete sentence, with a subject and a predicate. Yes, I forgot, you don't know what a subject and a predicate are. A subject is a noun which is the actor in the sentence, and the predicate is the verb describing the action taken by or inflicted on the subject. An example:

"Steeltime is beating elfiePoloTard like she's Rodney King." "Steeltime" is the subject in this sentence, "beating" is the predicate." See how easy that is?

elfiePoloLiarTard error number 3.

I realize your pathetic education failed to instruct you on the most basic rules of grammar, but for the love of God, learn to read. Once again, here is what I ACTUALLY WROTE, you miserable cow:



So, you fat, bloated, ignorant cow - I specifically pointed out, three times in the opening paragraphs, that the officer was wrong. But I know how to read, and was thus answering Ron's actual question:



So elfiePoloLiar, you (1) either failed to read or failed to understand what I wrote, and where such fault lies completely with you, you fat cow and (2) failed to read or understand the very basic question Ron asked, and that I answered. In law school, we learned the acronym, "RTFQ." That stands for "read the ******* question," elfiePoloLiar. You may wish to employ that advice, fat-***. Oh, and mix in a salad.

elfiePoloLiarTard error number 4.



Siiiigh ... yet another basic grammatical error, you moron. The single quotation mark - ' - is used only to denote a quotation within a quotation. An example:

Steeltime pointed out, "When elfiePoloLiarTard stated, 'I am to stupid to be a lawyer,' she committed another embarrassing grammatical gaffe. elfiePoloTard's second grade English teacher weeps ..."

elfiePoloLiarTard error number 5.



So-called "logical punctuation" is nothing more than an excuse for those too uneducated, lazy and stupid to adhere to basic rules of grammar. And the idea that some fat cow (you) know more about "logical punctuation" than I do is comedy gold, Jerry. ee cummings was a very, very early proponent of non-standardized English, i.e., the lack of capitalization and punctuation. In college, where I earned a degree in English (not as marketable as your degree in "Da White Man Evil," no doubt), we discussed and indeed debated non-standardized English.

An English teacher I liked a lot pointed out that the rules of grammar are designed to insure uniformity of style, organization, order and case. The point of such uniformity is to guarantee precision in expression, among all who communicate in English. English does not have gender or case at all (gender) or to the extent as do Latin, Italian, German, and French (case). Languages with gender and case use declensions of the nouns and verbs to insure accuracy as to the actor, the action, descriptive terms, and the object of the action. English does not have such language tools, so to insure accuracy of message, English focuses upon the order of the nouns and clear indications of case, as far as the English language recognizes case (subjective, objective primarily).

The conclusion in my English class was that non-standard English, one aspect of which has been re-named "logical punctuation," was that those trying to justify their lack of knowledge of English rules of grammar or punctuation were merely trying to excuse their laziness and lack of knowledge. Seriously, can you imagine any other area of study trying to justify failing to follow basic rules?

elfiePoloLiarTard error number 6.

I am of course not surprised that a fat, lazy cow like you would veer towards laziness and inaccuracy in grammar and punctuation. Try to remember Dean Wormer's advice, elfiePoloTard: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life."



Once again, you reveal your ignorance. Every legitimate publication continues to use standardized English.

Please find a New York Times article or a Washington Post article following your "logical, i.e., fat, lazy and stupid punctuation."

Go ahead. I'll wait.

elfiePoloLiarTard error number 7.

I can't tell you how long I was waiting for this. Thank you sir
 
You stupid, fat, lazy, ignorant cow ... a police officer does NOT need "probable cause" to demand a blood sample from a commercial driver involved in an accident. THAT IS WHY I CITED THE GODDAMN STATUTE, you bloated pig.

Further, even with probable cause, a driver MAY STILL REFUSE TO GIVE A BLOOD SAMPLE, YOU IGNORANT ****.

So to repeat:

(1) You are a stupid, fat, lazy, bloated, incorrect wanna-be cow, too stupid to understand the basic question Ron asked.
(2) Yet again, you were ***-raped in a debate on this forum.
(3) Your skills relative to the English language are as wanting as Hillary Clinton's campaign abilities.
(4) The beating to take when you try to debate a legal point would make Rodney King shake his head and say, "Shiiiiiit."
(5) And just like Rodney King, you are an ignorant, lazy, stupid assclown who deserves to choke on your own vomit.

You just can't help it can you? You were humiliated here in front of your friends, so now it's all or nothing.

For the last time; the police CAN NOT DRAW BLOOD WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE AND A WARRANT, OR CONSENT you stupid god damn hood legal aid office tampon fetcher.

The requirement in the D.O.T. regulation is FOR THE EMPLOYER TO ADMINISTER THE TEST NO MATTER WHO IS SUSPECTED OF BEING AT FAULT you incompetent clown. The time frame given in the regulation is FOR THE EMPLOYER you ******* granite headed Trumptard.

And that's because the employer can demand it contractually as condition to employment, THE EMPLOYER IS NOT A GOVERNMENT ENTITY ENGAGED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, SUCH AN ENTITY IS BOUND BY THE CONSTITUTION AND THEREFORE THE 4TH YOU ******* MORON.

The police can ONLY administer the test within that time frame IF THEY HAVE A WARRANT, WHICH THEY ATTAINED BECAUSE THEY HAD P.C. that the surviving driver was under the influence you vile ignorant piece of excrement.

Again from the Federal D.O.T.

A highway accident is generally investigated by a Federal, State, or local law enforcement agency that may determine that probable cause exists to conduct alcohol or controlled substances testing of a surviving driver. The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) believes that testing done by such agencies will be done to document an investigation for a charge of driving under the influence of a substance and should be allowed to substitute for a FHWA-required test. The FHWA expects this provision to be used rarely.

I tire of bringing out the paddle for your sorry little reamed out ***, but oh well here we go putz:
 
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The police can ONLY administer the test within that time frame IF THEY HAVE A WARRANT, WHICH THEY ATTAINED BECAUSE THEY HAD P.C. that the surviving driver was under the influence you vile ignorant piece of excrement.
You'd be wrong there because you assume and don't read. There was no probable cause that the surviving driver was under the influence of anything or did anything wrong. The truck driver in the hospital was minding his own business driving down the road when the suspected drunk driver who the police were chasing crossed into his lane and hit him head on. The only reason to get a blood test on the truck driver was that (as Steeltime pointed out in his first post) the law says that any commercial driver involved in a fatal accident must be tested. Granted he was unconscious and could not consent to a test but as Steeltime said, they have 8 hours to be tested thus giving the police plenty of time to get a search warrant as per the law and their agreement with the hospital. If the cop knew the law, as he should, there was no hurry and no reason to give the hospital staff a hard time.

You're arguing about something that doesn't need to be argued about simply because you don't like everybody else who weighed in. Now go take your meds, write your book, and STFU.
 
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With a CDL you always get taken to the hospital for a blood test in a major accident.
 
You'd be wrong there because you assume and don't read. There was no probable cause that the surviving driver was under the influence of anything or did anything wrong. The truck driver in the hospital was minding his own business driving down the road when the suspected drunk driver who the police were chasing crossed into his lane and hit him head on. The only reason to get a blood test on the truck driver was that (as Steeltime pointed out in his first post) the law says that any commercial driver involved in a fatal accident must be tested. Granted he was unconscious and could not consent to a test but as Steeltime said, they have 8 hours to be tested thus giving the police plenty of time to get a search warrant as per the law and their agreement with the hospital. If the cop knew the law, as he should, there was no hurry and no reason to give the hospital staff a hard time.

You're arguing about something that doesn't need to be argued about simply because you don't like everybody else who weighed in. Now go take your meds, write your book, and STFU.

No, you're wrong. And I'm not going to keep repeating the same things over and over.

You said: "The only reason to get a blood test on the truck driver was that (as Steeltime pointed out in his first post) the law says that any commercial driver involved in a fatal accident must be tested. Granted he was unconscious and could not consent to a test but as Steeltime said, they have 8 hours to be tested thus giving the police plenty of time to get a search warrant as per the law and their agreement with the hospital."

Yes they must be tested whether or not they are at fault BY THEIR EMPLOYER. The police have no reason to be demanding a test ,they had no P.C. to obtain a warrant. The driver was not suspected of anything , he was the victim in this case.

Why can you people not comprehend that?
 
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Why can you people not comprehend that?

Why do you not comprehend that the police don't need probable cause to test a commercial driver who is involved in an accident?

With a CDL you always get taken to the hospital for a blood test in a major accident.
Steelerfan81 is a truck driver. I'll take his word and the lawyer's over yours.

Your own quote:
Again from the Federal D.O.T.

A highway accident is generally investigated by a Federal, State, or local law enforcement agency that may determine that probable cause exists to conduct alcohol or controlled substances testing of a surviving driver. The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) believes that testing done by such agencies will be done to document an investigation for a charge of driving under the influence of a substance and should be allowed to substitute for a FHWA-required test. The FHWA expects this provision to be used rarely.
That doesn't sound like the employer is the one doing the testing and investigating.
 
The Elftwatpigtard is the new Pop/Glen. That thing got double-Lucilled.
 
Why do you not comprehend that the police don't need probable cause to test a commercial driver who is involved in an accident?

Just stupid......................what more can I add to make you understand?


Steelerfan81 is a truck driver. I'll take his word and the lawyer's over yours.

Yes the EMPLOYER HAS TO AUTHORIZE the test....what do you not understand?

Your own quote:

That doesn't sound like the employer is the one doing the testing and investigating.

Jesus......
Guidance for § 382.303: Post-accident testing.

Question 1: Why does the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) allow post-accident tests done by Federal, State or local law enforcement agencies to substitute for a §382.303 test even though the FHWA does not allow a Federal, State or local law enforcement agency test to substitute for a pre-employment, random, reasonable suspicion, return-to-duty, or follow-up test? Will such substitutions be allowed in the future?

Why would a law enforcement test be a substitute for 303?

§382.303 Post-accident testing.
(a) As soon as practicable following an occurrence involving a commercial motor vehicle operating on a public road in commerce, each employer shall test for alcohol for each of its surviving drivers:

(d)(1) Alcohol tests. If a test required by this section is not administered within two hours following the accident, the employer shall prepare and maintain on file a record stating the reasons the test was not promptly administered. If a test required by this section is not administered within eight hours following the accident, the employer shall cease attempts to administer an alcohol test and shall prepare and maintain the same record. Records shall be submitted to the FMCSA upon request.

(2) Controlled substance tests. If a test required by this section is not administered within 32 hours following the accident, the employer shall cease attempts to administer a controlled substances test, and prepare and maintain on file a record stating the reasons the test was not promptly administered. Records shall be submitted to the FMCSA upon request.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrie...=L&mc=true&=PART&n=pt49.5.382#se49.5.382_1303

And we're done, or are you going to continue this game?
 
Jesus......
Guidance for § 382.303: Post-accident testing.

Question 1: Why does the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) allow post-accident tests done by Federal, State or local law enforcement agencies to substitute for a §382.303 test even though the FHWA does not allow a Federal, State or local law enforcement agency test to substitute for a pre-employment, random, reasonable suspicion, return-to-duty, or follow-up test? Will such substitutions be allowed in the future?
Mmmkay, so the FHWA does allow for law enforcement agencies to test commercial drivers. Your quote.

And we're done, or are you going to continue this game?
I think we all agree that the cop was wrong. You're just looking for reasons to argue with people though. Maybe double up on the Adderall and see if that helps.
 
Mmmkay, so the FHWA does allow for law enforcement agencies to test commercial drivers. Your quote.


I think we all agree that the cop was wrong. You're just looking for reasons to argue with people though. Maybe double up on the Adderall and see if that helps.

Law enforcement is required to test per the D.O.T., but they can't test without consent or a warrant. It's sort of like DUI checkpoints that are pushed by the Feds on locals(do you want your funding to continue?) but you can't be forced to comply, and they can't force the issue if you've done nothing wrong.

Again, the constitution trumps any regulation.

 
Law enforcement is required to test per the D.O.T., but they can't test without consent or a warrant.
Which is what Steeltime said in his first post but you had to start an argument about it.
 
Which is what Steeltime said in his first post but you had to start an argument about it.

a police officer does NOT need "probable cause" to demand a blood sample from a commercial driver involved in an accident. THAT IS WHY I CITED THE GODDAMN STATUTE
, ---steeltime post #27 on this page

Hey, keep believing the "lawyer".
 
, ---steeltime post #27 on this page

Hey, keep believing the "lawyer".

Law enforcement is required to test per the D.O.T., but they can't test without consent or a warrant.
Again, they are required to test but you have the option of refusing the test but at risk of losing your job and CDL.

Again, the constitution trumps any regulation.
Except when it comes to guns, apparently.
 
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First of all douche nozzle residue; I was merely stating my opinion. And as I've repeatedly told you I have no desire to join your ilk in the ambulance chasing/hood legal aid / coffee fetcher "profession". (< yes, period AFTER quotation marks)

Now on to the pointless exercise of addressing your stupidity:

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/382.303

From the Federal D.O.T.


Guidance for § 382.303: Post-accident testing.

Question 1: Why does the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) allow post-accident tests done by Federal, State or local law enforcement agencies to substitute for a §382.303 test even though the FHWA does not allow a Federal, State or local law enforcement agency test to substitute for a pre-employment, random, reasonable suspicion, return-to-duty, or follow-up test? Will such substitutions be allowed in the future?

Guidance:

A highway accident is generally investigated by a Federal, State, or local law enforcement agency that may determine that probable cause exists to conduct alcohol or controlled substances testing of a surviving driver. The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) believes that testing done by such agencies will be done to document an investigation for a charge of driving under the influence of a substance and should be allowed to substitute for a FHWA-required test. The FHWA expects this provision to be used rarely.






What kind of lawyer but; a washed up, alcoholic, ambulance chasing, grocery store tampon fetcher for the girl paralegals at the hood legal aid office, MORON, is incapable of comprehending that THE U.S. CONSTITUTION IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND? Could his handle be....ahhhhh......STEELTIME? The scumbag cop here had NO probable cause, hell he had NO reasonable suspicion!

Steeltime is now exposed...he is NOT a lawyer. Hell, I seriously doubt he could handle the tampon fetching and toner replacing/toilet scrubbing for the paralegal girls. Not knowing that a federal regulation does not trump the 4th is like a plumber not knowing what a monkey wrench is......EXPOSED.

How in the hell does anyone; even someone NOT posing as a lawyer on the internet, believe that police have a right to conduct a search without probable cause or consent? There was no reason for the cop to draw blood NONE. Again just another bully/power trip/ tiny penis/ douchebag...yes like Steeltime, only stupider if anyone can believe that is possible.

He wanted to be on the cops side though because he is a CONservative, and so inherently a fascist.
Like I have always said on this board ' CONservatism is incompatible with liberty.'

Speaking of fascism you grammar Nazi: do you know what logical punctuation is? Of course you don't...of course not. Probably because you haven't been to school since the 1950's, and you were unaware that usage in that context is FLEXIBLE. The only reason periods and commas are put inside quotation marks is because typeset from the 1800's had smaller cast pieces for commas and periods. The quotation mark pieces were the same size as letters, so they were used on the outside to keep the periods and commas from moving. It was made a "rule" even though it's logically inconsistent(just like you).

So, again it makes sense that your understanding of ANYTHING would be based on 19th century knowledge....you are a CONservative.

****.
 
For the last time; the police CAN NOT DRAW BLOOD WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE AND A WARRANT, OR CONSENT you stupid god damn hood legal aid office tampon fetcher.

You conflate (that means "confuse") the circumstances wherein the police officer may demand a blood sample, from those situations where the person ordered to give the sample is required to do so and CANNOT refuse. Why? Because you are a stupid wanna-be lawyer.

Specifically, 49 Code of Federal Regulations Section 382.303 requires that law enforcement administer a blood-alcohol content test to any driver operating a commercial vehicle involved in a CMV accident within the United States or designated portions of Canada. Unless the officer witnessed the accident, he or she cannot establish probable cause, but still is required - REQUIRED, you fat **** - to demand the blood sample. Once again, the driver may refuse and face the consequences. The law specifically does NOT require probable cause for the sample to be demanded. Jesus, READ THE ******* STATUTE. Moron.

A peace officer may also demand a blood sample or breath test from a driver based on the driver's own perceptions - how the driver was operating the vehicle, smelling alcohol on the driver's breath after arriving at an accident, scene, etc. Once again, the driver MAY REFUSE TO GIVE THE SAMPLE, but with specified consequences, usually loss of driving privileges in a related DMV hearing.

Finally, if the City Attorney for District Attorney (CA's handle misdemeanors in California, DA's felonies) appears before a judge and obtains a warrant based on a showing of probable cause, then law enforcement is now empowered to FORCE the person to give the sample. They can do so by holding the person still while getting a mouth swab, for example.

Therefore, there are three (3) standards for giving a blood or breath sample:

1. The no-probable cause basis, such as accidents involving CMV drivers, where the driver can refuse.
2. The non-court determined probable cause, mainly observations by the officer, where the driver can refuse.
3. The court-determined probable cause and issuance of a warrant, where the suspect CANNOT refuse.

Get it? This is why going to law school matters. Lawyers learn to pay attention to the details, read and UNDERSTAND the statute, read and UNDERSTAND controlling case authority, and answer the actual question in dispute.

Now go back to your bon-bons, fat-***.
 
In other cop news, I got pulled over a couple days ago for speeding and rolling through a stop sign. ( The HORROR!). I was in my neighborhood, only a quarter mile from my house. I have WHITE PRIVELEGE. He showed me some professional courtesy and let me go with a verbal warning. *fist pump*

fixed it for you
 
What kind of lawyer but; a washed up, alcoholic, ambulance chasing, grocery store tampon fetcher for the girl paralegals at the hood legal aid office, MORON, is incapable of comprehending that THE U.S. CONSTITUTION IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND? Could his handle be....ahhhhh......STEELTIME? The scumbag cop here had NO probable cause, hell he had NO reasonable suspicion!

Steeltime is now exposed...he is NOT a lawyer. Hell, I seriously doubt he could handle the tampon fetching and toner replacing/toilet scrubbing for the paralegal girls. Not knowing that a federal regulation does not trump the 4th is like a plumber not knowing what a monkey wrench is......EXPOSED.

You let a liberal rant long enough and their racist and sexist natures reveal themselves.
 
washed up, alcoholic, ambulance chasing, grocery store tampon fetcher, hood legal aid office, MORON, tampon fetching and toner replacing/toilet scrubbing for the paralegal girls.

Makes me glad I have this class act on ignore, now if I could get yinz to ignore her too..... mabe she'd just go away.

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Makes me glad I have this class act on ignore, now if I could get yinz to ignore her too..... mabe she'd just go away.

I hear 'ya, Chip, but pounding elfiePoloLiar is too much fun. Yes, yes, it is an easy chore, I get that, but still - slamming a liberal intellectual pretender wanna-be is just too damn fun.

tenor.gif


Fat, drunk and stupid elfiePolo decides to enter another debate. Bad idea ...
 
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