Cam, rising or falling………………..HOF ?

[Polambertberger]

They sit near each other on their respective positional stat lists

They sit near each other in playoff futility

It is what it is, yinz just hit dem black and gold glasses on…the more people protest the more I see the truthiness of the original tongue in cheek statement

All pro, pro bowls and other meaningless items have zero validity n player assessments…zero

I will agree that pro bowl is a joke......big time joke but look at the all pro list year in year out. It's the closest voting list to accurately naming who the best is. If a legendary QB is having an off year he may get to the pro bowl but he ain't getting all pro. All Pro does matter. It's one of the few voting awards I pay attention to. Now maybe one day it becomes dog **** too but as of now it's a reputable recognition dude. As far as taking over a game are you ever gonna say that about a center? How about a Guard? How about a Nose Tackle? He doesn't play a takeover the game position. He's doing a lot of dirty work If you want to compare Cam to someone else that also doesn't wow you then use your brain and come up with another example but Dalton ain't an intelligent one. You might be tge only person who doesn't realize this which may be the reason why it's difficult for you to come up with a better example

 

[Polambertberger]

In fact I'd say if you wanted to compare Dalton to a Steeler, DK would be a better pick......fantastic some games, head scratches other games but in the end a better than avg receiver who can light it up some games but in the end isn't one of the best......he's like a Dalton....but Cam sorry bad example......and I'm talking prime Dalton

 

[Drink IRON City]

The defense does what they practice all week to do. Coaching matters also

Coaching and scheme have a GREAT deal to do with it.

Let’s focus on the Tomlin scheme. That scheme took / lessened / minimalized many players.

Ben Rothlisberger was minimized until he took things into his own hands.

TJ Watt has been minimized as well, same place / same moves nothing more.

Najee Harris / the Pickens / Friermuth / plus others, minimized along the beaten path.

Tomlin’s defensive side of the ball the biggest profile player would be Fitzpatrick, just waisted him away deep center field.

NO middle of the field both offense and defense, and many other purgatory players.

Fast forward to current coaching, we have yet to see what they are putting on the field but most indications show something better.

Looking forward to many many more HOF inductees.




Salute the nation

 

[topseed]

I'm a little surprised regarding posters assessment of Cam getting in or not. I think the question was does he have enough to get in, not do you think he should get in based upon your personal feelings.

Yes, it's so surprising that people would base their opinions on their own personal feelings on a message board. Imagine that.

 

[Polambertberger]

He’s good
Even dominant a few-handful of games a year, again, never when it counts.

It would be interesting to see who were the chum…..ps he was feasting on in those few-handful of dominant games a year. All the years melt into a dream and I can only think of a couple games he just took over like a legendary player just does. He should be behind James Harrison in line, that’s for sure.

He’s good, and a solid run defender
He’s not feared or dominant weak in week out like a HOFer should be though imo

Much like an Andy Dalton

Two guys who had long stat filled careers and done sooooo little.

He’s not a guy I think of when I think of the top 10-15 all time…maybe in that 25-30ish range, which is ironically where Dalton’s production puts him

Honestly do you even watch football? Like seriously do you even watch football? Dalton is top 25 to 30 all time? LMAO............because his total stats in yards put him there? Do you realize how good the 25th QB of all time is? It's light years better than Andy Dalton......I really don't think you watch football at all

 

[Polambertberger]

Around 25th all time are guys like Tarkenton, Moon, Kelly.....something like that

Sorry Dalton ain't even top 50 all time

 

[WindyCitySteel]

When the defense has stunk in basically every one of those games, yes, the defensive captain will be associated with playoff failures.

Well, then, let's clear some room in the halls in Canton.

Dick Butkus, Joe Thomas, Gale Sayers, Floyd Little, and Jack Butler never appeared in a playoff game, let alone won one. Dozens more in the HOF w/o a playoff win, including Calvin Johnson, OJ Simpson, Dick LeBeau, Willie Roaf, and Deacon Jones.

 

[Polambertberger]

Playoff wins as far as HOF voters are concerned are extremely overrated relative to how a lot of this board thinks. I'm telling you All Pro is one of the biggest if not the biggest factor. For skill positions stats take on a bigger factor cause if you run for 1100 yards or 1800 yards you don't have to even look at the games to realize an 1800 yard rusher is flat out dominant but for guys like Cam and especially offensive lineman, the All Pros take on huge weight because what they are looking at is their prime stretch which is a 5 to 7 year window and we're they or were they not one of the top.3 guys in that era......that's where the All Pros come into play.....pro bowls are a joke of a vote but the all Pros in the end say to a future voter was he one of the very best yes or no. Do you really think a voter 6 or 7 years from.now is gonna watch interior line play of Cam ......no he wont........and do you think he even watched much of Cams play when he was active? Most likely not.....and even if he did watch those games did he pay attention to him? No he didnt......they justblook back.and say oh wow he had 100 sacks and was all pro 1st team 5x and 2nd team 2x......that's pretty f-ing great......then they compare those numbers to.the other interior lineman sacks and all.pros and say oh man he should get in.........add to that he's won the Payton award and they will have a desire to vote for the good guy........just like they won't want to vote for head case AB even though he was more dominant at his position than Cam ever was. He's in like Flynn

 

[SteelerFan448]

Well, then, let's clear some room in the halls in Canton.

Dick Butkus, Joe Thomas, Gale Sayers, Floyd Little, and Jack Butler never appeared in a playoff game, let alone won one. Dozens more in the HOF w/o a playoff win, including Calvin Johnson, OJ Simpson, Dick LeBeau, Willie Roaf, and Deacon Jones.

Huh? I already said Heyward should be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I dont see Andy Dalton in the top 25 all time at his position even close. So Im not sure where you get that. Cam Heyward is like 5th all time for interior DL in sacks. As you said very solid against run. As someone else mentioned one of the best at knocking down the ball. Basically Fuji you are comparing a journeyman QB to a hof interior Dline. I dint think cam will be first ballot but in my mind hes a lock.

I get to the 25-30 range for Dalton by his stats.
24th and 26th in the importan ones,
Yards and TDs

Even more impressive given some of the dreadful teams and franchise he played with.

And I agree Dalton is more of a journeyman type QB in some regards, like the tail end of his career he’s been stringing out…it would be hard to walk away from teams wanting to hand you millions though. Through the mid portion of his career he’s was a good-very good QB…which is what Cam is 75% of most seasons, very good. Then Cam shows out 2-4 games a year like those pesky HOFers do (almost every week)

I can easily think of 20 DL that played that Cam isn’t really that close too in level of dominance

It’s always hard comparing stats for a player like Cam so I have to go with what I’ve seen. Is Cam an interior DL, is he a 3-4 end and get measured against end, or do we only measure him against other teams employing 2DL schemes??? A whole other debate which would likely be more interesting than how much daylight separates a good player like Dalton vs a very good player like Cam.

We will see how what accolades Cam’s career is punctuated by. My guess, without any playoff success at the end as an exclamation point, would be HOVG…the only question to me being if Dalton’s position (QB) and the Steeler bias of the HOF is enough to give a very good player like Dalton the edge over a very good player like Cam.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

In fact I'd say if you wanted to compare Dalton to a Steeler, DK would be a better pick......fantastic some games, head scratches other games but in the end a better than avg receiver who can light it up some games but in the end isn't one of the best......he's like a Dalton....but Cam sorry bad example......and I'm talking prime Dalton

Zero desire to talk about that dumazz DK, lmfao

This is a thread about Cam, and my apologies to anyone offended by a tongue in cheek statement that actually has some crazy parallels. I get the hard core homers that think every very good Steeler deserves in…that’s part of some people’s fandom.

If I wanted to do something stupid like talk about dumazz DK I’d do something really stupid and go into the politics forums

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Honestly do you even watch football? Like seriously do you even watch football? Dalton is top 25 to 30 all time? LMAO............because his total stats in yards put him there? Do you realize how good the 25th QB of all time is? It's light years better than Andy Dalton......I really don't think you watch football at all

This comment wreaks of a kid in his mom’s basement staying up too late

Lmfao

Reading comprehension and critical thinking are a thing you should explore

 

[deljzc]

Heyward and the Watt brothers are going to make the hall of fame. Pouncey will get in. I think DeCastro was good enough but his longevity is going to hold him back (you kind of have to be a longevity guy for offensive linemen to get in).

Jalen Ramsey has a decent shot.

And Roethlisberger of course.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I get to the 25-30 range for Dalton by his stats.
24th and 26th in the importan ones,
Yards and TDs

Even more impressive given some of the dreadful teams and franchise he played with.

And I agree Dalton is more of a journeyman type QB in some regards, like the tail end of his career he’s been stringing out…it would be hard to walk away from teams wanting to hand you millions though. Through the mid portion of his career he’s was a good-very good QB…which is what Cam is 75% of most seasons, very good. Then Cam shows out 2-4 games a year like those pesky HOFers do (almost every week)

I can easily think of 20 DL that played that Cam isn’t really that close too in level of dominance

It’s always hard comparing stats for a player like Cam so I have to go with what I’ve seen. Is Cam an interior DL, is he a 3-4 end and get measured against end, or do we only measure him against other teams employing 2DL schemes??? A whole other debate which would likely be more interesting than how much daylight separates a good player like Dalton vs a very good player like Cam.

We will see how what accolades Cam’s career is punctuated by. My guess, without any playoff success at the end as an exclamation point, would be HOVG…the only question to me being if Dalton’s position (QB) and the Steeler bias of the HOF is enough to give a very good player like Dalton the edge over a very good player like Cam.

Excellent post and thank you for all along the way, Fiji…..I appreciate you.!!!


It is amazing how close those two parallel each other as far as HOF qualifications.

One major deputation would be if Cam is able to join the 100-sack club ( I think he needs 8 more)

Will getting the 8 needed, will that be a single season or a two season acquirement ?

I do wish him success in all directions, but also realize Father Time will not be cheated.




Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

Heyward and the Watt brothers are going to make the hall of fame. Pouncey will get in. I think DeCastro was good enough but his longevity is going to hold him back (you kind of have to be a longevity guy for offensive linemen to get in).

Jalen Ramsey has a decent shot.

And Roethlisberger of course.

You forgot he most famous of them all……………………….

Dri Archer





Salute the nation