Conservative changes his mind when an issue personally affects him. Yes there is hope

[warriors42]

Back in those times everyone ptetty much had the same tech. The military has night vision, thermal imaging, and many other gadgets citizens wont have (rpgs, tanks, planes, grenades, drones, etc etc) no amount of will or want can overcome such a huge firepower disadvantage. The only chance would be military defectors, but they would need to be able to escape with some equipment. Someone mentioned russia. If they really wanted Afghanistan i am sure they would have no problem taking it.

I am not sure how to prevent this situation. Banning guns may help some , but crazy people will still find a way to do whatever.

What you don't seem to get is that the largest army in the world is the armed United States civilian. so if and when the time comes that we need to defend ourselves from the government we will have rpgs, tanks grenades drones ect ect. because we will have the ability to take them from the government.

 

[ark steel]

Amendment One, clearly an individual right..
Three, clearly individual right
Four, clearly individual right
Five, clearly individual right
Six, clearly individual right
Seven, clearly individual right
Eight, clearly individual right
Nine, delineates that there are other individual rights not enumerated here
Ten, give the power to the states if not delegated to the feds by the constitution...

out of the first 9 rights,eight of them are clearly INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS. No, specific mention in the bill of rights to a non-individual until #10. So, we are supposed to believe the 2nd one is NOT an individual right? Keep in mind, the Constitution is not GRANTING these rights, It enumerates that these rights belong to the PEOPLE and are not susceptible to being removed by the federal government.

 

[ark steel]

What you don't seem to get is that the largest army in the world is the armed United States civilian. so if and when the time comes that we need to defend ourselves from the government we will have rpgs, tanks grenades drones ect ect. because we will have the ability to take them from the government.

The Afghans and ISIS seemed to do OK. for a while, anyway.

 

[DBS1970]

What you don't seem to get is that the largest army in the world is the armed United States civilian. so if and when the time comes that we need to defend ourselves from the government we will have rpgs, tanks grenades drones ect ect. because we will have the ability to take them from the government.

1 ) Correlation of forces. Way more armed citizens than soldiers.

2 ) Logistics. People will not just hand over food, fuel and supplies.

3 ) Proximity. They will not be prosecuting the war form the other side of the world. We will be able to strike the head of the snake.

 

[Sarge]

Back in those times everyone ptetty much had the same tech. The military has night vision, thermal imaging, and many other gadgets citizens wont have (rpgs, tanks, planes, grenades, drones, etc etc) no amount of will or want can overcome such a huge firepower disadvantage. The only chance would be military defectors, but they would need to be able to escape with some equipment. Someone mentioned russia. If they really wanted Afghanistan i am sure they would have no problem taking it.

I am not sure how to prevent this situation. Banning guns may help some , but crazy people will still find a way to do whatever.

You do realize that you can buy NVG's online, right? Plus, there is a black market where you can pick up all kinds of goodies. As far as Russia and Afghanistan, Russia was ruthless. They brought all they had to bear on the Afghans. You know what changed that war? When we gave the Afghanis Stinger Missiles. Took away the Russian's air superiority. You don't think some nation, somewhere wouldn't help the US citizens? It wouldn't be as lopsided as you think.

 

[Sarge]

What you don't seem to get is that the largest army in the world is the armed United States civilian. so if and when the time comes that we need to defend ourselves from the government we will have rpgs, tanks grenades drones ect ect. because we will have the ability to take them from the government.

Not only that, but there are loads of people, like myself and others on this board and the nation and world over, that know how to use this stuff.

 

[Iron95]

Years ago I was so pissed at the Steelers that I took the Steelers plate off of the front of my car. Guess what? I put it back.

Same thing.........

 

[Troglodyte]

This thread could also be about Tim Murphy. Further proof that just about everyone is pro-choice to some extent. In his case, he was pro-choice to the extent he eventually needed one.

 

[IndySteel]

Years ago I was so pissed at the Steelers that I took the Steelers plate off of the front of my car. Guess what? I put it back.

Same thing.........

When Korkey cried after Cowher benched him?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

This thread could also be about Tim Murphy. Further proof that just about everyone is pro-choice to some extent. In his case, he was pro-choice to the extent he eventually needed one.

He's resigning in two weeks.

 

[deljzc]

Part of the problem is liberal America thinks "gun culture" is only part of rural, white, NRA, America. And that if they fight THOSE people about guns, the violence will go away.

But black America has as much of a "gun culture" as any NRA carrying member. And liberals seem to think black Americas gun culture just doesn't exist or will naturally go away with more laws or completely ignore it all together (I mean, those aren't the "bad guys" in the gun debates).

The huge disparity in gun violence in this country vs. others has almost entirely to do with black-on-black violence. Other countries do NOT have that culture to deal with like America. Not as long or as entrenched in our society like it is here. I think Europe is headed that way because of recent immigration changes and you are seeing "gun violence" actually increase in Europe despite the laws against the weapons. Europe is seeing more gangs as the family unit disintegrates and thus more gang violence. And gangs won't play by any "gun rules". The natural evolution of gang violence is to eventually involve guns, illegal or not.

Liberals have made the NRA and rural, gun-tooting whites the enemy of change but the statistics clearly indicated without BLACK violence involving guns this issue wouldn't nearly be as extreme as people make it out to be.

 

[thesteelcity]

I still don't see how you stop a wealthy, no criminal history or mental health issues person from doing what this guy did. He had the means and ability to carry out this massacre under the radar.
What possible laws could be put in place to prevent this unless the number of owning firearms has a limit. That is a slippery slope. Anyone can go off anytime. We don't know who is lurking out there preparing for the next massacre. There's no right answer to this and is not just so easy, as many want tougher laws. It's just as possible to drive a vehicle with explosives into a building as it is to get 23 guns in to a hotel room to cause carnage.

 

[deljzc]

There can be just as much carnage using a simple delivery truck.

The act of trying to kill as many random people as possible is never going to be solved with gun control. Never. From the clock tower in Texas to the car bomb in Oklahoma to the truck driving down the road in France to a pressure cooker left in a corner mailbox in Boston. If you want to kill people strongly enough and don't make a mistake that the cops pick up on, you can do it.

The problem I have is that these random mass killings really have NOTHING to do with gun deaths in America which can be classified under three huge, different problems:

1. Suicides
2. Gang violence in cities
3. Accidental shootings

The liberal left likes to lump all this issues into a "gun issue" and blame the NRA and many Americans that strongly believe in the right to bear arms as the "problem" and "cause" of these issues when in reality rural America has very little to do with it. Rural, white America knows this and they HATE being blamed and lumped into issues that they strongly feel they can't control, guns or no guns.

Look, we can debate mass killings and how to solve them. We can debate gang violence and the gross amount of black-on-black violence (or more accurately brown-on-brown because hispanic gangs are involved too). We can debate the issue of suicide in this country (which I agree is a problem). We can debate how to reduce accidental gun deaths, especially in children.

But each of these debates involve a lot more detail than just "guns". And making gun rules about one issues won't solve the use of guns on the other.

That's why it's very difficult to get a word in on this debate. The left has grouped all these issues (and mass killings as well) into one, clean debate with one, big, bad boogeyman. And just like everything else liberal, the big, bad boogeyman just happens to be a position white middle America seems to support (or at least defend to some degree). This is the definition of divisive. And I don't think it's middle America's fault. Liberal coastlines consistently find blame for THEIR problems in the heartland of America and they do this by saying "You guys aren't allowing us to fix our problems the way we want to fix them". We want to fix our violence problems by taking away guns. We want to fix our schools by having more taxes. We want to fix our pollution by having more restrictions on environmental usage and raising energy costs.

And middle America says... "We don't have gun issues and use our guns productively and you can't take them away.". Middle America says "Our schools are fine and we don't want to keep paying more taxes.". Middle America says "There is plenty of land, our skies are clean, and there is plenty of energy just there for the taking to make our lives better".

These are simple examples to complex issues but our politicians reinforce and prey upon these very simple emotions. It is really our politicians faults for not trying to explain that we need to work together (the cities/coasts AND the heartland) to really make the country better. That if the heartland does better, the coasts do better and vice versa. That there can be compromise on issues that allow some flexibility in the law so states and do things differently (which is why our country is so great). That population centers can't bully rural areas into fixing their problems and vice versa.

That type of nirvana just seems so far away at this point.

 

[fedderone]

Forks don't make people fat.
Pens don't offend people.

Why isn't anyone talking about the fact that the Vegas shooter, along with all the other mass shooters here in the states, were all prescribed psychotropic drugs?
Oh, it won't be covered on your nightly news from the big four broadcasters, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, etc.
It also won't be addressed by any member in congress.
Why?!
Because ALL of them get money from pharmaceutical companies. Notice those commercials? See how drug policy is poorly written and protects the Big Pharma companies and NOT the people/patients?

Address the REAL problem, and it's not guns.

 

[thesteelcity]

what was he taking and for what? I haven't heard anything about this. His GF said he would lay in bed screaming. What the Hell is that about? Will we just be led to believe he was a freakin' wacko that lost it? He is as blank of a canvas as one can be. There has to be layers there that hasn't been uncovered and may not for quite awhile.

 

[deljzc]

Our society loves simple answers.

When it comes to psychology and violent actions it's not always simple. There is a reason some people need years of psychotherapy just to go from being functional but but depressed into maybe a more psychologically healthy person.

This isn't simple stuff. Shrinks take years of school and the good one read thousands of studies just to try and help people not **** up their next relationship or be self destructive.

Sure, some will say "Man up" and quit ******* around with serotonin drugs and face your demons, but there just isn't that type of one size fits all solution to brain function, depression, mood, anxiety, sexual health and all sorts of other stuff.

 

[Steeler Pride]

His GF said he would lay in bed screaming. What the Hell is that about?

ran out of Viagra or Cialis and couldn't get it up?

 

[Elfiero]

Our society loves simple answers.

When it comes to psychology and violent actions it's not always simple. There is a reason some people need years of psychotherapy just to go from being functional but but depressed into maybe a more psychologically healthy person.

This isn't simple stuff. Shrinks take years of school and the good one read thousands of studies just to try and help people not **** up their next relationship or be self destructive.

Sure, some will say "Man up" and quit ******* around with serotonin drugs and face your demons, but there just isn't that type of one size fits all solution to brain function, depression, mood, anxiety, sexual health and all sorts of other stuff.

After years of trying to educate the public on mental health issues we have a serious problem with people who will not view mental health as a serious issue. If you're depressed they say " Oh, you'll get over it." If you rage they say " Oh, tempers run in their family."

Imagine if you had a compound fracture in your leg and someone said "Oh, put a band-aid on it." His wife has stated that this guy would lay in bed and scream out, while awake mind you not nightmares. There was something seriously wrong with him and his wife sought NO help. If she had, maybe, just maybe, this tragedy would have never happened.

 

[Elfiero]

what was he taking and for what? I haven't heard anything about this. His GF said he would lay in bed screaming. What the Hell is that about? Will we just be led to believe he was a freakin' wacko that lost it? He is as blank of a canvas as one can be. There has to be layers there that hasn't been uncovered and may not for quite awhile.

Well I hadn't read this before I posted. If he was taking something it all makes sense now.

 

[DBS1970]

I still don't see how you stop a wealthy, no criminal history or mental health issues person from doing what this guy did. He had the means and ability to carry out this massacre under the radar.
What possible laws could be put in place to prevent this unless the number of owning firearms has a limit. That is a slippery slope. Anyone can go off anytime. We don't know who is lurking out there preparing for the next massacre. There's no right answer to this and is not just so easy, as many want tougher laws. It's just as possible to drive a vehicle with explosives into a building as it is to get 23 guns in to a hotel room to cause carnage.

Once you understand that the Neo-socialists stated goal is civilian disarmament and prohibition of the private ownership of weapons it becomes clear. They know that people with evil intent will find another means of creating mayhem. This isn't about public safety and it never has been, this is about being able to enforce control over the citizens of our country. Armed citizens will not willingly get on the train cars to be shipped off to "reeducation camps".

 

[Hines57]

I believe mental health is a major issue in our country and it largely gets glossed over. People do not want to care for those who can not care for themselves. We also do not know the breaking or trigger points for individuals who are not mentally well. We see famous people commit suicide each and every year. This is the first time someone with great wealth completely went off like this. Can it be repeated? Sure. The 24/7/365 news cycle glorifies this bullshit. That's not to say it should be buried and not talked about any further. We need a conversation not on the gun itself, but the man who pulled the trigger and how to catch people before getting to that point. If he was taking some type of mind altering drug or something with side effects, why are we not having a conversation about the dangers of the drug industry? Trying to ban guns is the easy way out. The root of the problem is not the gun, its the person who pulls the trigger.

 

[ark steel]

I believe mental health is a major issue in our country and it largely gets glossed over. People do not want to care for those who can not care for themselves. We also do not know the breaking or trigger points for individuals who are not mentally well. We see famous people commit suicide each and every year. This is the first time someone with great wealth completely went off like this. Can it be repeated? Sure. The 24/7/365 news cycle glorifies this bullshit. That's not to say it should be buried and not talked about any further. We need a conversation not on the gun itself, but the man who pulled the trigger and how to catch people before getting to that point. If he was taking some type of mind altering drug or something with side effects, why are we not having a conversation about the dangers of the drug industry? Trying to ban guns is the easy way out. The root of the problem is not the gun, its the person who pulls the trigger.

And these days, if you do think you need a little help, do you get it and risk your guns being confiscated?

 

[Iron95]

When Korkey cried after Cowher benched him?

Yea...........I think it was around that time period.