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The vaccines have concluded Phase III clinical trials.
Covid Vaccine
- Thread starter jitter77
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If we had a flu vaccine that was 99% effective in preventing flu deaths and 94% effective in preventing serious flu illness, don't you think we'd be strongly encouraging people to take it? Would you feel great knowing you put out a bunch of half truths and convinced people not to get it who then died from the flu? (I'm not saying that's what you're doing but many are).
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There are more reasons that that. mRNA is unstable and must be kept at -70 C at all times. This means the vaccine could denature and be ineffective. You could have people getting shots that were "spoiled" and wouldn't be protective. We also have no long term studies to back mRNA vaccines on humans. None. So there was no reason to risk mRNA vaccines until COVID but that in and of itself doesn't make mRNA vaccines safe, it just means they haven't been tested long term.There are reasons they haven't been approved for full use and most of it is because they aren't needed, either because there were cheaper and easier to manage options or because the illnesses just weren't all that contagious and died out on their own. The point is that this idea that we have no long term data on the safety of mRNA vaccines is not accurate.
So in a few months when this gets approved for full use you're good with them then. I'm relieved to know you'll finally be getting one.
BTW the guy that invented mRNA technology said this "This is a fundamental right having to do with clinical research ethics," he said. "And so, my concern is that I know that there are risks. But we don't have access to the data, and the data haven't been captured rigorously enough so that we can accurately assess those risks — and therefore … we don't really have the information that we need to make a reasonable decision. That's one of my other objections, is that we toss about these words, risk-benefit analysis, casually as if it's a very deep science. It's not. Normally, at this stage, the CDC [Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices] would have performed those risk-benefit analyses. They would be data-based and science-based. They're not right now," Malone said.
Malone also said he has "a bias that the benefits probably don't outweigh the risks" for younger people who are being encouraged or required to take the vaccine.
"I can say that the risk-benefit ratio for those 18 and below doesn't justify vaccines, and there's a pretty good chance that it doesn't justify vaccination in these very young adults," he added.
So we don't know the risks right now.
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Apples and oranges. The flu vax has been around for a long time. Would you try a new experimental mRNA flu vax that was rushed into production? That's the issue with the COVID vax.
If we did, sure. But that's a vaccine that is approved/tested. I know I keep banging that drum.
If this vaccine was approved, tested...we wouldn't be here. THAT is the only reason people are not all 100% taking it. Otherwise it would be a no brainer.
Where did you get his comments? Pretty powerful.
On a side note, I wonder if Floggy would consider the words of the man who invented mRNA technology saying the risk/benefit analysis says not to vaccinate those 18 and under?
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I’m still predicting that eventually this turns into a “The Deep State used Delta variant to kill red state voters” conspiracy theory.
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Well, here is what the FDA says:
Study Participants: 300 to 3,000 volunteers who have the disease or condition
Length of Study: 1 to 4 years
Purpose: Efficacy and monitoring of adverse reactions
Researchers design Phase 3 studies to demonstrate whether or not a product offers a treatment benefit to a specific population. Sometimes known as pivotal studies, these studies involve 300 to 3,000 participants.
Phase 3 studies provide most of the safety data. In previous studies, it is possible that less common side effects might have gone undetected. Because these studies are larger and longer in duration, the results are more likely to show long-term or rare side effects
Snooze fest but good.
One more time - the FIFTH time I have told you butt gerbils this undeniable fact - the people not getting the vaccine are most frequently minorities.
Liberals lie so ******* much they have no ability to realize the truth. The irony of those scum arguing that people should be kicked off social media for "disinformation."
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Jonas Salk tested the Polio on his own kids before testing it on the public. He’d be spinning in his grave over the moronic anti-Covid vaxers alright.
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Check this **** out, A British doctor discovered what the vaccine is doing to your blood. scary ****.
Covid-19 Blood Sample
Covid-19 Blood Sample
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LOL, Stew Peters and Dr. Jane Ruby, the quack who testified that the vaccine is magnetizing people.
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Strange you should argue so hard against the vaccine and then feel the need to point fingers at others for not being vaccinated. Why not own it?
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Sorry, I should have linked the article:
'Single most qualified' mRNA expert speaks about vaccine risks after he says YouTube banned his video
The man who invented the mRNA technology used in some coronavirus vaccines says he was censored by YouTube for sharing his concerns on the vaccines in a podcast.
He's not pointing the fingers at others not being vaccinated you cretin. He's correcting the misinformation you and Tiblio continue to share here. Both of you continue to point out that it's Republicans, or red staters, or hillbilly rubes that aren't vaccinated so as to make this political and point a finger at those you oppose idologically.
It is utter misinformation. It has been shown there is no link between vaccinations and political affiliation. Your own CNN stated this.
Then, the two of you, like the imbeciles you tend to be, double down and repeat the mantra.
So he's showing you facts...that the majority of people who are unvaccinated tend to be minorities. A fact provided by the CDC.
You don't even understand the difference between correcting misinformation and finger pointing.
But I'll finger point. The CDC says that the majority of the unvaccinated are minorities. Do not more minorities tend to vote Democratic v Republican? I'll wait.
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You have to get past that type of **** and look at the pictures that a physician supplied. I'm not saying that he's credible, i mean, he's a ******* loon like Alex Jones, but some of what these fringe guys show is legit. You just have to have a critical mind
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Sorry but anyone can fake pictures in this day and age. No I won't be taking the word of a woman who has claimed the vaccine was designed to murder people and causes you to become magnetized.
That show is a cesspool of lunacy. Google Stew Peters and Elizabeth Harding Weinstein. I happen to personally know this woman and she is certifiably insane.
But not too crazy for Stew I guess!
I'm curious, and I'm not picking on you. Not in the least. Asking.
Why are you so confident in these vaccines? Why I'm not:
Data shows they are not nearly as safe as all of the others we have. That's not disputable. More adverse events than all others combined for 30 years. That's a big deal.
The inventor of mRNA recommends not vaccinating kids. Says the risks outweigh letting kids get COVID.
There are warning labels on several of them now due to Myocarditis in kids.
3 or 4 other major nations refuse to give them to kids because the risks outweigh letting kids get COVID.
They are untested. We don't know the long term effects.
This is the first set of mRNA vaccines released for public use. There are long term unknowns.
You seem trusting and confident. Does this come from your conversations with the people you've referenced? Does it come from hope because your family has gotten the vaccines and you want to believe? Does it come from trust in the data you've read? Do you have sources I'm not aware of?
I'm just curious. Not pointing fingers, not judging, not condemning.
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This guy seems somewhat reasonable, though it appears his claim to have invented mRNA vaccines is a bit of a stretch. He does have real credentials and did it appears contribute to developing them. I think his view that the risk benefit doesn't make sense for children is a reasonable point of debate. He does seem to have quite a wacky anti-vaxxer following but I'll have to do a little more digging.Sorry, I should have linked the article:
'Single most qualified' mRNA expert speaks about vaccine risks after he says YouTube banned his video
The man who invented the mRNA technology used in some coronavirus vaccines says he was censored by YouTube for sharing his concerns on the vaccines in a podcast.news.yahoo.com
Good luck with that. And I don't mean anybody specifically here, but this **** has gotten so hyper-politicized, it's insane. How the hell anyone can decipher what's junk and what isn't is a truly wise (and lucky) soul. I have people around me with damn near hazmat suits on because they're terrified of this variant etc. Then I have people acting like the vaccine is some sinister thing wanting to take over our lives. I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle and there are some incredible minds in the medical/scientific field trying to do their best under an incredible amount of stress.
It's completely spiraled out of control. Cool heads in power need to get a handle on this somehow, but I don't know/see how that's gonna happen. We have a potato head and another who just knows how to give it at the controls right now.
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I've already gone over how you're misinterpreting the VAERS data, and why the numbers seem higher, so I don't agree that it's not disputable that these vaccines are not nearly as safe. Let me know when another vaccine goes into half the country's population in the stretch of a few months and then we'll compare the numbers. Once again, VAERS data are reports of events that happened sometime after getting a vaccine. They aren't reports of events caused by the vaccine.
The "inventor" of mRNA is one guy with one opinion. He hasn't been involved in the clinical trials of this vaccine to my knowledge.
You know what else causes myocarditis in young people? Covid. Remember when we all had a discussion about that when it was being caused by covid and we said it's a common condition that happens after a lot of viral illnesses and therefore we can't definitively conclude that covid was causing all of it? And anyway it's generally mild and most recover from it fully? Some don't even know when they have it? Remember that discussion? Would it shock me if there was an extremely small increased risk of any kind of inflammatory condition after a vaccine? No. That's how the immune system works. As long as they recognize it's a slight risk they can catch it and treat it. The benefits outweigh the risks.
I think the question of whether all young children should get the vaccine is still undetermined. Certainly any kid who is morbidly obese or has other high risk conditions should. I worry about the (very minor) effects my son still has from covid and what that might mean. My friend's son's fiance who was perfectly healthy in her 20s but still has no taste and smell and respiratory issues 6 months later. Is there cellular damage? Brain damage? I don't know. My kid's got a really good brain so I hope not.
My confidence comes yes from my friend in the pharma industry who looked into this extensively and couldn't wait to get his entire family vaccinated. His own beloved children. From my nurse practitioner friend who is the director of a clinic that serves the local Hispanic population and has seen numerous young healthy people get very, very sick and die of this. From my voracious reading and the fact that most of the anti-vaccine stuff I read has little basis in fact, regularly intentionally distorts facts and does not come from any kind of credible sources.
My general respect for the medical profession and science in general. Unlike some of you there's not a shred of me that thinks doctors and pharmaceutical researchers would purposely inject millions of people with something they knew was harmful. Call me crazy I believe they know a bit more about this stuff than I do. I don't think they're so evil that they'd harm people on purpose or conceal harmful effects just to make a few bucks.
Once again, how do you know that any medical treatment is safe in the long term without administering it to lots of people and waiting to see what the long term results are? You don't. If I'm gonna roll the dice on a vaccine that's been studied, developed by professionals and tested in tens of thousands of people or a viral illness that originated in the wild or a Chinese lab that has been proven to kill people and cause at least year long symptoms in many others, I'd take my chances with the former. Unfortunately covid caught up with me before the vaccine did, and I've been lucky that I don't seem to have any serious effects from it. Many others weren't so lucky.
Meanwhile aside from Ron Burgundy's sister I know of no one that has had any kind of serious effects from the vaccines. Out of the hundreds of people I know who have mostly gotten it. Anecdotal, yes. But we are at 80% vaccinated in my county and I haven't heard of a one. I work with the elderly and every single one of them has gotten it and not one story of an adverse effect yet.
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The fact that Potato Joe, and idiot nazis on this board, are calling for censorship of big tech is so Un-American, that it is unbelievable to me. The free flow of ideas has always been the hallmark of our open society. That ideal is now lost on a great many fools.
Unless this trend is reversed, real bad things are going to happen. Real bad things. History has shown us that when you start controlling speech, it is those with the biggest guns that ultimately win.
Unless this trend is reversed, real bad things are going to happen. Real bad things. History has shown us that when you start controlling speech, it is those with the biggest guns that ultimately win.
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Well I totally agree with you there. I don't want information censored. Misinformation should be called out and publicly proven wrong, not hidden from us because we are assumed to be too stupid to look at all the evidence and figure out the truth on our own. I hate misinformation but censorship is not the way to combat it. Legitimate debate is.