No kidding. Those effects must include tens of thousands of businesses being destroyed, millions out of work, tens of thousands of suicides, incalculable harm to students, government overreach, citizens being taught to act like sheep, and on and on.
Covid Vaccine
- Thread starter jitter77
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No kidding. Those effects must include tens of thousands of businesses being destroyed, millions out of work, tens of thousands of suicides, incalculable harm to students, government overreach, citizens being taught to act like sheep, and on and on.
My wife's father did 3 weeks ago. Not COVID
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The flu death rate is estimated to be .1%. Covid .6%.
Maybe because the death rate is 6 times as high? I think we average around 60,000 deaths/year from the flu, and that's with a vaccine that varies in effectiveness from something like 30-60% every year. Do you want to average 360,000 from covid every year?
And again, it seems there may be some long term effects from covid. I happen to think some of that is a bit exaggerated, any viral illness can have long term effects in some people. But if you can avoid that risk, why wouldn't you?
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Not true. And it also factors wildly by age as you know.
From the CDC itself, survival rates by age group for COVID are:
0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%
It really doesn't approach the figure you use until you get to the 70+ age range. Before that, drastically lower death rates.
I read an article today that said 3-3.5% of people may faint after injections. I don't know if that is common, but it is more than I would have guessed.
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Vaccines work on the concept of herd immunity. Strange that the same people saying herd immunity is a lie are the same ones saying that everybody needs to be vaccinated.
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Nobody’s saying herd immunity is a lie. They are saying that reaching herd immunity by mass infection would result in hundreds of thousands or millions of hospitalizations and deaths.
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Lots of people have said herd immunity is a lie.
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Huh I’ve never heard anybody say that. I’ve heard people say that achieving herd immunity through mass infection is not a good strategy for dealing with the virus.
I mean, almost all vaccines are based on the concept of herd immunity so I don’t know who would say it’s a lie.
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Those may be more recent figures than I have seen. Might even be lower since we have no idea how many people have actually contracted covid, but again, you guys are focused on death rates but there's a whole lot of other things to consider.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...text=COVID-19 symptoms can,within a few weeks.
Most people who have coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) recover completely within a few weeks. But some people — even those who had mild versions of the disease — continue to experience symptoms after their initial recovery.
These people sometimes describe themselves as "long haulers" and the condition has been called post-COVID-19 syndrome or "long COVID-19."
Older people and people with many serious medical conditions are the most likely to experience lingering COVID-19 symptoms, but even young, otherwise healthy people can feel unwell for weeks to months after infection. The most common signs and symptoms that linger over time include:
Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Cough
Joint pain
Chest pain
Other long-term signs and symptoms may include:
Muscle pain or headache
Fast or pounding heartbeat
Loss of smell or taste
Memory, concentration or sleep problems
Rash or hair loss
Just found out yesterday my brother-in-law's whole family who live in Alabama tested positive.. Dad had a fever for a day and is fine. Kids all have mild cold symptoms. My sister in law who is is in her late 40s, in perfect physical condition (probably the most fit person I know) with no underlying conditions, is on her 7th day of fever, terrible cough and congestion. They are monitoring her O2 levels at home. Will probably make a full recovery but it definitely sounds like something I'd rather avoid if I can.
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Hope she fights through okay One.
I'm kind of with you on this whole thing right now. This side of the board is going crazy. One thing to be strongly conservative. Another completely to deny elections, claim viruses are being exaggerated, vaccines don't work and promote a coup of the government.
I really enjoy this part of the site. But 2020 on here has been a bit obscene. I can only hope in 2021 things get back to somewhat normal and we can all just sit around and complain about how much of an idiot Biden is and discuss the 2022 elections like rational people.
I'm kind of with you on this whole thing right now. This side of the board is going crazy. One thing to be strongly conservative. Another completely to deny elections, claim viruses are being exaggerated, vaccines don't work and promote a coup of the government.
I really enjoy this part of the site. But 2020 on here has been a bit obscene. I can only hope in 2021 things get back to somewhat normal and we can all just sit around and complain about how much of an idiot Biden is and discuss the 2022 elections like rational people.
I don't know what you mean by normal, but Trump's legacy will include how he exposed the large scale corruption of the deep state and the media. I have watched a soft coup take place, I have seen the two tiered system of justice at work, and have seen large scale voter fraud exposed. I can't un-see any of that. There is a new normal for me, and it means resistance by any means necessary. We no longer have a republic.
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Herd immunity may or may not work, but it certainly does not work for viruses like the common cold or flu. There is also not enough data on the vaccine to know if it works or not. Things like do you need to get the vaccine every year, every 3 months, once, etc etc are not answered. Also the Ravens had 4 strains in their facility, will the vaccine be effective against all 4 and are their different levels of effectiveness vs different strains? With that being said the vaccine has a better / safer chance of working than relying on 80%+ of the population getting covid and hoping for the best.
The death rate for covid is low, but we can't see what is going on inside our bodies. Look at the FSU Bball player. He had covid before the season. Did the covid cause a heart infection or did he have some other condition that wasn't found before. I took my O2 level the other day and was reading at 94-96%. I tested positive on the 24th of November. I do not feel short of breath, but those numbers are low for me. Every one else even smokers were at 98/99%. Just don't think the virus is a good thing to play around with
The death rate for covid is low, but we can't see what is going on inside our bodies. Look at the FSU Bball player. He had covid before the season. Did the covid cause a heart infection or did he have some other condition that wasn't found before. I took my O2 level the other day and was reading at 94-96%. I tested positive on the 24th of November. I do not feel short of breath, but those numbers are low for me. Every one else even smokers were at 98/99%. Just don't think the virus is a good thing to play around with
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From everything I’ve read strains of covid appear to be similar in enough ways that the vaccines should work on all of them. These are not inactivated virus vaccines, they are vaccines that stimulate a response to the spike protein in covid which allows it to invade our cells, and is a universal feature. There’s only one way to learn about the duration of the vaccine and that’s to get a lot of people vaccinated. However, even if the protection doesn’t last that long, having lots of people immune for various periods of time would drastically slow the spread. It breaks the chain of exponential infection.
Or perhaps no one here has changed and you have. The long slow war has worn you down and you're now a Gubmint lemming?
No one here is crazy and you're over-exaggerating people's positions.
"Deny elections." Very strong and interesting choice of words, for someone who's a blogger and knows better. Speaking for me, I'm very suspicious. Denying the whole election? No. Should it be investigated? The fact you're willing to let it go? Worrisome.
"Claiming viruses are being exaggerated?" - tell me Del, I mean we've seen it now for nearly the full year - the virus being exaggerated. Colorado has been busted calling motorcycle and gunshot victims COVID deaths. Example 1,237 this year of such instances. The models all predicted millions of deaths in the USA. The politicians told us it would be 15 days to slow the curve. The experts told us that asymptomatic carriers were incredibly dangerous and just yesterday we learn that asymptomatic carriers spread 26x fewer cases than those symptomatic. I could fill a page with the lies, over-exaggerations, and inconsistencies. So answer me this - why is it bad to be skeptical about what we are fed? It's been a million lies followed by a thousand more and you're saying doubting their claims is nefarious? Really?
"Promote a coup of the government" - ok, I'm not. But even if I was...that's an odd statement. We watched 4 straight years of a COORDINATED coup attempt of the government, that in the end worked. A party illegally spied on a political opponent, weaponizing agencies against him; for 3.5 years they pushed a completely baseless, intentional, false narrative about Russia to remove him; the media worked for over 4 years to sully him; big tech worked to ensure he wasn't re-elected; he was impeached for asking the Ukraine to look into crimes Biden actually committed; and you have the nerve to say we are promoting a coup of the government? We just watched 4 years of it. I certainly can understand, given the situation, the opposition calling for the same...can't you?
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Agreed, del. You are one of the more rational, clear-headed conservatives on this board. Your words ring true, loud and clear. Although I disagree with you on Biden. I think he'll bring some much needed stability to the WH. I don't consider him an idiot at all. He'll do fine, and we'll be reminded of what this country is capable of without a deranged madman at the helm.
Sorry I think it's really dangerous, even here, to be spouting 0.6% and other false death rates when they are nowhere near that number. As someone said, words matter. People read, people repeat.
This disease is not that deadly. For certain age groups, yes. Overall? Not even close to that figure.
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There are people in this thread saying it has a 99% survival rate, maybe you should call them out for their "dangerous" statements as well. Like I said, I haven't seen the data in awhile. Do you have a link to your figures? I'd like to check them out. I've already acknowledged it's not that deadly in most people.
And you keep ignoring the fact that it isn't just about death, it's about illness, hospitalization, ICU admission, and reports of lingering effects, none of which I'm anxious to experience.
Once again, the death rate from measles is extremely low. It can cause pneumonia, encephalitis, deafness, and birth defects, so even though it is rare for someone to die of measles, there is still plenty of value in preventing measles from occurring if we can.
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Like I've said before, I'm not living in fear of getting this disease, and I don't think the shutdowns and masking are very effective in stopping the spread. I'm not a coronavirus Karen. But I don't see the logic in not taking a vaccine that has very strong safety and effectiveness data vs. rolling the dice with an illness that at least anecdotally goes very badly for some people. As stories pile up of people I know personally who have had at a minimum a very unpleasant experience with this illness, it seems pretty clear to me which option is less risky.
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Biden is a figurehead. Even you know that Tibs. I know Biden VERY well being from Delaware. His political positions go the way the wind blows more than any politician I know. Now maybe that's fine with you. Whatever pressure he feels that week, he will just appease the squeakiest wheel and pander to the electorate. Personally, I am really tired of that way of governing. Maybe you call that "normal" and "back to the way it used to be", but I can't stand it. Dumbs down the Republic much more than Trump's tweets in my opinion. And much more subtlely unless you're paying attention.
You have to admit the democrats have a lot of squeeky wheels right now. In fact the whole country (including Republicans if this board is any indication) is filled full of whiners right now.
I am SOOOO tired of the exaggerations. And Tibs, you were one of the WORST. All you did was whine about the "fall of our Republic" and how our "standing in the world" was falling apart. And our media is feeding the monster over and over and over again. Even though Covid is very serious, you have to admit the tone of the media and the constant cry-wolf culture the media has developed into is hurting more than helping this country.
We have to gain back some toughness in this country. I'm not saying stupid toughness. Or deniability. But there is a reckoning coming when even the slightest insult is exaggerated into some "sign of society's collapse" and racists are around every corner, everything problem is "systemic" and excuses are provided for every moral flaw, every criminal and every bad choice is life.
I will fight that type of thinking. The culture of "equality of outcome" is more important and "equality of opportunity" until my dying breath.
But unlike so many here, I am not fighting against science or logic. Masks helps. Vaccines work. There is some degree of man-made climate change. Covid is a really bad contagion. And Biden got more votes than Trump in the states that mattered.
I can admit all those things and still be a staunch Conservative Nationalist. Which is what I am calling myself now. I would say 90% of Trump's policies, positions and actions over his 4-year term promoted Conservative Nationalism. More than any republican in my lifetime. Trump, for all his flaws, still did some very good things and brought to light many of the issues I want addressed in this country that so many seem afraid (in the "gotcha" culture we live in) to broach and discuss.
1. There are social and cultural problems in the black community that are harming their ability to escape poverty and upward mobility.
2. Immigration is broken and needs fixed. Illegally crossing our border is a crime and should be punished as such.
3. The media is corrupt and is (whether intentional or not) an enemy of the people.
4. Free speech in the social media age will be the greatest threat to our liberty over the next 20 years.
5. Congress is broken and can not even accomplish basic tasks to maintain our Republic. We are being governed by executive orders and regulatory agencies passed down to the States, which are doing all the heavy lifting (some of which are failing).
6. If the federal government is doing LESS, they should collect less taxes.
7. South and Southest Asia will impact climate change over the next 50 years, 10 times (maybe even 20 times) more than the U.S. and E.U. combined. No domestic law passed in the U.S.; no "Green New Deal" , No "Paris Climate Accord" will change that. All those things do is take America's wealth and spread it out to corrupt governments (including our own).
8,. Policing and mass shootings are not nearly the problem statistically worth the energy invested by our culture into trying to fix them. It is a waste of resources. It is a true reflection of democrat's policies of pandering to the latest/greatest media outrage. In five years, there will be something else just like it. Based on race, subsets of Americans, or other "victim class".
9. "Victim class" lawmaking is a losing proposition that is not sustainable.
For me it's not that I'm an anit-vaxer, its that it hasn't been tested long enough. Usually these things take years to develop and test and for good reason. So yeah, I'm not in an age group where its risky and we also just found out that even if I were asymptomatic, I'm 26x less likely to spread it than someone with symptoms. I'm already careful, its not like I'm running my hands over every surface in the store and then licking my fingers or anything. So no vaccine for me. I'll let the people who need it more go first.
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Sad thing is, Trump has taken our Republic to the precipice. And it's not hard to see how our standing in the world has fallen apart, or come pretty damn close. Who's crying wolf? That's how I see things, and I truly believe Trump poses a grave danger to the country.
Other than that, nice post. Though I basically agree with roughly half of your political viewpoints. That still places us relatively close on the political spectrum, at least moreso than others here, by a wide margin. The thing I respect about guys like you, Sarge and a few others, is you're not dogmatic in your political views. You do see the forest from the trees, and aren't willing to go down the batshit crazy Trump wormhole, like a lot of posters here.
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If Trump has taken the country to the precipice, he’s had plenty of help from any number of politicians in the left. The thing that pisses me off about Trump is that when the left or media or whoever pokes him, he has to respond. To everything. And most of it is sophomoric and childish. To me that blurs the lines of who is causing the problem to begin with. The democrat party has at least as much responsibility for the condition the country is in. AT LEAST. And to lay it all at the feet of the president is disingenuous considering the executive is probably the least powerful person in government.
I guess it’s a matter of perspective. One group of people like some political party. Me, I don’t trust any of them. ******* scumbags, one and all.
Same as you.
What really opened my eyes is the fact businesses and families are struggling and rather than reaching a deal to benefit the people, they argue about incentives for their political gain
