Game Balls, Game Goats, & FU's...........week 14..........vs Clowns

[Fiji Mariner]

So far, he has a 103.9 QB rating. He’s the MVP don’t kid yourself.

Meh a decent rating vs those .35 teams
Let’s see how he does vs some real opponents

Couldn’t even score a damn TD vs one of the two potential playoff teams he’s faced, the rest a who’s who of 2 and 3 win teams…slow clap for getting it done vs the league trash

I’ll stick with Cam or Boz at this point

I was for the change to Russ and he’s looked pretty solid, but dude has barely played half a year and took on the weakest stretch of the schedule thus far…so pardon my skepticism to crown him yet when other guys have been playing their tail off all year. He has a chance, sure…let’s see what he’s got vs a couple actual contenders first tho.

 

[Troglodyte]

Meh a decent rating vs those .35 teams
Let’s see how he does vs some real opponents

Couldn’t even score a damn TD vs one of the two potential playoff teams he’s faced, the rest a who’s who of 2 and 3 win teams…slow clap for getting it done vs the league trash

I’ll stick with Cam or Boz at this point

I was for the change to Russ and he’s looked pretty solid, but dude has barely played half a year and took on the weakest stretch of the schedule thus far…so pardon my skepticism to crown him yet when other guys have been playing their tail off all year. He has a chance, sure…let’s see what he’s got vs a couple actual contenders first tho.

No other loss would hurt the Steelers more than that of Russ. Fields was 4-2 as the starter with a 93.3 rating, but there’s a reason he hasn’t returned.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Yep ....I agree 100%.... we have a tough 3(or 4)game span here now. We need to finish strong!!!!

Win or lose, this will be a Coaching test as well……………….


Salute the nation

 

[bigben]

Every coach needs to have good players to make their philosophies work. Tell me one coach who won with lousy players.

Doug Pederson
Won a superbowl with a backup QB Nick foles,
Top skill guys
Nelson Agholor, Jay ajayi and legarette blount.

 

[diver]

Doug Pederson
Won a superbowl with a backup QB Nick foles,
Top skill guys
Nelson Agholor, Jay ajayi and legarette blount.

Oh, c'mon. And Billick won one with Trent Dilfer. There are always exceptions to the rule. Rare exceptions. Those teams that win consistently do so with great players, great QBs. Coaches don't win consistently without that.

Just a few years after the Eagles win, Peterson is 4-11 with that questionable QB play, and looking for a job. Same with Billick.

 

[bigben]

Meh a decent rating vs those .35 teams
Let’s see how he does vs some real opponents

Couldn’t even score a damn TD vs one of the two potential playoff teams he’s faced, the rest a who’s who of 2 and 3 win teams…slow clap for getting it done vs the league trash

I’ll stick with Cam or Boz at this point

I was for the change to Russ and he’s looked pretty solid, but dude has barely played half a year and took on the weakest stretch of the schedule thus far…so pardon my skepticism to crown him yet when other guys have been playing their tail off all year. He has a chance, sure…let’s see what he’s got vs a couple actual contenders first tho.

He can only play the Teams on the schedule, his one loss was in the snow. It was also on the defense. Wilson played well enough to be 7-0
Name 1 skill player on offense who has consistently played well besides Russ
Russ needs 4 TD and 778 yards to throw for more TD and Yards in 11 games than Fields in his best season.

 

[bigben]

Oh, c'mon. And Billick won one with Trent Dilfer. There are always exceptions to the rule. Rare exceptions. Those teams that win consistently do so with great players, great QBs. Coaches don't win consistently without that.

Just a few years after the Eagles win, Peterson is 4-11 with that questionable QB play, and looking for a job. Same with Billick.

I agree, usually you need a great QB. Not gonna argue that.
My point is great coaching can and has won without the talent.

Pederson won with bums
Tomlin lost with a HOF QB and the #1 WR and #1 RB

 

[diver]

I agree, usually you need a great QB. Not gonna argue that.
My point is great coaching can and has won without the talent.

Pederson won with bums
Tomlin lost with a HOF QB and the #1 WR and #1 RB

Look, I agree Tomlin's results when he had those guys were disappointing. No doubt. But I would argue that Pederson and Billick, in those years, kind of just got hot at the right time and rode it. Billick had one of the best all-time defenses that year. Pederson did make some great decisions to win that year, for sure. However, do the coaches that won more than one, not just catching lighting in a bottle, like Noll, or Belechick, or Reid, win without a HOF QB? We have evidence to prove they do not.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

No other loss would hurt the Steelers more than that of Russ. Fields was 4-2 as the starter with a 93.3 rating, but there’s a reason he hasn’t returned.

I would wager Fields would’ve won at least 5 of those games, maybe 6

I doubt he can out shoot the Bungles but quite likely beats the Browns in the snow game and maybe loses to the Commanders…can’t see more than 2 losses with JF down that stretch of tomato cans.

So win 1 above replacement

Take Cam out and probably a much larger drop off, you just convinced me

Cam is the current MVP

 

[Stryker]

And the Killer Bees started one playoff game together. The Cincy game when AB got brained...

 

[bigben]

Look, I agree Tomlin's results when he had those guys were disappointing. No doubt. But I would argue that Pederson and Billick, in those years, kind of just got hot at the right time and rode it. Billick had one of the best all-time defenses that year. Pederson did make some great decisions to win that year, for sure. However, do the coaches that won more than one, not just catching lighting in a bottle, like Noll, or Belechick, or Reid, win without a HOF QB? We have evidence to prove they do not.

Tom C won 2 with Eli Manning? Eli isn't what I think of as a hall of fame QB skill wise/ numbers wise he's not. He will probably end up in the hall of fame just for slaying the dragons. twice, and name recognition. Peyton was not playing near HOF level when he won the superbowl with the Broncos. He was still above average, but far from his prime.
I agree with you for the most part, You need a good to great QB to have any shot. Great coaching can get it done with a just below HOF level QB like Eli, or Flacco
Or Matt Ryan. Falcons win that superbowl with better coaching.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Meh a decent rating vs those .35 teams
Let’s see how he does vs some real opponents

Couldn’t even score a damn TD vs one of the two potential playoff teams he’s faced, the rest a who’s who of 2 and 3 win teams…slow clap for getting it done vs the league trash

I’ll stick with Cam or Boz at this point

I was for the change to Russ and he’s looked pretty solid, but dude has barely played half a year and took on the weakest stretch of the schedule thus far…so pardon my skepticism to crown him yet when other guys have been playing their tail off all year. He has a chance, sure…let’s see what he’s got vs a couple actual contenders first tho.

The Steelers are scoring 8+ points more per game since Wilson took over as starter. He's not in the category of Mahomes or Allen, but my goodness is he better than "meh."

 

[Stewey]

Meh a decent rating vs those .35 teams
Let’s see how he does vs some real opponents

Couldn’t even score a damn TD vs one of the two potential playoff teams he’s faced, the rest a who’s who of 2 and 3 win teams…slow clap for getting it done vs the league trash

I’ll stick with Cam or Boz at this point

I was for the change to Russ and he’s looked pretty solid, but dude has barely played half a year and took on the weakest stretch of the schedule thus far…so pardon my skepticism to crown him yet when other guys have been playing their tail off all year. He has a chance, sure…let’s see what he’s got vs a couple actual contenders first tho.

Are mpv’s awarded based on strength of schedule?

 

[Fiji Mariner]

The Steelers are scoring 8+ points more per game since Wilson took over as starter. He's not in the category of Mahomes or Allen, but my goodness is he better than "meh."

Again look at the dog **** pile of teams he’s played

He’ll get his chance to prove he’s something in this next 3 game stretch

You can only play the teams on the schedule so I’m not faulting him, but good lawd he did what was expected and beat some 2 and 3 win tomato cans and pointed up on the a$$clown Bungles

IF He can make some hay vs some talented Ds like the Eagles and Chiefs we’ll be cooking with gas, until then he did what 75% of decent QBs in the league would do and beat absolutely garbage teams…and the Commanders

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Are mpv’s awarded based on strength of schedule?

I generally award them to people that have helped win more than 6 games

Like worthy candidates that helped win 10 games rank above 6 by my standards, but to each their own

 

[SteelerFan448]

Again look at the dog **** pile of teams he’s played

He’ll get his chance to prove he’s something in this next 3 game stretch

You can only play the teams on the schedule so I’m not faulting him, but good lawd he did what was expected and beat some 2 and 3 win tomato cans and pointed up on the a$$clown Bungles

IF He can make some hay vs some talented Ds like the Eagles and Chiefs we’ll be cooking with gas, until then he did what 75% of decent QBs in the league would do and beat absolutely garbage teams…and the Commanders

Are you going to cherry pick all the players or just Wilson? TJ Watt has 6.5 of his 9.5 sacks against teams below .500. Has his pass rushing also been "meh" because he's only produced against bad teams?

In 2022-24, the Steelers scored over 20 points 13 times in 41 games without Wilson starting. They've done that 5 times in 7 games with Wilson. The Steelers had plenty of opportunities against awful teams during that time to put up points and they didn't.

 

[Stewey]

I generally award them to people that have helped win more than 6 games

Like worthy candidates that helped win 10 games rank above 6 by my standards, but to each their own

That's fair, but it looked like you were stressing "wait until he plays good teams".

Josh Allen is up for league MVP. I looked at Buffalos record and holy ****, other than KC they played a bunch of **** teams.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Are you going to cherry pick all the players or just Wilson? TJ Watt has 6.5 of his 9.5 sacks against teams below .500. Has his pass rushing also been "meh" because he's only produced against bad teams?

In 2022-24, the Steelers scored over 20 points 13 times in 41 games without Wilson starting. They've done that 5 times in 7 games with Wilson. The Steelers had plenty of opportunities against awful teams during that time to put up points and they didn't.

I’m not cherry picking

Simply said I didn’t think he was an MVP yet at this point, even said he may get there. My point was quite simple in that I believe other players are more instrumental to the 10-3 record…you know players that contributed to all 10 wins, just my opinion.

Looking at his entire 7 games is hardly cherry picking, his whole body of work was looked at…what part of that is cherry picking?

Not sure how anything from 22 or 23 is relevant to this years MVP either. We’re not comparing Russ vs the likes of the inept T-biscuit and KFP when discussing this year’s MVP. He’s obviously a vast improvement over them.

And I’m by no means disparaging what he’s done in his opportunity vs mostly crap teams. You can only play who is on the schedule, and he’s done well so far vs the crap teams he’s played. Also firmly believe that he is about 1 win over replacement and feel Cam (or a lack thereof) would have been a larger difference, thus my opinion that Cam has thus far been more valuable than Russ towards the teams record…and is so far the MVP

Still more games to go though and if playoff wins are to be had that is where Russ can cement his value

 

[Fiji Mariner]

That's fair, but it looked like you were stressing "wait until he plays good teams”

I think that is where he can and may separate himself cementing his value.
It will paint a clearer picture of this true value and potential MVP status in my eyes.

I think if Russ is on the bench all year we’re still either 9-4 or 10-3, almost exactly where we are now with him. JF was at 4-2 against opponents of higher caliber (in his 6 games the opponents had a total of 35 wins vs the 32 wins the opponents of the next 7 games put up) no reason to think having gained some time in the system vs weaker opponents he wouldn’t have went 5-2 (or even 6-1). Does it look prettier with Russ-mostly definitely. Does the offense look improved-hell yeah.

You take a guy like Cam out of the equation for the whole season and what he has contributed we’re likely 7-6ish, highly doubt we’re 10-3. The D would be much more suspect in every aspect.

So to me Cam has been more valuable thus far to the team’s results. The dropoff from Cam to Lowry/Loudermilk/Adams is much steeper than the dropoff from Russ to JF so to me Cam is more valuable.

MVP

 

[bigben]

I think that is where he can and may separate himself cementing his value.
It will paint a clearer picture of this true value and potential MVP status in my eyes.

I think if Russ is on the bench all year we’re still either 9-4 or 10-3, almost exactly where we are now with him. JF was at 4-2 against opponents of higher caliber (in his 6 games the opponents had a total of 35 wins vs the 32 wins the opponents of the next 7 games put up) no reason to think having gained some time in the system vs weaker opponents he wouldn’t have went 5-2 (or even 6-1). Does it look prettier with Russ-mostly definitely. Does the offense look improved-hell yeah.

You take a guy like Cam out of the equation for the whole season and what he has contributed we’re likely 7-6ish, highly doubt we’re 10-3. The D would be much more suspect in every aspect.

So to me Cam has been more valuable thus far to the team’s results. The dropoff from Cam to Lowry/Loudermilk/Adams is much steeper than the dropoff from Russ to JF so to me Cam is more valuable.

MVP

Cam gets credit for beating bad teams and Wilson doesn't? LOL
In the games Cam played and Wilson didn't they lost to one of the worst Cowboys teams in years and Journeyman Joe Flacco the backup QB for the colts. Neither team has a winning record or going to the playoffs.
What solid wins did cam have against "opponents of higher caliber?"
The Falcons with a shot Kirk cousins and a losing record who lost the last 5 of 7 games?
Rookie Bo Nix in his second NFL start?
Backup QB Taylor Heinecke? In a game we were losing against an injured Herbert.
The great Aiden O'connell before he was benched for Gardner Minshew on a 2-11 Raiders team?

Are these the "opponents of higher caliber" you speak of??

 

[SteelerFan448]

And I’m by no means disparaging what he’s done in his opportunity vs mostly crap teams. You can only play who is on the schedule, and he’s done well so far vs the crap teams he’s played.

You absolutely viewed Wilson's success being a product of his opponents. You're cherry picking calling Wilson's 100+ rating against bad teams "meh" while other players on the team have only produced against bad teams--that was my comment on cherry picking. You mentioned Heyward. He's mostly produced against crap teams with 5 of 8 sacks, 42 of 55 tackles, against non-playoff teams.

The difference Wilson has made is he has the Steelers looking from a Wild Card one-and-done playoff team to one capable of winning the division and winning at least a game or two in the playoffs.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

You absolutely viewed Wilson's success being a product of his opponents. You're cherry picking calling Wilson's 100+ rating against bad teams "meh" while other players on the team have only produced against bad teams--that was my comment on cherry picking. You mentioned Heyward. He's mostly produced against crap teams with 5 of 8 sacks, 42 of 55 tackles, against non-playoff teams.

The difference Wilson has made is he has the Steelers looking from a Wild Card one-and-done playoff team to one capable of winning the division and winning at least a game or two in the playoffs.

Ya fos
I referenced his whole body of work
All seven games
Yeah I sure cherry picked from his entire body of work with this franchise

Do you know what cherry pick means?

And for accuracy sake i called the take of him being MVP no ifs and or buts a meh take, get your assertions straight, you have jack squat of a clue how I view things obviously