GM

[Vincent]

What's the solution with GM?

On the one hand you have a company that makes cars in better labor markets for the obvious reasons. On the other hand they're closing factories in this country because the cost of labor (that they negotiated with labor) makes them less or unprofitable. What - $1500 in pensions costs alone per vehicle? Similar situation at Ford. Chrysler's just a bunch of flakes at this point. All are global enterprises.

The gubmint bailed GM out - and yes they paid them back. Does GM have a responsibility to employ Americans? With preference to the Chinese?

So in the meantime, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Merc, BMW, VW, Volvo, you name it are all investing in the US and continuing to do so while building vehicles they sell here and all over the world. Apparently cars can be designed, sourced, and built profitably in America by Americans. Why can the foreign marques do it and our brands can't? Obviously most foreign brands (UAW has breached VW) remain non-union. Is that the sole differentiator? Aside from the fact that the ferners seem to make stuff people want to buy and the Muricans, not so much?

Does Trump have any real leverage over GM? Does it even matter aside from the rust belt votes? Personally, aside from moving votes away from dims, I don't care. A business stands or fails on its own merit.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-dont-let-gm-off-the-hook-for-plant-closures/

Union Workers Stand with Trump: ‘Don’t Let GM Off the Hook’ for Plant Closures
Protestors against the decision to close a Chevrolet Cruze plant in Lordstown, Ohio.
19 Mar 20191819

The United Auto Workers (UAW) — which represents thousands of American workers at General Motors (GM) — is standing with President Trump in his recent call for GM CEO Mary Barra to reopen the corporation’s idled Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant.

 

[Steelr4evr]

It's the unions. Simple as that. They still make some good cars. The cost is going up up up. Both of our vehicles are GM products. Escalade esv for the wife and I have a 2018 Camaro Zl1 which outside of the 1969 is the best they've ever made. The 2019 Corvette zr1 is fugging 145k sticker price. Not too many people can drop coin like that. It's a far cry from a brand new cars running 3-5k in 1970

 

[ark steel]

************* should never again employ a non US citizen. Otoh, the unions helped make that ridiculous bed.

Make a high priced product that has little resale value and make buying it a miserable affair where most feel cheated afterwards. Fix that process and you go a long way towards fixing the auto industry.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Couple thoughts since I'm a gearhead.

GM generally builds garbage. For that reason I've mostly bought Fords for the last 30 years although in recent years it seems that Ford can't build a decent transmission.

CAFE standards, i.e. average fleet fuel economy. U.S. automakers can't profitably build small cars but CAFE forces them to do so and sell them at no profit in order to balance out the lower fuel economy of the profitable larger cars and SUV's that people really want. This is something President Trump could fix with the stroke of a pen since it's just a regulation and not a law passed by Congress as far as I know.

 

[Smash]

Free market capitalism says let GM do what needs to be done to maintain viability. They owe their investors to make as much as they can. Historically, it's been easier for a company to close up shop and move to where the pastures were greener, i.e. Mexico and China where the pickings are much easier. Trumponomics says make a better deal that benefits BOTH parties which in this economy makes equal sense. Add to that it benefits the company, it's workers, and the community today and in the future.

I cannot see how Ms. Barra and GM win this battle with the Trump. The last time he injected his opinion into private enterprise we got no more kneeling. And considering the bailout that GM took, it makes sense for them and their union employees to seek out ways to keep Lordstown open.

 

[IndySteel]

In this day and age unions should be abolished. They're just not necessary. But...the UAW standing with Trump is music to my ears. He's winning the union vote. The Steelworkers are the first tier, they supply the automakers. The way online retail and trucking is booming the Teamsters will vote for him too. The Dimotards are dying on the vine.

 

[21STEELERS21]

We aren't a communist country, the government shouldn't be telling private enterprise what to do.

 

[Roy92040]

They could start by building better cars. Maybe if the employees would take a little pride in what they're doing.

 

[Booted]

They could start by building better cars. Maybe if the employees would take a little pride in what they're doing.

They take pride in talking about their pay and pension.

 

[Steelerfan]

They could start by building better cars. Maybe if the employees would take a little pride in what they're doing.

Agreed. GM makes the cheapest pieces of crap around.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

The entire auto industry is in trouble. From an economic standpoint it makes no sense to purchase a new, over priced vehicle, that depreciates the second it's driven off the lot, and puts you in debt for 6 or 7 years.

Went and looked at a new F250 a few months ago and came away with the fact that my 22 year old 97 is still a better truck.

 

[Smash]

The entire auto industry is in trouble. From an economic standpoint it makes no sense to purchase a new, over priced vehicle, that depreciates the second it's driven off the lot, and puts you in debt for 6 or 7 years.

Went and looked at a new F250 a few months ago and came away with the fact that my 22 year old 97 is still a better truck.

I'd love that new 6.2 Litre V-8 F250, just not enough to part with $60,000.

 

[Troglodyte]

Agreed. GM makes the cheapest pieces of crap around.

If you want to change the daytime running lamp in an Escalade, you first need to remove the front bumper. American engineering at its finest!

 

[Vincent]

The entire auto industry is in trouble.

Zerohedge comments on this from time to time. Several years back they had an article on the fields and fields of unsold new cars that litter the planet.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-16/where-worlds-unsold-cars-go-die
Where the World's Unsold Cars Go To Die
by Tyler Durden | Sat, 05/17/2014 - 21:32

In the past several years, one of the topics covered in detail on these pages has been the surge in such gimmicks designed to disguise lack of demand and end customer sales, used extensively by US automotive manufacturers, better known as "channel stuffing", of which General Motors is particularly guilty and whose inventory at dealer lots just hit a new record high. But did you know that when it comes to flat or declining sales and stagnant end demand, channel stuffing is merely the beginning?

'Channel Stuffing'. Interesting concept.

And in other news, Facebook has banned Zerohedge. What could Zerohedge have possibly done to warrant such a distinction?

 

[ark steel]

We aren't a communist country, the government shouldn't be telling private enterprise what to do.

Even bakeries?

Normally, I'd agree with your comment. However, since GM would be nothing like what it is without the taxpayer money that kept them afloat, they need to be VERY ******* generous back to the citizens. When it comes around again that they ****** up enormously, and it will, Uncle Sam will, once again, be there because they are "too big to fail" and they are reliable Dem votes.

 

[DBS1970]

Couple thoughts since I'm a gearhead.

GM generally builds garbage. For that reason I've mostly bought Fords for the last 30 years although in recent years it seems that Ford can't build a decent transmission.

CAFE standards, i.e. average fleet fuel economy. U.S. automakers can't profitably build small cars but CAFE forces them to do so and sell them at no profit in order to balance out the lower fuel economy of the profitable larger cars and SUV's that people really want. This is something President Trump could fix with the stroke of a pen since it's just a regulation and not a law passed by Congress as far as I know.

GM builds a quality product that is miles ahead of Ford. You are right about the other ****.

 

[Vincent]

Even bakeries?

LOL!!

Normally, I'd agree with your comment. However, since GM would be nothing like what it is without the taxpayer money that kept them afloat, they need to be VERY ******* generous back to the citizens. When it comes around again that they ****** up enormously, and it will, Uncle Sam will, once again, be there because they are "too big to fail" and they are reliable Dem votes.

Its amazing that with square miles upon square miles of 'unsold' cars that the socialists haven't demanded they be 're-appropriated' in some way. That may be one of the very few things I might agree with them on. At the very least they could 'offset' some of the good will the gubmint extended to them. Shouldn't we be giving a new car to every illegal that comes across the border? Nah, we'd be 'racist' for not giving them free gas.

But seriously, it would make sense to offer 'unsold' cars at a significant discount after a period of time. It would affect new car prices, but so what? If they build so many cars they can't sell at some point prices must fall.

China has a similar problem with whole cities. There are whole vacant cities that were built, less on speculation, and more on keeping labor occupied. Maybe the population will catch up. Maybe they'll remain unoccupied until the end of time. That's similar to 'unsold', isn't it?

GM builds a quality product that is miles ahead of Ford.

Honestly. The discord between Ford and GM aficionados rivals that of Steelers and rats fans. Although, I have been told that 'real men drive Ford trucks'. That sounds so exclusionary.

 

[mightyguru]

As it is, there are more cars than there are people on the planet with an estimated 10 billion roadworthy cars in the world today,

 

[Booted]

Around my area...the cars are roadworthy but, the roads aren't carworthy.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I'd love that new 6.2 Litre V-8 F250, just not enough to part with $60,000.

Have the 7.3 diesel and all that sucker does is run, and it's AZ so not a spec of rust on it. 245K on the clock and I've done nothing to it other than follow a meticulous maintenance schedule for it.

Take that $800 monthly payment and invest it, you'll be surprised what you have after 6 or 7 years.

Buying new cars is for fools, you may look good, but no one cares.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Although, I have been told that 'real men drive Ford trucks'. That sounds so exclusionary.

I can attest that this is true.

 

[IndySteel]

I do three year leases for several reasons. I get bored with the same car and most of my payment is covered by business mile reimbursement. I agree with Zona though, in most cases having a car payment is stupid. My sister has had the same car for 18 years and she bought a vacation home.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I do three year leases for several reasons. I get bored with the same car and most of my payment is covered by business mile reimbursement. I agree with Zona though, in most cases having a car payment is stupid. My sister has had the same car for 18 years and she bought a vacation home.

Eliminate debt and I don't care what your income is, you'll be better off. And like your sister, I don't have to bear the 115 degrees of a Phoenix summer because of a cabin at 7,000 feet.

 

[IndySteel]

Eliminate debt and I don't care what your income is, you'll be better off. And like your sister, I don't have to bear the 115 degrees of a Phoenix summer because of a cabin at 7,000 feet.

Nice! Just curious, are there rattlesnakes at 7000 feet?


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[Omar10213245]

I have a 2018 toyota tacoma