Happy Easter friends!

[Djfan]

Well Thank you DJ. You are very well versed in this area. Appreciate you very much.

I'm a little surprised no one else chimed in. Maybe secularism has reached conservatism too.

Tnx brother. It's my life. Sure wish I could do this full time again. Keep them coming!

 

[Djfan]

I'm a former Christian and still on a journey to find answers in some sort of intelligent design, or "God" if you will.

My wife fell into what some believe to be a cult, which is the Hebrew roots movement, and her "leader" was once a member of the World Wide Church of God, which was also a cult. My wife believes that she is an Israelite by proxy and still must observe all of God's laws under Moses. The leader uses the same policies and doctrines as the WWCoG. The cult uses these restrictions to drive wedges into her relationships, including our marriage. She doesn't see it that way as she see it as a blessing. They have her so brain washed that there is no talking to her.

This led me on a journey to look at Christianity, Judaism, and I approached it from a historical perspective and what I've learned really opened my eyes to how Judaism and then Christianity formed. I'm in on the conversation if you'd allow me. Understand that the true name of the Israelite "God" is Yahweh and he was a lesser "Storm God" in the Canaanite religion. Then you get into how the Egyptians portrayed followers of Yahweh as donkey headed people...It's fascinating really.

If you want to get really technical - There is no "W" sound in Hebrew. The correct pronounciation is "Yi-hove-ah" The watchtower folks have this wrong, also (and a ton of other stuff). There also is no "J" sound in Hebrew.

Also, understand that while there are many named gods over history that share names, the God if the Israelites was first seen in history in the area of Mesopotamia, not Caanan. While our modern mind thinks that's kind of the same area, in the days of walking or using animals to get us there, it was quite far away. This is why you will hear Him called things like "Hashem" - "The Name" literally, "El", literally "god" in Hebrew, a very generic term for any old god, etc. It's when it's attached to characteristics such as "Elohaynu" - "Our God", etc., that it becomes a designation for them for their God.

If you're curious, I think that the idea that we can "discover" or "figure out God" is flawed from the foundation. Such persuits have lead to over 4,200 known faiths. Clearly the human capacity to figure stuff out is not too impressive in faith, politics, parenting, etc. The only way of certainty for us to "know about God" if for Him to reveal Himself. Other than that, it's only someone's best guess. Weak foundation there.

 

[Confluence]

God is Infinity

 

[Badcat]

If you want to get really technical - There is no "W" sound in Hebrew. The correct pronounciation is "Yi-hove-ah" The watchtower folks have this wrong, also (and a ton of other stuff). There also is no "J" sound in Hebrew.

Also, understand that while there are many named gods over history that share names, the God if the Israelites was first seen in history in the area of Mesopotamia, not Caanan. While our modern mind thinks that's kind of the same area, in the days of walking or using animals to get us there, it was quite far away. This is why you will hear Him called things like "Hashem" - "The Name" literally, "El", literally "god" in Hebrew, a very generic term for any old god, etc. It's when it's attached to characteristics such as "Elohaynu" - "Our God", etc., that it becomes a designation for them for their God.

If you're curious, I think that the idea that we can "discover" or "figure out God" is flawed from the foundation. Such persuits have lead to over 4,200 known faiths. Clearly the human capacity to figure stuff out is not too impressive in faith, politics, parenting, etc. The only way of certainty for us to "know about God" if for Him to reveal Himself. Other than that, it's only someone's best guess. Weak foundation there.

Yep, I didn't want to get too involved in writing what I've learned as I didn't want to **** on people's beliefs on a holiday. I'm certainly not trying to find a "God" but rather find answers as to why and how people of today have come to believe what they do. This thing with my wife really shook the pillars of my faith and I need to journey down several paths to figure this **** out. Hopefully.

 

[Djfan]

Yep, I didn't want to get too involved in writing what I've learned as I didn't want to **** on people's beliefs on a holiday. I'm certainly not trying to find a "God" but rather find answers as to why and how people of today have come to believe what they do. This thing with my wife really shook the pillars of my faith and I need to journey down several paths to figure this **** out. Hopefully.

I hope for that, too. Sorry about the event(s) that shook your faith, but if I could challenge you - maybe the faith was not correctly placed, or not built correctly? Many times God shakes errors until they fall. It's a gift. He raked the apostles over the coals, seeking a clearer truth.

That might be your story. Best wishes, brother.

 

[Badcat]

I hope for that, too. Sorry about the event(s) that shook your faith, but if I could challenge you - maybe the faith was not correctly placed, or not built correctly? Many times God shakes errors until they fall. It's a gift. He raked the apostles over the coals, seeking a clearer truth.

That might be your story. Best wishes, brother.

Life has certainly **** in my cheerios enough for some sort of clarity in truths. Thank you for the challenge and I'll take it into account during self reflection.

 

[Lunar]

B

God is Infinity

BUT not a Lexus.

 

[Lunar]

I don't want to make this a back-and-forth argument, so I will respect your answers and leave it at that.

Question #2

I was not asked to be born, so why am I forced to be put through this trial....that if I'm good I will go to heaven and if I'm bad I will suffer in hell for all eternity?

From what I gather the Jewish faith does not believe in hell the way we do.

.

When A mommy and daddy love each other, they lie close and the daddy plants a seed inside mommy...

 

[Badcat]

When A mommy and daddy love each other, they lie close and the daddy plants a seed inside mommy...

...but what if Daddy plants the seed inside of her bum? Is that where Democrats come from?

 

[Stewey]

Tnx brother. It's my life. Sure wish I could do this full time again. Keep them coming!

This is not really a question., but something I read a long time ago,....probably from an atheist.
That God didn't create us. We created God.

That humans are the only living organisms that are aware of our own mortality. That said, humankind found it difficult to accept death as being the end, there must be something else after we die.
So to satisfy or to answer that "enigma" we created God....not vice versa.

 

[Djfan]

This is not really a question., but something I read a long time ago,....probably from an atheist.
That God didn't create us. We created God.

That humans are the only living organisms that are aware of our own mortality. That said, humankind found it difficult to accept death as being the end, there must be something else after we die.
So to satisfy or to answer that "enigma" we created God....not vice versa.

Cool. Let this athiest substantiate it. And, we do create many gods, often in our own image.

 

[SanDiegoSteeler]

I am an Orthodox Christian and this is one of those years that Pascha (easter) does not fall on the same Sunday as the majority of the Christian faiths.
I grew up a priest's son. and I ain't gonna lie, that's not an easy thing to be. Quite the spirital journey. a lot of spills and falls along the way. I would like to say that God does reveal Himself for all that want to search. I believe this.

I hope everyone who celebrated this past Sunday had a Blessed and magnanimous day and feast.

Anyway, I found this fairly short youtube of our journey to Pascha, We commemorate this Saint the latter part of Lent as encouragement..

 

[Booted]

BUT not a Lexus.

 

[diver]

I listen a lot to a preacher by the name of Voddie Baucham. You can find a lot of his sermons on Youtube. He has a fantastic one on "Why I choose to believe the Bible." He states we choose to believe the Bible because:

"It is a reliable collection of historical documents, written down by eyewitnesses in the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They record supernatural events, in accordance with SPECIFIC prophecy, and claim their writings are divine, rather than human in origin." He then proceeds to flesh those things out, and it is so compelling. While the whole thing is so awesome to me, two specific areas I will highlight.
The first is the eyewitnesses in this sense. What was the lot of the early Christians? This wasn't the USA in the late '80s early '90s with Jimmy Swaggart and guys like that making millions on religion. The early Christians lot was poverty, abuse and death, often in brutal ways. No one would endure that for a lie. What they saw so changed and impacted them they had to proclaim it to everyone they could. They saw Christ resurrected! Friday dead, Sunday alive! Upon seeing that, their own lives became much less important.
The second thing for me is specific prophecy. Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 discuss in detail the crucifixion of Jesus...centuries before crucifixion is even invented! These chapters and verses talk about the piercing of His hands and feet, His bones out of joint, surrounded by dogs (Roman soldiers), casting lots for His garment, He did not open his mouth, His grave was with the wicked (criminals on either side of Him), with the rich in his death (buried in a wealthy man's tomb).

I have been on a journey myself these last 7 years or so. I grew up in the church, and then fell away, not for any specific reason...embarrassingly just laziness more than anything. Now, Thank God, I'm not where I ought to be, but I'm not where I was.

 

[Booted]

I have been on a journey myself these last 7 years or so. I grew up in the church, and then fell away, not for any specific reason...embarrassingly just laziness more than anything. Now, Thank God, I'm not where I ought to be, but I'm not where I was.

As long as you're breathing, it's never too late to start your journey towards righteousness. You're a good person. From now on your official name will be Holy Diver.

 

[Stewey]

B

BUT not a Lexus.

Forgive me Jesus, but that would be spelled YOU'RE

 

[Djfan]

I am an Orthodox Christian and this is one of those years that Pascha (easter) does not fall on the same Sunday as the majority of the Christian faiths.
I grew up a priest's son. and I ain't gonna lie, that's not an easy thing to be. Quite the spirital journey. a lot of spills and falls along the way. I would like to say that God does reveal Himself for all that want to search. I believe this.

I hope everyone who celebrated this past Sunday had a Blessed and magnanimous day and feast.

Anyway, I found this fairly short youtube of our journey to Pascha, We commemorate this Saint the latter part of Lent as encouragement..

Was he at that church in Bay Park?

 

[SanDiegoSteeler]

Was he at that church in Bay Park?

The closest church he tended to near you was in Casper, his last parish in his late 70s..Dad followed his heart with people. Some got it, some didn't. I felt embarrassed sometime, now that I am older I realize how wrong I was. He had the calling.

One accommplsment is he has 5 young men that followed his advice to preisthood.
It's not a lucrative job.

No way I could have ever followed in his footsteps.
My kids loved him,

 

[SanDiegoSteeler]

One leat thing I will say.....this country needs God more than ever.
Really concerning.

I can't believe what I am whatching,

 

[Djfan]

One leat thing I will say.....this country needs God more than ever.
Really concerning.

I can't believe what I am whatching,

So true. I am convinced that left to ourselves, this nation falls soon. But for a vast move of God here, we have no hope of continuing. I pray for this daily. I also speak out, hoping to help it happen.

 

[Badcat]

I listen a lot to a preacher by the name of Voddie Baucham. You can find a lot of his sermons on Youtube. He has a fantastic one on "Why I choose to believe the Bible." He states we choose to believe the Bible because:

"It is a reliable collection of historical documents, written down by eyewitnesses in the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They record supernatural events, in accordance with SPECIFIC prophecy, and claim their writings are divine, rather than human in origin." He then proceeds to flesh those things out, and it is so compelling. While the whole thing is so awesome to me, two specific areas I will highlight.
The first is the eyewitnesses in this sense. What was the lot of the early Christians? This wasn't the USA in the late '80s early '90s with Jimmy Swaggart and guys like that making millions on religion. The early Christians lot was poverty, abuse and death, often in brutal ways. No one would endure that for a lie. What they saw so changed and impacted them they had to proclaim it to everyone they could. They saw Christ resurrected! Friday dead, Sunday alive! Upon seeing that, their own lives became much less important.
The second thing for me is specific prophecy. Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 discuss in detail the crucifixion of Jesus...centuries before crucifixion is even invented! These chapters and verses talk about the piercing of His hands and feet, His bones out of joint, surrounded by dogs (Roman soldiers), casting lots for His garment, He did not open his mouth, His grave was with the wicked (criminals on either side of Him), with the rich in his death (buried in a wealthy man's tomb).

I have been on a journey myself these last 7 years or so. I grew up in the church, and then fell away, not for any specific reason...embarrassingly just laziness more than anything. Now, Thank God, I'm not where I ought to be, but I'm not where I was.

The Bible isn't a book but rather, a library of books and the issue that I have is that many of these books reference other books, laments, poems, etc. that were "divinely" left out of the Hebrew library. So what did these holy men not want followers to know? I mean there were writings left out of the New Testament as well and I have a hard time believing in something when I'm only reading parts of the overall historical past, or one side of the story if you will? I know the retort is going to be "God guided their hearts and hands" which sounds like a Monty Python skit set in a synagogue where a group of Rabbi's discuss how they're going to explain why some of the writings and traditions weren't included in the Cannon. In a Jewish accent " I know! God inspired only these books and only we would know as Holy men!" lol. Then you have the Apocrypha that were included in the Septuagint that formed the Latin Vulgate that later made up the Catholic Bible. John Luther decided the Bible was formed incorrectly and re-organized it during his translation into German (I'll bet that was fun) and then Protestants decided they were not divine at all and omitted them from their Bible.

All of these people are reading from different libraries and believe they are the way, the truth, and will receive eternal peace in heaven. Interesting.

 

[Djfan]

The closest church he tended to near you was in Casper, his last parish in his late 70s..Dad followed his heart with people. Some got it, some didn't. I felt embarrassed sometime, now that I am older I realize how wrong I was. He had the calling.

One accommplsment is he has 5 young men that followed his advice to preisthood.
It's not a lucrative job.

No way I could have ever followed in his footsteps.
My kids loved him,

I get it, but I grew up in San Diego, and I remember that Orthodox Church in Bay Park, to the east of I-5. Just wondering if that was his church.

 

[Djfan]

The Bible isn't a book but rather, a library of books and the issue that I have is that many of these books reference other books, laments, poems, etc. that were "divinely" left out of the Hebrew library. So what did these holy men not want followers to know? I mean there were writings left out of the New Testament as well and I have a hard time believing in something when I'm only reading parts of the overall historical past, or one side of the story if you will? I know the retort is going to be "God guided their hearts and hands" which sounds like a Monty Python skit set in a synagogue where a group of Rabbi's discuss how they're going to explain why some of the writings and traditions weren't included in the Cannon. In a Jewish accent " I know! God inspired only these books and only we would know as Holy men!" lol. Then you have the Apocrypha that were included in the Septuagint that formed the Latin Vulgate that later made up the Catholic Bible. John Luther decided the Bible was formed incorrectly and re-organized it during his translation into German (I'll bet that was fun) and then Protestants decided they were not divine at all and omitted them from their Bible.

All of these people are reading from different libraries and believe they are the way, the truth, and will receive eternal peace in heaven. Interesting.

Your scholarship here is not right. The apocryphal books were not agreed upon by most, then removed by a few. In fact, it's the other way around.

Also, there were checks and balances used to verify the legitimacy of books, and inspiration of them as well. Don't like it, that's cool, but understand that for the vast majority of those who over many years, decided that some were lacking in one way or another, the motavation was pure as can be. Still today, the debate is all but settled, except in the popular narrative of the average man on the street.

Another interesting thing, is that those over the years who have tried to reintroduce these books to the canon, are people who have wanted to bring on other, less orthodox teaching. This is also the practice of those who want to introduce other writings as equal to the canon, such as the book of mormon, the writings of Mary Baker Eddie, etc. The desire to make abhorant teachings valid requires the elevation of other documents to the level of the Bible. It's an old practice, and will probably continue. This doesn't change the canon, though. It is the standard to which they want to elevate other teachings.

The cool thing about it is that God is insanely gracious. Even in error, we can be reconciled to Him. I am sure that I have teachings that miss the mark. I don't want them, but I don't trust my understanding, but His mercy. That is just a different paradigm. And it is based on His kindness, not my ability to correctly believe. In fact, the book of James points out that believing is the level the demons are at. I want to be better off then they are in the path.

 

[diver]

So true. I am convinced that left to ourselves, this nation falls soon. But for a vast move of God here, we have no hope of continuing. I pray for this daily. I also speak out, hoping to help it happen.

I have come to the conclusion this country will fail. It's hard to accept, but I think it is inevitable. What I mean is that the USA, or Israel, or whatever country is not the promised land we seek.
Being a Christian is not easy, you never pass the class, if you will. It has been very hard in certain parts of the world. I wonder if, when all is said and done, the Heavenly Father would write a history, the story of the United States would be about a people given so many privileges to be a Christian freely and somehow we have still screwed it up.

We can't do it. We must have God.

 

[Badcat]

Your scholarship here is not right. The apocryphal books were not agreed upon by most, then removed by a few. In fact, it's the other way around.

Sorry if it came across this way, not what I meant, really. In the time of when the Vulgate was constructed, Catholicism was the largest religion in the world thus most would have read the Apocrypha books within their written bibles. My point was that over the years the Bible has been constructed, restructured, translated into different dialects whereby Hebrew words and letters had no equal and were associated to the closest in their language model. It's difficult for me to read the text firmly believing that it's 100% accurate and perhaps My understanding would then be incredibly wrong. I know that it's called faith for a reason, and I appreciate your dialog here DJ. Thank you.