Healthcare in America was just declared a right

[CharlesDavenport]

Obama address at Hannover. Said something like "first American President who can come here and say that in America healthcare is now a right". So the government is forcing everyone to buy it, and that makes it a right? Dude has a God complex.

 

[MTC]

His term is almost done

 

[SteelChip]

Obama address at Hannover. Said something like "first American President who can come here and say that in America healthcare is now a right". So the government is forcing everyone to buy it, and that makes it a right? Dude has a God complex.

 

[TDX27]

As long as a GOP candidate gets in there, all of his bullshit unconstitutional crap will be reversed. If it's Hilldog or Bern, things will get 10x worse than they are now and will be irreversible. This country will be dead.

 

[Troglodyte]

As long as a GOP candidate gets in there, all of his bullshit unconstitutional crap will be reversed. If it's Hilldog or Bern, things will get 10x worse than they are now and will be irreversible. This country will be dead.

I thought Trump said he liked the mandate?

 

[DBS1970]

It is a right.

The thing is it is a right to access a right to have it. It isn't a right to force anyone else to pay for it or force a medical professional to treat you for free.

 

[ark steel]

I thought Trump said he liked the mandate?

Probably because you cannot force insurance companies to allow anyone with pre-existing conditions to buy insurance unless you mandate that everyone buy it. Otherwise, no one would buy any insurance because only the people who had pre-existing conditions would want to pay the astronomical prices that would occur.

 

[Superman]

it's all fine and dandy right now... as unicorns grow on rainbow trees, but what about in the future, when people see that becoming a doctor just isnt worth the paperwork between insurance companies, meeting government regulations, acquiring and repaying student loans, going to school for x-number of years... and the total number of physicians begins to dwindle? how will this play out, then? will certain people be "forced" to become doctors due to scores on federal government mandated tests? will common core even allow for the same high-quality of research and education down the line?

Disaster and Democrat go hand in hand.

 

[ark steel]

it's all fine and dandy right now... as unicorns grow on rainbow trees, but what about in the future, when people see that becoming a doctor just isnt worth the paperwork between insurance companies, meeting government regulations, acquiring and repaying student loans, going to school for x-number of years... and the total number of physicians begins to dwindle? how will this play out, then? will certain people be "forced" to become doctors due to scores on federal government mandated tests? will common core even allow for the same high-quality of research and education down the line?

Disaster and Democrat go hand in hand.

There is no evidence that a dwindling supply of a good while the demand for the good increases would cause higher prices...oh, wait.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Probably because you cannot force insurance companies to allow anyone with pre-existing conditions to buy insurance unless you mandate that everyone buy it. Otherwise, no one would buy any insurance because only the people who had pre-existing conditions would want to pay the astronomical prices that would occur.

Except that people would ***** about the astronomical prices to the government and then politicians would subsidize the cost in order to get votes. Oh wait....

 

[madinsomniac]

There is no reason anyone in this country should go without health care... but medical insurance profits can be trimmed out and profits form certain services can be restricted... follow any of a dozen other countries templates for this... our issue is we want everyone to have it but we also want to cater to the insurance and drug companies and let certain services be grossly overcharged so a ton of middle men can make millions... Doctors wages never need to go down... jsu less white collars ought to be able to make mints off of healthcare

 

[MT~Forged]

As long as a GOP candidate gets in there, all of his bullshit unconstitutional crap will be reversed.

Keep telling yourself that, there is no way that **** is going away. Too many people in power getting rich off of it.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Obama address at Hannover. Said something like "first American President who can come here and say that in America healthcare is now a right". So the government is forcing everyone to buy it, and that makes it a right? Dude has a God complex.

Question:

Does the government force you to buy highways? Does the government force you to buy Fire Department service? Does the government force you to buy public school?

Calling health care a "right" is silly. But it is infrastructure, and as such works better when you have centrally pooled resources.

 

[DBS1970]

Question:

Does the government force you to buy highways? Does the government force you to buy Fire Department service? Does the government force you to buy public school?

Calling health care a "right" is silly. But it is infrastructure, and as such works better when you have centrally pooled resources.

No healthcare doesn't work better with centrally pooled resources. Taxation is theft and while much of those things you listed are necessities a few are outright robbery. Public school taxes are the most blatant, if you have no children in the schools you shouldn't pay an assessment for it. But they hammer everybody for it. At least with highway taxes if you don't buy fuel or register a vehicle you pay a very small amount.

 

[Troglodyte]

No healthcare doesn't work better with centrally pooled resources. Taxation is theft and while much of those things you listed are necessities a few are outright robbery.

But using taxation only to insure the sickest and poorest people while private companies profit from everyone else as well as the sickest and poorest is crazy theft.

That was the case long before Obamacare.

 

[21STEELERS21]

The policy of not denying anyone emergency room care made healthcare a right. Obama had nothing to
do with that. It's kind of a stupid right, because it would be much cheaper having everyone get preventive
and regular care instead of waiting until things fester into an emergency.

 

[DBS1970]

The policy of not denying anyone emergency room care made healthcare a right. Obama had nothing to
do with that. It's kind of a stupid right, because it would be much cheaper having everyone get preventive
and regular care instead of waiting until things fester into an emergency.

No.

No legislation grants rights. Rights are native and natural to the individual. As I said before the right is a right to ACCESS. You have a right to be treated, you have a right to go to the doctor. You don't have a right to make somebody else pay for your care.

 

[Troglodyte]

The policy of not denying anyone emergency room care made healthcare a right. Obama had nothing to
do with that. It's kind of a stupid right, because it would be much cheaper having everyone get preventive
and regular care instead of waiting until things fester into an emergency.

Not necessarily, having a morbidly obese, diabetic smoker get an annual wellness visit doesn't itself make them healthier.

Under the ACA, doctors are being punished for **** head patients who don't follow treatment plans.

Healthcare would be cheaper if people were healthier, that's not a direct result of having health insurance.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

No healthcare doesn't work better with centrally pooled resources. Taxation is theft and while much of those things you listed are necessities a few are outright robbery. Public school taxes are the most blatant, if you have no children in the schools you shouldn't pay an assessment for it. But they hammer everybody for it. At least with highway taxes if you don't buy fuel or register a vehicle you pay a very small amount.

This is the wild eyed, survivalist insanity that has infected the Civil Libertarian movement. If you don't have taxes, you have no infrastructure. If you have no infrastructure, you have no governance. And without governance you have no nation. If someone steals DBS's car, I bet you call the cops don't you? Even if you've never needed them before. Now what happens if they show up and demand you pay them $1500 to look for, not find, look for your car? You didn't pay no taxes because taxation is theft. Now you're out a car, and $1500 if they don't find it.

It would be an insane and stupid way to run a country. Ever time a crime happened, you'd have a lynch mob running around dispensing street justice because nobody wanted to pay the cops. Houses would burn down because poor people can't afford fire department service. And you'd have no military to speak of.

Your way makes us a 3rd world country, not the richest and most powerful nation on Earth.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

This is the wild eyed, survivalist insanity that has infected the Civil Libertarian movement. If you don't have taxes, you have no infrastructure. If you have no infrastructure, you have no governance. And without governance you have no nation. If someone steals DBS's car, I bet you call the cops don't you? Even if you've never needed them before. Now what happens if they show up and demand you pay them $1500 to look for, not find, look for your car? You didn't pay no taxes because taxation is theft. Now you're out a car, and $1500 if they don't find it.

It would be an insane and stupid way to run a country. Ever time a crime happened, you'd have a lynch mob running around dispensing street justice because nobody wanted to pay the cops. Houses would burn down because poor people can't afford fire department service. And you'd have no military to speak of.

Your way makes us a 3rd world country, not the richest and most powerful nation on Earth.

*sigh* SMDH.

Joe Bob isn't married, and Joe Bob is never going to get married. Joe Bob works at Fred's Tire and Auto. Joe Bob pays taxes like a dutiful American. Part of Joe Bob's taxes are used to support education in his county and in his state. Joe Bob will never call the schools in the future and need their services. Taxing Joe Bob for public education is theft.

Steel V is gay. Steel V has no bi tendencies, he loves men and always will. Steel marries his soul mate Butch and they plan to live happily ever after. The Government has forced them to buy healthcare, including maternity health coverage - even though Steel V and his husband Butch can never procreate. This is theft - taxing Steel and his beloved Butch for a service the Government cannot provide them.

I could go on.

Taxation is important. There is intelligent taxation and stupid taxation. Ethical taxation and unethical taxation. DBS's points stand. Taxing people for infrastructure they will NEVER use (not sometimes use like the police - an apples/orange comparison) is unethical taxation.

 

[Superman]

wait ... Tim ... you're saying I don't need to pay for gynecology exams as a male?

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Taxation is important. There is intelligent taxation and stupid taxation. Ethical taxation and unethical taxation. DBS's points stand. Taxing people for infrastructure they will NEVER use (not sometimes use like the police - an apples/orange comparison) is unethical taxation.

This is silly, arbitrary, and economically infeasible.

The problem with you ideologues is that the pragmatic functionality of things never enters into your reasoning. You never ask yourself "ok how will this actually work".

So sure. Defund public education. And when America becomes a 3rd world country, what then? When illiteracy is at 25%, what then? When all the outside investment we have in education and business dries up because our infrastructure has turned to **** and our economy returns to pre-WW2 levels, what then?

You seem to have no understanding at all of how our system works, but you think you can just kick the supports out from under it and it will still stand.

 

[Steeltime]

it's all fine and dandy right now... as unicorns grow on rainbow trees, but what about in the future, when people see that becoming a doctor just isnt worth the paperwork between insurance companies, meeting government regulations, acquiring and repaying student loans, going to school for x-number of years... and the total number of physicians begins to dwindle? how will this play out, then?

 

[Troglodyte]

Joe Bob isn't married, and Joe Bob is never going to get married. Joe Bob works at Fred's Tire and Auto. Joe Bob pays taxes like a dutiful American. Part of Joe Bob's taxes are used to support education in his county and in his state. Joe Bob will never call the schools in the future and need their services. Taxing Joe Bob for public education is theft.

So Joe Bob is one of those mechanics who went to private school, or is he a product of public education, and the most expensive kind of public education - vo-tech?

What if everyone was like Joe Bob and decided not to have kids? Wouldn't society come to a miserable end within a half-century or so?

Joe Bob doesn't think things through.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

This is silly, arbitrary, and economically infeasible.

The problem with you ideologues is that the pragmatic functionality of things never enters into your reasoning. You never ask yourself "ok how will this actually work".

The problem with you Liberals (pretending to be Libertarians) is you constantly hurl personal insults as a means of discrediting your opponents before attempting weak arguments. You know, like your True Colors dialogue. Baseless, uneducated, lack-of-knowledge accusations. Very Alinsky.

So sure. Defund public education.

Please point out where I said to defund public education? I'm waiting....tick...tick...tick...

I did say that taxing people for services they will NEVER use is theft. It is. It's like Washington D.C. residents paying federal taxes and having no Federal representation. That's why it's on their license plates.

And when America becomes a 3rd world country, what then? When illiteracy is at 25%, what then? When all the outside investment we have in education and business dries up because our infrastructure has turned to **** and our economy returns to pre-WW2 levels, what then?

Embellishment at its finest right there. Since I didn't suggest (nor even hint at) defunding education, well...if it looks like a jackass and sounds like a jackass...

You seem to have no understanding at all of how our system works, but you think you can just kick the supports out from under it and it will still stand.

Oh, I'm absolutely sure I've forgotten more about how Government and Business works than you've learned to date.

I used to be able to go and buy insurance policies that fit my needs - adjust my deductibles based upon my finances and preferences. Now? Even though my wife and I are done with child-making, we still have to pay for maternity services. And I for gynecology exams. Why? Because Big Daddy Government needs to dip into my pocket, charge me for services I'll never use, so they can pay for the services that the stay-at-home-pot-smoking-never-gonna-work mom needs but can't afford cuz baby momma don't and won't work.

As for education, we could go down the massive rat-hole about Government run v private run education, and school vouchers and the like. The fact remains, taxing people who don't have and never will have children for public schools is theft, just like it is theft to charge me for needing a pap smear.

We can tax smokers for their habits, we can tax alcoholics for their liquor. We can certainly tax those that draw from the service they use. There are a thousand ways (again a rat hole) from privatizing education (which would only improve it) to taxes based on enrollment (like property taxes when you buy a car). Oh, there's ways. Plenty.