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Hell yeah we should raise minimum wage, wait I have to pay that much?

That's true for people who are hourly waged based employees that make anywhere near minimum wage, but I don't think you'd see a salaried professional making $75k suddenly get a $25k raise.

I've seen market rate adjustments for employees in my field that never trickled up to me.

Except that when prices for everything go up then those professionals (and everyone else) will demand higher wages and/or look for jobs that pay more and therefore employers will have to pay more to keep and attract workers. So everything costs more, everyone is making more, but no one really gains anything. It's called inflation. Made for good times in the 70's.

They don't have a money tree in the back room
A lot of people think I have one of those. I run a legit business in a line of work where most people work under the table and a lot of folks are horrified by what I charge but my insurance bill is $1800 a month, sales tax around $2000 a month, and payroll taxes like FICA employer share about $1500 a month just for starters. Most people who call us don't give a **** about any of that. Salesmanship has been out the window for the past three years because when someone calls their first question is always what does it cost? I don't sugarcoat anything anymore and just give them our hourly rate and if they shriek in horror then I don't have to waste time with them. Partly why my company is for sale. I'm just tired of dealing with it.
 
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The other thing liberals don't seem to understand is that businesses have something called a profit margin. They keep all of their costs, including labor costs, at such a level in order to make a profit. They don't have a money tree in the back room where they can grab the extra labor costs. That money has to come from somewhere, usually it comes from slowing growth and expansion and/or hiring fewer people. None of which is good for workers or income in the long run.

Since the Neo-Socialists in education have stopped teaching basic econ most people don't grasp that. They believe that every product sold is 100% profit to the merchant. I know this first hand from when I sold cars.
 
Since the Neo-Socialists in education have stopped teaching basic econ most people don't grasp that. They believe that every product sold is 100% profit to the merchant. I know this first hand from when I sold cars.
Dittos.
I love it when I tell people I charge $95 an hour for a crew of two people and they tell me I'm a crook and a criminal because I only pay my people $5 an hour. (Uhh, minimum wage has been $7.25 for a while and you can't find anyone to work for you if you're paying less than $12 anyway.)
 
My favorite was getting the goat eyed stare from somebody I had just gone over the invoice on a new car with and showed them what we paid to the manfacturer to get the car on the lot. They would still insist that we could sell a car we paid $28k for to them for $18K.
 
My favorite was getting the goat eyed stare from somebody I had just gone over the invoice on a new car with and showed them what we paid to the manfacturer to get the car on the lot. They would still insist that we could sell a car we paid $28k for to them for $18K.

Yeah, I get that too. Nothing costs that much, your dealer is hiding something somewhere.
 
Yeah, I get that too. Nothing costs that much, your dealer is hiding something somewhere.

Had an Asian Gent(they are called TooHai's in the car business) tell my general manager "you pay too much" after being told what we purchased the car for from the manufacturer. The general manager literraly told him to get the **** out.
 
Had an Asian Gent(they are called TooHai's in the car business) tell my general manager "you pay too much" after being told what we purchased the car for from the manufacturer. The general manager literraly told him to get the **** out.
I used to sell cars too, back in the 80's at an Olds-Cadillac dealer. The foreign doctors coming in to buy Cadillacs were the worst but then we were the only Caddy dealer within 30 miles so we simply didn't have to negotiate much on price. You want to go to Pittsburgh for sales and service to save $200, go ahead. I wasn't a terribly successful car salesman but I learned a lot and it helps me now.
 
Except that when prices for everything go up then those professionals (and everyone else) will demand higher wages and/or look for jobs that pay more and therefore employers will have to pay more to keep and attract workers. So everything costs more, everyone is making more, but no one really gains anything. It's called inflation. Made for good times in the 70's.

Wasn't the inflation of the 70's caused by oil prices?
 
Wasn't the inflation of the 70's caused by oil prices?

That was a big part of it but that was also when the govt got big into deficit spending. In the early 70's the Fed said they would no longer redeem paper money for gold or silver and we were simply on a paper standard of currency meaning that the govt could print as much money as they wanted. When you print money in order to simply have more to spend, it is part of the supply and demand graph that is really how everything works despite Liberal dreams to the contrary. Your horizontal axis is Q meaning the Quantity of money and the vertical axis is P, normally meaning Price which in this case is the value of money. The more dollars you print make each dollar worth less (two words).

Supply And Demand Graph.gif
 
My favorite was getting the goat eyed stare from somebody I had just gone over the invoice on a new car with and showed them what we paid to the manfacturer to get the car on the lot. They would still insist that we could sell a car we paid $28k for to them for $18K.

At times you can do this, if you're purchasing intelligently and using leverage.

Four years ago when I purchased my truck, I wanted it brand new and wanted the best price - yeh, we all do. So I bid dealers against each other - a fairly common practice now - if you know exactly what you want to purchase. You are in control and should be. Because of all of the promotions and discounts and bonuses that manufacturers make to dealerships, there are times where the dealership makes far more $$ on the manufacturer promotions than they do on the car sales.

For instance, Honda might tell a Honda dealer that if you sell 100 Hondas this month (any flavor), the dealership will get a $100,000 payment from Honda. It's June 27, the car dealership's sold 90 cars, and they are going to sell 10 more cars to get that $100K or else, including selling cars at a loss. Who cares? There's big money waiting. There's all sorts of these programs, and you just have to sniff them out. And you do that by bidding dealers vs. each other. A dealer that's not close to that 100 car bogey won't sell at a loss. Those that are will.

I paid for information about the make/model of my vehicle, so I would know what the invoice and retail and other detailed #s were on my model, including what special programs the manufacturer was running for their dealerships at the time. I then used the power of the intrawebs to figure out, within 100 miles of me, which dealers had my truck sitting on their lot, in the color/style I wanted. Then, on a planned day (a Monday) towards the end of the month (by design), I contacted each dealership in writing (email) and told them "Hi, I'm Tim, and tomorrow at 3PM, I'm selecting the winning dealership to sell me this truck. I will then purchase the truck, after receiving the buyers order, within 24-48 hours. I'm going to be buying this model truck with these features. I am letting you know that I am contacting you and 7 other dealerships. Since the end product is the same, I am making this purchase decision based solely on price. Please submit your price to me, if you are interested in winning my business, by (stated time) tomorrow when I'll make my decision."

I got some 'no responses,' some quotes that were $3K to $8K over invoice, etc. I was losing faith that I'd hit the market at the right time, that maybe there were no promos going on, etc, until like an hour before I was closing my bidding I had a dealer call me. He was willing to sell me the truck for $1,000 under invoice (I know this doesn't necessarily translate into what the dealer actually paid) and per my word I purchased the vehicle within 2 days.

I've known some people to go $3,000 or more under invoice. Sadly for me, there were rumors of my make/model going off the market soon. I live in Washington DC and from Philly to western MD to Richmond VA, there were only 7 of these trucks with my desired features available in the whole region. If you play this game with a make/model when there is a lot of inventory, you can get well below invoice. Some dealer, somewhere, is looking to sell at a loss, nearly all the time.
 
Some times you can do that sometimes you cant Tim. There are a lot of manufacturers now that audit the deals to make sure the dealers aren't selling at a big loss to hit the retro money like that. They also do it to protect their business model and exclusivity/resale value of the product. Scion was known to pull dealer licenses for discounting their cars. When we had a rare optioned vehicle we held on to it because we knew somebody would play the price for it and we would push our standard inventory to make the retros.
 
Interesting discussion on car pricing. Of course sometimes all businesses have to take losses at times. The point is the money gets made up somewhere, or the place goes out of business. I can't just say "I'm going to increase my labor costs by 30% and keep everything else the same." Most businesses, particularly retail businesses and restaurants that employ the majority of minimum wage workers, operate on thin margins.
 
I'll agree that Ontario is more liberal than the rest of Canada, but Canada overall is moderate-conservative.
Harpers been in since 2006 and doesn't appear to be going anywhere.
 
Some times you can do that sometimes you cant Tim. There are a lot of manufacturers now that audit the deals to make sure the dealers aren't selling at a big loss to hit the retro money like that. They also do it to protect their business model and exclusivity/resale value of the product. Scion was known to pull dealer licenses for discounting their cars. When we had a rare optioned vehicle we held on to it because we knew somebody would play the price for it and we would push our standard inventory to make the retros.

I dunno. The gig still seems to be working. I got my information and strategy from this place (this links to their testimonials - go to the home page to learn more): http://fightingchance.com/testimonials.php

He's still in business, so the game must still work.

Here's a quote from him on one of his pages:

EXPOSED: THE GAME-CHANGING TRUTH ABOUT THE DEALER INVOICE PRICE
  • In response to the sudden easy access to invoice prices when the Internet arrived in 1995, the industry launched an ongoing undercover program that has totally "redesigned" the automaker-dealer financial relationship. That's been done by continually raising the invoice price by more than the sticker price to disguise big profit dollars as "dealer cost" dollars, cutting the visible gross profit difference between the two dramatically and turning the invoice price into a bloated imposter.
  • Those disguised profit dollars are funneled back to dealers in a myriad of truly-secret “below-the-line” incentives programs that are typically based on total sales objectives set dealer-by-dealer, not connected to the sale of any individual vehicles.
  • These programs usually cover several months, and the rewards are often six- or seven-figure incentive checks. And no source can tell you any dealership’s objectives, where it stands against them, or when these programs start or stop.
  • As a result, the dealer invoice, even after subtracting “holdback” (which has already been dropped by Audi, BMW, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln and Mercedes and is headed for extinction), has little or nothing to do with any dealer’s “true cost” .
  • This bombshell fact invalidates all the invoiced-based car-buying advice and “target prices” you're finding everywhere on the Internet.

By bidding dealers against each other for the car you want, those with incentives to make bubble to the top. It's rather simple.
 
Some of these people pushing for raising the min wage to 15hr should go ahead and open a restaurant and pay all the employees and see how it really works out.
 
Some of these people pushing for raising the min wage to 15hr should go ahead and open a restaurant and pay all the employees and see how it really works out.
This is why not many Democrats own businesses. The smarter ones are afraid that if they start a business it will prove that everything they believed is wrong and most of the ones who do start a business become Republicans after writing a lot of very large checks to the government on a monthly or quarterly basis. Seen that one happen in my own company many times.
When would-be customers ***** at me about what I charge I'm not bashful about explaining that I spend about $6000 a month on insurance and taxes and that money has to come from somewhere and further that my company is for sale and they are welcome to buy it and try to do better. Almost three years and no takers yet.
 
Best car dealer movie ever. Set on a sleazy car lot. The opening scene is classic. It's the full movie in English with Swedish? subtitles which is probably why it hasn't been taken down.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hhw0fiL8Brs" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
 
Just for reference as to who stood where on minimum wage before Trump's statement...
 
Dang ole grave robber.
 
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