Individual statistics

[mightyguru]

Of all the ones mentioned, one sticks out like a sore thumb.

Heyo, Mr. Broken Record. We know you hate "Big Dummy"...we know it. Carry on with yer bag self.

 

[t-man]

Beat it, fanboy. Go straighten your Big Dummy poster or something.

Suck my **** you worthless cum dumpster.

I've seen serviceable qb's, 20 ******* years worth. At some point during that time period I most likely even resorted to ******* your mom to try and get the memory of how bad the QB position was in Pittsburgh, so I had to hit something with a nice big wide receiver.

Luckily the gash you fell out of fit the bill just fine.

Joe

 

[t-man]

Spare us your hissy fits.

Oh ****, with retorts like that, it's no wonder people have you on ignore all over this board. You aren't even entertaining.

Joe

 

[CoolieMan]

bags, your act is old and tired.

 

[Badcat]

People that want him traded recognize that this team ain't going to be winning **** in the foreseeable future, and want to get something for him while they can. It's not exactly an outlandish position to hold.

Ben is one of the few bright spots on this ******* team and you want to trade him? WTF? Ben is one of the top QBs in the league and you want him gone? ******* madness! What kind of trade would you propose if you were in Colbert's shoes. Give an example of how you would package it and why? I'm curious.

 

[Hollywood Bags]

Ben is one of the few bright spots on this ******* team and you want to trade him? WTF? Ben is one of the top QBs in the league and you want him gone? ******* madness! What kind of trade would you propose if you were in Colbert's shoes. Give an example of how you would package it and why? I'm curious.

Something that involved a top ten pick would be fine by me.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Something that involved a top ten pick would be fine by me.

You continually imply that Roethlisberger isn't worth a pile of ****-coated beans, yet you think they can get a top 10'pick for him? Makes sense,

 

[Badcat]

Something that involved a top ten pick would be fine by me.

Wow, you certainly have this all figured out. I love the detail and how you are able to steer the trade towards metting short, mid, and long term goals for the team. Nice one.

 

[Hollywood Bags]

You continually imply that Roethlisberger isn't worth a pile of ****-coated beans, yet you think they can get a top 10'pick for him? Makes sense,

Refusing to join the Big Dummy HOF enshrinement campaign, does not mean that I think he totally sucks. He's just nowhere near as good as some on here like to pretend. Maybe some other GMs are dumb enough to buy in. Top ten pick might be doable.

Or do you want to give him a raise and hang on to him through a few more 6-8 win seasons where he become another in a long list of aging, too-expensive Pittsburgh superstars who become drains on their teams like Polamalu, Jagr, etc?

 

[Hollywood Bags]

Wow, you certainly have this all figured out. I love the detail and how you are able to steer the trade towards metting short, mid, and long term goals for the team. Nice one.

Keep it simple stupid.
Yinz tend to over-analyze way, way too much.

 

[insaniti]

Well this got out of hand fast... individual stats people, go Brown, go Bell!

 

[madinsomniac]

I am on board with dealing Ben if the return is a top 3 pick and there are multiple potential Franchise level QBs available. he is closer to the end than the beginning and he has a lot of miles on him. on top of that we are more or less in the midst of a very poor rebuilding effort even if we dont acknowledge it. I would have liked to grab Bortles in the draft. If they dealt multiple first rounders for Ben i would have been fine with that. Its not that I dont think he can get us to a super bowl again, its just that there is a three year window of time that is still reasonably likely and frankly im not sure we will have a worthy team in that timeframe. QBs over 34 almost never even amke the Super bowl, much less win it

 

[t-man]

I am on board with dealing Ben if the return is a top 3 pick and there are multiple potential Franchise level QBs available. he is closer to the end than the beginning and he has a lot of miles on him. on top of that we are more or less in the midst of a very poor rebuilding effort even if we dont acknowledge it. I would have liked to grab Bortles in the draft. If they dealt multiple first rounders for Ben i would have been fine with that. Its not that I dont think he can get us to a super bowl again, its just that there is a three year window of time that is still reasonably likely and frankly im not sure we will have a worthy team in that timeframe. QBs over 34 almost never even amke the Super bowl, much less win it

Don't worry, if our talent on defense doesn't develop quickly, once Ben is done, we'll have a top pick in the draft soon enough. Just remember how anxious some were for the post Ben era once it gets here. I remember many saying we should have dealt him the year of the "scandal" and nabbed Bradford. That's the last SuperBowl we went to, btw, and were it not for Pouncy being injured, think we win that game. But hey, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

Joe

 

[Wingman]

Not so sure that Ben is a HOF guy. He is not hot garbage either. Look at where his offense has been in scoring for much of the time he has been here. Good arguments can be made both for and against his selection and both have merit. Individual stats are just that stats, they don't win games. One of the few things Tomlin has ever said that I thought was spot on was I did not walk by 5 rushing titles on the way in here.

In efforts that were not needed we were still getting balls to Brown to keep his string of catches alive. Stats have been padded before and will again. That is not a knock on Brown the guy is one of the corner stones of this team and should be till he can no longer play. He more than anyone else is the guy that our offense has that worries the opposition.

Baseball has always been a game of stats football not as much. Most individual stats have now been turned into fodder for those that play fantasy football and as such have become meaningless. In looking at stats look at Marino, and Barry Sanders, those guys were very good at their positions and were arguably the best at their respective positions during their time in the game, yet their teams were not able to build around them and become champions.

Stats are in my opinion over rated as it relates to football.

 

[USDA#1]

1. Lance Moore thinks he's better than he is. He's a middle-of-the-road WR, and his stretching out nearly resulted in a fumble. Good when it works, but that could have KILLED us had it been ruled a fumble...and before anyone trots out rules interpretations, we have all seen how the refs make the incorrect call on a consistent basis.

2. As was said in the game thread, get McCullers in the weight room to get some endurance up. Big man is still pushing the Texans center, but got gassed halfway to Houston.

3. Bell and Brown both need to stop their bullshit "First Down!" celebration. Do that **** after a TD.

4. Keisel at NT - I don't understand that at all. Granted, he's slower than he used to be, and we're using him in a lot of the ways we did Aaron Smith towards the end of his career, but a NT DaBeard is not.

5. Mitchell needs to wrap up RBs, not just hit them high. A few times he went to POP Foster, but just bounced off. Wrap it up.

6. Adams coming off the bench may have been a good move for him. Maybe that's what he needs. He still makes me want to scream when he's whiffing at the guy running past him, but I've gotten used to his consistent sucking.

7. Beachum getting injured would have destroyed us. What was the plan? Wallace was coming in...to play what? Granted, he was our only available OL, but how would that musical chairs have worked?

8. We need to stop putting Worilds in the middle of the D. Let the ****** rush the passer. That's what he does best.

9. When Shazier gets back, we're going to have a ton of speed.

10. Moats was getting after it on the first series...then was pulled for Deebo. SMH.

bloody fookin' hell....

Supe has become the voice of reason at SN.....

 

[Vader]

Not so sure that Ben is a HOF guy. He is not hot garbage either. Look at where his offense has been in scoring for much of the time he has been here. Good arguments can be made both for and against his selection and both have merit. Individual stats are just that stats, they don't win games. One of the few things Tomlin has ever said that I thought was spot on was I did not walk by 5 rushing titles on the way in here.

In efforts that were not needed we were still getting balls to Brown to keep his string of catches alive. Stats have been padded before and will again. That is not a knock on Brown the guy is one of the corner stones of this team and should be till he can no longer play. He more than anyone else is the guy that our offense has that worries the opposition.

Baseball has always been a game of stats football not as much. Most individual stats have now been turned into fodder for those that play fantasy football and as such have become meaningless. In looking at stats look at Marino, and Barry Sanders, those guys were very good at their positions and were arguably the best at their respective positions during their time in the game, yet their teams were not able to build around them and become champions.

Stats are in my opinion over rated as it relates to football.

The HOF has players in it just for individual stats. WTF did Moon ever win? He played well into his 40s and only won double digit games twice in 17 years. He never won more than 11 game in any season. He was less than a 59% passer and threw the ball over 6800 times. Hell he made a pro-bowl while throwing more picks than Tds.

So when the HOF starts kicking people out for not winning enough or the right games then I'll say Ben doesn't deserve it. But right now there are many HOFs that didn't win anything. They are in there for a variety of reasons including individual stats. So why should Ben be left out while others are in simply because of stats?

 

[F83]

bench Wheaton start Moore at SE and wheaton comes in trip and 4@ 5 wide sets.
DHB is a good decoy should try some screens to him.
We will really need Shazier vs Indy luckily Wayne is not gonna play according to rotoword, so that leaves them with
FL Hilton Se Nicks slot Moncrief.
Need Troy to help double TY and shazier can cover Bradshaw

 

[steelerscotty]

It still boggles the mind that some people want to trade Ben. Its so rare that a team goes from one great qb to another like the Colts have. The only other team i can think of right off hand was the 49ers going from Montana to Young. Finding a franchise qb is the hardest position to fill and i have no problem keeping Ben even if its for a year or 2 longer than most people would. For ***** sake, the guy is only 32! You want him gone? Fine, be prepared for another 20 years of these kinds of qb's:

2003 Tommy Maddox (16)
2002 Tommy Maddox (11) / Kordell Stewart (5) Tommy Maddox (2)
2001 Kordell Stewart (16) Kordell Stewart (2)
2000 Kordell Stewart (11) / Kent Graham (5)
1999 Kordell Stewart (12) / Mike Tomczak (4)
1998 Kordell Stewart (16)
1997 Kordell Stewart (16) Kordell Stewart (2)
1996 Mike Tomczak (15) / Jim Miller (1) Mike Tomczak (2)
1995 Neil O'Donnell (12) / Mike Tomczak (4) Neil O'Donnell (3)
1994 Neil O'Donnell (14) / Mike Tomczak (2) Neil O'Donnell (2)
1993 Neil O'Donnell (15) / Mike Tomczak (1) Neil O'Donnell (1)
1992 Neil O'Donnell (12) / Bubby Brister (4) Neil O'Donnell (1)
1991 Neil O'Donnell (8) / Bubby Brister (8)
1990 Bubby Brister (16)
1989 Bubby Brister (14) / Todd Blackledge (2) Bubby Brister (2)
1988 Bubby Brister (13) / Todd Blackledge (3)
1987 Mark Malone (12) / Steve Bono (3)
1986 Mark Malone (14) / Bubby Brister (2)
1985 Mark Malone (8) / David Woodley (6) / Scott Campbell (2)
1984 Mark Malone (9) / David Woodley (7)
1983 Cliff Stoudt (15) / Terry Bradshaw (1) Cliff Stoudt (1)

While a few of these guys were ok for a season or two, NONE OF THEM can hold a candle to Ben!

 

[Wingman]

The HOF has players in it just for individual stats. WTF did Moon ever win? He played well into his 40s and only won double digit games twice in 17 years. He never won more than 11 game in any season. He was less than a 59% passer and threw the ball over 6800 times. Hell he made a pro-bowl while throwing more picks than Tds.

So when the HOF starts kicking people out for not winning enough or the right games then I'll say Ben doesn't deserve it. But right now there are many HOFs that didn't win anything. They are in there for a variety of reasons including individual stats. So why should Ben be left out while others are in simply because of stats?

My point regarding Ben is that his stats are not that impressive either in some ways. Where has Ben's offense been as far as scoring for quite a while?, near the bottom of the league. It is not up to me to say Ben is in the hall or not my only point is stats do not tell the whole story. As to Ben others will decide if he is in or not it does not matter to me one way or the other. I like what he has brought to the team though with his play. As proof that stats do not tell the whole story and are sometimes just disregarded I offer the man listed below who is not in the hall of fame yet.

Jerome Bettis
Running Back
5-11, 243
Notre Dame
Played 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

• 13,662 Rush yards (6th in NFL history)
• Eight seasons with 1,000 Rush yds (T-5th in NFL history)
• First Rams rookie to rush for 1,000 yards since Eric Dickerson, 1983
• Rams leading rusher 1993-95
• Steelers leading rusher 1996-2001, 2003-04
• Steelers leader in total yards from scrimmage, 1996-2001
• Fifty 100-yd games with Steelers (franchise record)
• Six-time Pro Bowler
• Two-time First-Team All-Pro
• Fourteen players in NFL history have rushed for at least 12,000 yards. Of the 12 that are eligible for the Hall of Fame, Bettis is the only one not already enshrined.

 

[t-man]

It still boggles the mind that some people want to trade Ben. Its so rare that a team goes from one great qb to another like the Colts have. The only other team i can think of right off hand was the 49ers going from Montana to Young. Finding a franchise qb is the hardest position to fill and i have no problem keeping Ben even if its for a year or 2 longer than most people would. For ***** sake, the guy is only 32! You want him gone? Fine, be prepared for another 20 years of these kinds of qb's:

2003 Tommy Maddox (16)
2002 Tommy Maddox (11) / Kordell Stewart (5) Tommy Maddox (2)
2001 Kordell Stewart (16) Kordell Stewart (2)
2000 Kordell Stewart (11) / Kent Graham (5)
1999 Kordell Stewart (12) / Mike Tomczak (4)
1998 Kordell Stewart (16)
1997 Kordell Stewart (16) Kordell Stewart (2)
1996 Mike Tomczak (15) / Jim Miller (1) Mike Tomczak (2)
1995 Neil O'Donnell (12) / Mike Tomczak (4) Neil O'Donnell (3)
1994 Neil O'Donnell (14) / Mike Tomczak (2) Neil O'Donnell (2)
1993 Neil O'Donnell (15) / Mike Tomczak (1) Neil O'Donnell (1)
1992 Neil O'Donnell (12) / Bubby Brister (4) Neil O'Donnell (1)
1991 Neil O'Donnell (8) / Bubby Brister (8)
1990 Bubby Brister (16)
1989 Bubby Brister (14) / Todd Blackledge (2) Bubby Brister (2)
1988 Bubby Brister (13) / Todd Blackledge (3)
1987 Mark Malone (12) / Steve Bono (3)
1986 Mark Malone (14) / Bubby Brister (2)
1985 Mark Malone (8) / David Woodley (6) / Scott Campbell (2)
1984 Mark Malone (9) / David Woodley (7)
1983 Cliff Stoudt (15) / Terry Bradshaw (1) Cliff Stoudt (1)

While a few of these guys were ok for a season or two, NONE OF THEM can hold a candle to Ben!

And I'd be willing to bet you could take Ben's career numbers when he's done, and stack them up against the COMBINED numbers from this period, And they would look pretty good. Heck, if I get time later I might just do that, he might be ahead of them already.

 

[TDX27]

When you think about Ben, you also have to take into account that half to 2/3 of his career so far has been in a heavy run offense. His numbers won't be way up there. If he plays for say 3 to 5 more years the way this offense is heading, he will have not only, at least, 2 SB's but his stats will be in the top 20, if not higher, of all time. Plus, he is a totally different animal at QB with his scrambling and play making ability. At his best, there is no one playing today that can match him. It will be tough to keep him out of the Hall if that were the case.

 

[Vader]

Ben will finish his career with very good numbers. They won't be as good as Manning or Brady but almost nobody else's will be either. Nobody compared Bradshaw's numbers to keep him out. The fact is that Ben has 2 SB wins and 3 appearances. Add that to he'll have very good numbers. It's a shame Bettis isn't in but it will be a greater shame if Ben doesn't get in.

 

[TDX27]

The Bus will deservedly get in soon. Hopefully, this year or next. He definitely should be in.

 

[black and gold apex]

I would like to see the receiving crew run some good patterns and get open. All these throws to the side lines have to be perfect and we don't have that.

 

[TDX27]

Pagano was interviewed about the Steelers and Big Ben. He said Ben is a sure first ballot HOF'er. Interesting.