Iran. What will BO do

[hook]

You're assuming malfeasance, but if the people upstairs don't know what really happened because the people downstairs are covering their *****, the story is going to change over time as new facts emerge.

Pat Tillman. It took YEARS for the truth about that to come out because the soldiers, their NCOs, their command and lower level politicians ALL lied to cover their *****. By the time the story got to the White House it was beyond chopped and screwed.

I get that you guys want to blame Obama for the sun's path along the elliptic, gravity, and tidal encroachment, but sometimes **** just happens, man.

I don't blame Barry for it happening, I just can't believe how he handled the situation. He didn't even mention it in his SOTU speach. He didn't care. All he cared about was tooting his own horn. And to have Frankenkerry thanking the Iranians was just despicable. This happening less than 2 weeks after the Iranians launched missles in close proximity to one of our carriers. Then we give the back billions in frozen assets. I'd say 'Bammy is pretty much rewarding bad behavior.

 

[DBS1970]

I don't need to blame B-Rock for anything: but we need to know the truth about the inte national incedent that may have been intentionally sparked by the Iranians.

 

[Rod Farva]

Funny thing about right wingers: they tend to drag their views into every conversation.

As a recruiter you generally talk about the benefits. Job security, travel, vocational training, educational opportunities, and adventure. But in those days the war always came up. This is during the Code Pink days when it was on the news EVERY DAY. Guys would give us their philosophy. In the beginning it was thought that targeting guys who support the war would up the office numbers. Go after the guys already inclined to agree with policy. Turned out to be a losing strategy, since those guys always had some excuse as to why they couldn't sign a contract.

Meanwhile, most of the kids we signed up were apolitical guys who wanted the college money, or to just get out of town.

Since you seem to be such an expert, I'll ask you this question: in a country that's about half Republican/conservative why were we always short in those days? Why did we have to resort to calling people up to emergency service from the IRR? Why did we have to hand out SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLAR infantry bonuses? If you're right, and I'm bullshitting, how come there wasn't a line of war supporters around the block of every recruiter's office?

Where'd I claim this expertise? But since you asked the era you seem to be referencing had a pretty decent economy and pretty good employment numbers. That could help explain the lack of willing volunteers or the needed extra incentive. In addition, I don't buy your "my personal recruiting experience" as a very precise or even truthful method of demographic polling.

Lastly, I said that you having people "literally run away" from you was bullshit. And I'm sticking with it.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Lastly, I said that you having people "literally run away" from you was bullshit. And I'm sticking with it.

Of course you would. You live in a fantasy bubble. There are reasonable, thoughtful people in this forum. You aren't one of them.

 

[IndySteel]

. There are reasonable, thoughtful people in this forum. .

Thank you kindly!

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Thank you kindly!

I meant Supe

 

[Rod Farva]

Of course you would. You live in a fantasy bubble. There are reasonable, thoughtful people in this forum. You aren't one of them.

Loser. I've repeatedly asked "reasonable, thoughtful" questions of you which you duck, dip, dodge and duck. Try me....any subject, any time.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Loser. I've repeatedly asked "reasonable, thoughtful" questions of you which you duck, dip, dodge and duck. Try me....any subject, any time.

Ok.

Lets start with the question YOU dodged: If Republican/conservatives believed in this war why was This Man's Army short the entire war? The rotations these men had to endure were inhumane. Three, four, FIVE ******* tours in multiple combat theaters because we were so short handed. Where were those war supporters? Why where they shopping at the mall and playing Call Of Duty on the couch instead of serving the country and policy they CLAIMED to support? "The economy was better" is an excuse for neglecting your duty, not a reason.

 

[Rod Farva]

Ok.

Lets start with the question YOU dodged: If Republican/conservatives believed in this war why was This Man's Army short the entire war? The rotations these men had to endure were inhumane. Three, four, FIVE ******* tours in multiple combat theaters because we were so short handed. Where were those war supporters? Why where they shopping at the mall and playing Call Of Duty on the couch instead of serving the country and policy they CLAIMED to support? "The economy was better" is an excuse for neglecting your duty, not a reason.

I don't actually know the reason for any shortage of recruits. Neither do you. We can each speculate and look for reasons and mine of economics makes much more sense to me than yours that supposes "Republican/conservatives" are all chicken hawks.
Again, your personal, anecdotal evidence is completely unsupportable. You have nothing but the experiences you may or may not have actually had on which to base your entire argument.
You seem very bitter because you served and others didn't. That's too bad......be proud of your service. The majority of us are proud of ours.....but I don't denigrate anyone who didn't serve, nor do I consider myself superior to them especially because I DON'T know their reasons for not serving. And neither do you.

"The economy was better" is an excuse for neglecting your duty, not a reason..

So by your reasoning we all have the duty to serve, even when it's an all volunteer force. So all anti war democrat/liberals should all have served as well. Have you looked into those numbers? Had ANY of them served they would have taken quite a load off of those who did. Why no vitriol directed toward them in your rantings?

Now YOU go back through the threads and start answering the questions I and others have posited that you conveniently ignored. Until then, we're done.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

I don't actually know the reason for any shortage of recruits. Neither do you. We can each speculate and look for reasons and mine of economics makes much more sense to me than yours that supposes "Republican/conservatives" are all chicken hawks.
Again, your personal, anecdotal evidence is completely unsupportable. You have nothing but the experiences you may or may not have actually had on which to base your entire argument.
You seem very bitter because you served and others didn't. That's too bad......be proud of your service. The majority of us are proud of ours.....but I don't denigrate anyone who didn't serve, nor do I consider myself superior to them especially because I DON'T know their reasons for not serving. And neither do you.

Speak for yourself. I spent plenty of time talking to these little yellow bellied cowards. I know exactly why the Chicken Hawks didn't serve: they were scared.

"I have a family" was a common refrain. But most career soldiers have families. Most NCOs have families. But they serve anyway. That's a coward's excuse.

"I want to finish college first", this was also the Vietnam era coward's route. See Donald Trump. Thing is though, those guys didn't just sign a contract when they graduated, did they? Nope. They ran off to corporate America. Because playing Call of Duty and flipping your McMansion is clearly more patriotic than serving the policy you CLAIM to support.

It's not some mystery, as you are lamely attempting to claim. The excuses for Chicken Hawkism are well documented. Rush Limbaugh ducked service because he had a boil on his ***.

If you support a policy of national invasion with words but not deeds, YOU SIR ARE A COWARD.

100,000 people died in that conflict. Women. Little kids. Innocent people. And you think it's okay to vehemently support such violence while putting no skin in the game? While making no relevant sacrifice to justify such support? But I'm really wasting my breath here because you know all this. You know the Chicken Hawks are cowards. But if you admit that you have to burn bridges in your own back yard, and you lack the personal integrity to call a spade a spade.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Those ******** released 5 Americans as part of a prisoner swap, but are still holding Robert Levinson hostage since 2007. FBI agent. So we let them walk all over us on the nuke deal, pay them billions of dollars just for being asshats, release their prisoners, and just say thanks for taking our sailors hostage and releasing them. We need Trump.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Those ******** released 5 Americans as part of a prisoner swap, but are still holding Robert Levinson hostage since 2007. FBI agent. So we let them walk all over us on the nuke deal, pay them billions of dollars just for being asshats, release their prisoners, and just say thanks for taking our sailors hostage and releasing them. We need Trump.

5 people got to go home. I'm happy for them.

 

[IndySteel]

If you support a policy of national invasion with words but not deeds, YOU SIR ARE A COWARD.

.

That's pure bullshit. I can sure as hell be for war and supportive of our military without actually serving, you dumb ****. I'm 45, a small business owner and the sole supporter of my family. that doesn't make me a chicken hawk, I chose a different path in life. By your ****** up rationale, anyone who isn't in the military should be against military action. Unbelievably stupid. And any tax paying American has skin in the game.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

That's pure bullshit. I can sure as hell be for war and supportive of our military without actually serving, you dumb ****. I'm 45, a small business owner and the sole supporter of my family. that doesn't make me a chicken hawk, I chose a different path in life. By your ****** up rationale, anyone who isn't in the military should be against military action. Unbelievably stupid. And any tax paying American has skin in the game.

I strapped it on at 31 back in '05. No excuses.

The Army takes great care of families. No excuses.

If you're too old to sign a contract, fair enough. But I'm not talking about those people, am I?

In those days EVERYONE knew we were short handed. Everyone. And yet these military aged men who "supported" the war weaseled out of their duty in droves. That is inexcusable.

 

[DBS1970]

Ok.

Lets start with the question YOU dodged: If Republican/conservatives believed in this war why was This Man's Army short the entire war? The rotations these men had to endure were inhumane. Three, four, FIVE ******* tours in multiple combat theaters because we were so short handed. Where were those war supporters? Why where they shopping at the mall and playing Call Of Duty on the couch instead of serving the country and policy they CLAIMED to support? "The economy was better" is an excuse for neglecting your duty, not a reason.

My life experience was much different than what you are describing. I graduated high school at the tail end of the Reagan Era. Most of my friends who were blue collar conservatives joined up in one branch or the other. I met a guy in Germany that graduated two years ahead of me, he was rotating home as I was coming to the USAEUR ReppleDepple. None of my left wing DNC friends or acquaintances joined. I think the thing you over look is that few people want to join any service late into a war after the dead and wounded start coming back.Thats generally why conscriptions are ordered and a draft is instituted.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

My life experience was much different than what you are describing. I graduated high school at the tail end of the Reagan Era. Most of my friends who were blue collar conservatives joined up in one branch or the other. I met a guy in Germany that graduated two years ahead of me, he was rotating home as I was coming to the USAEUR ReppleDepple. None of my left wing DNC friends or acquaintances joined. I think the thing you over look is that few people want to join any service late into a war after the dead and wounded start coming back.Thats generally why conscriptions are ordered and a draft is instituted.

Not really different, and I should clarify: Most of my friends who grew up to become conservatives joined the service. Two Navy, one Marine, two Air Force, and I did the Army. Nobody saw fit to do the Coast Guard. In fact, the only Coast Guardsman I've ever met, I met at MEPS.

Outside of my close friends I know a **** ton of veterans. Most hate chicken hawks and draft dodgers more than me. Because they see ducking service while mouthing pro war rhetoric for what it is. I was totally against the draft for most of my life. My dad's generation (my old man was an 8 year Air Force volunteer during Nam) and friends got drafted and spoke of the horrors. But having seen how our guys were dragged though deployment after deployment while angry chicken hawks talked about how badass they were at Halo, my mind has changed. If we go to war there should be a lottery system with ZERO deferments. If feel the same way about the draft as I do about taxes: everybody should have equal skin in the game. That way, the politicians always have to be accountable.

 

[DBS1970]

I can agree with most of that. What I disagree with is the premise that you can't support the troops or Casus Beli without joining and going to war.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

I can agree with most of that. What I disagree with is the premise that you can't support the troops or Casus Beli without joining and going to war.

Ok. Question: in a situation where lives are at stake, what responsibility does one have to their country in order to maintain personal integrity?

Say the Chinese are landing at Santa Monica and mounting a beachhead. Is it okay for me to simply say, "I think they should be driven out" then get in my car and head for the Rockies? At what point am I obligated to defend my nation and square my words with my actions?

 

[Rod Farva]

Speak for yourself. I spent plenty of time talking to these little yellow bellied cowards. I know exactly why the Chicken Hawks didn't serve: they were scared.

"I have a family" was a common refrain. But most career soldiers have families. Most NCOs have families. But they serve anyway. That's a coward's excuse.

"I want to finish college first", this was also the Vietnam era coward's route. See Donald Trump. Thing is though, those guys didn't just sign a contract when they graduated, did they? Nope. They ran off to corporate America. Because playing Call of Duty and flipping your McMansion is clearly more patriotic than serving the policy you CLAIM to support.

It's not some mystery, as you are lamely attempting to claim. The excuses for Chicken Hawkism are well documented. Rush Limbaugh ducked service because he had a boil on his ***.

If you support a policy of national invasion with words but not deeds, YOU SIR ARE A COWARD.

100,000 people died in that conflict. Women. Little kids. Innocent people. And you think it's okay to vehemently support such violence while putting no skin in the game? While making no relevant sacrifice to justify such support? But I'm really wasting my breath here because you know all this. You know the Chicken Hawks are cowards. But if you admit that you have to burn bridges in your own back yard, and you lack the personal integrity to call a spade a spade.

I always "speak for myself." As for the rest of your diatribe.....I don't even know what the **** you're arguing anymore. You've gone from telling us that all the "young republican types" "literally ran away from you" (which I continue to not believe by the way) to telling me that I can't "admit" that "Chicken Hawks are cowards" because "I'd be burning bridges in my own back yard." You're losing it man. You are trying to assign things to me that I have neither said nor intimated and in so doing have become completely confused and irrationally acrimonious.
I'm not sure how we've arrived here but allow me to elucidate. I know full well that there are people who advocate for armed conflict who would never think of involving themselves, what you call chicken hawks. They are hypocrites of the worst kind and I NEVER said otherwise. As stated you are attempting to assign things to me that I have never said. But you can NOT lump every person who has never served into that category, something you seem wont to do.

As for my "lame" claim that the economy and budget cuts to the military and the military being much more choosey about those they recruit does not constitute any "mystery." They are verifiable facts that could very well have and likely did have an effect on military staffing numbers. I believe that most rational people would agree. Compares that with your increasingly agitated statements of anecdotes that attempt to "prove" that the military was short staffed because of "chicken hawk republican types" that exist mainly (and maybe only) in your memory. Game over man.

The Army takes great care of families. No excuses.

.

The armed forces take "ok" care of families. Desirable private sector job benefits take "great" care of them.

 

[DBS1970]

Ok. Question: in a situation where lives are at stake, what responsibility does one have to their country in order to maintain personal integrity?

Say the Chinese are landing at Santa Monica and mounting a beachhead. Is it okay for me to simply say, "I think they should be driven out" then get in my car and head for the Rockies? At what point am I obligated to defend my nation and square my words with my actions?

Here is the thing, In that situation where there was an actual invading force there would be very few people that would not volunteer to fight. What you find is in cases where we have protracted wars without clear objectives of victory like we have now support via enlistment wains. The population supports the concept of our country "winning" but they are unwilling to risk their lives for a vague concept.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

Marking the 37th anniversary of its Islamic revolution, Iran continued to publicly mock the 10 U.S. sailors its military forces detained in Iranian waters last month.

Groups of shackled Iranian men and at least one woman (many of them overweight) were paraded thought the streets of downtown Tehran as part of the celebration. Dressed in fatigues meant to depict those of U.S. sailors, the men had guns pointed at them while kneeling on the ground with their hands behind their heaD
http://abcnews.go.com/International/iran-mocks-us-sailors-revolution-day-parade/story?id=36861619

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Marking the 37th anniversary of its Islamic revolution, Iran continued to publicly mock the 10 U.S. sailors its military forces detained in Iranian waters last month.

Groups of shackled Iranian men and at least one woman (many of them overweight) were paraded thought the streets of downtown Tehran as part of the celebration. Dressed in fatigues meant to depict those of U.S. sailors, the men had guns pointed at them while kneeling on the ground with their hands behind their heaD
http://abcnews.go.com/International/iran-mocks-us-sailors-revolution-day-parade/story?id=36861619

This is the kind of **** that people are so ******* sick of taking, and why the in your face boldness of Trump is so appealing to many, including me.